Was Kurt Warner's Final pass attempt in SB XLIII a fumble or an incomplete pass?

[RAAZ227]

incomplete.

It was a great SB but, it was one sided!

[pjfootballer]

Incomplete pass. He had possession of the ball, his arm was going forward and he didn't have the empty hand.

[Taylor 36]

The referee and the head ref for the league have both said there was a quick review on the field.

I call BS.

The league dropped the ball there, not to mention to officiating last night was iffy at best.

I concur. You're about to crown the champion and you don't take the time to put the ref under the hood to review such a close call??? That is just plain wrong. If that had been the Redskins, EVERY person who thinks that play was fine and didn't need a review would have been out for blood.

[sableholic]

"The replay assistant in the replay booth saw it was clearly a fumble," Pereira told NBC. "The ball got knocked loose and was rolling in his hand before it started forward. He has to have total control."

It was a fumble guys, I'm sorry you feel otherwise but it was. Should they have taken more time out during the game to review it longer, yes, but the call was right.

[HEavyJumbo85]

"The replay assistant in the replay booth saw it was clearly a fumble," Pereira told NBC. "The ball got knocked loose and was rolling in his hand before it started forward. He has to have total control."

It was a fumble guys, I'm sorry you feel otherwise but it was. Should they have taken more time out during the game to review it longer, yes, but the call was right.

If someone on Arizona catches that "fumble" in the air and scores, you'd be perfectly content if the touchdown was taken away and the ball spoted where the fumble took place?

Honestly how clear is that?

Btw, Mike Pereria is an idiot, circa 2005 Mike Alstott "Clearly" crossing the goal line for the winning 2 point conversion. Pereria said it was absolutely a good score, no question about it, despite the elbow clearly being down on the 1. Oh that Mike Alstott and his 3 foot forearms.

[sableholic]

If someone on Arizona catches that "fumble" in the air and scores, you'd be perfectly content if the touchdown was taken away and the ball spoted where the fumble took place?

According to your rule you can't advance it so sure. THey should change that rule though.

[HEavyJumbo85]

Can't advance a fumble so sure.

But do you think in that situation that the officials would have let the guy score or no?

You think that they would've 100% bang bang blown that play dead and said forward fumble?

[HEavyJumbo85]

According to your rule you can't advance it so sure. THey should change that rule though.

Dave Casper Agrees with you

[sableholic]

But do you think in that situation that the officials would have let the guy score or no?

You think that they would've 100% bang bang blown that play dead and said forward fumble?

No I don't think they would have bang bang blown the play dead, but they might have overturned the touchdown. In that case I'd understand cause you can't overturn a rule in the middle of the game. Wouldn't be the first time a team got screwed by a rule that didn't make sense.

[HEavyJumbo85]

No I don't think they would have bang bang blown the play dead, but they might have overturned the touchdown. In that case I'd understand cause you can't overturn a rule in the middle of the game. Wouldn't be the first time a team got screwed by a rule that didn't make sense.

So you're saying it Would have gone to Review Though?

Why didn't it in this case? it's the same thing whether the guy catches the ball or whether it fell to the ground, still a fumble, but if a guy catches it they don't blow it dead because it was so close it could've been an incomplete pass?

Not so "clear" anymore is it?

Now tell me why it wasn't reviewd

[sableholic]

So you're saying it Would have gone to Review Though?

Why didn't it in this case? it's the same thing whether the guy catches the ball or whether it fell to the ground, still a fumble, but if a guy catches it they don't blow it dead because it was so close it could've been an incomplete pass?

Not so "clear" anymore is it?

Now tell me why it wasn't reviewd

? I said it should have been reviewed originally so I'm not sure how I'll be able to tell you why it wasn't reviewed.

[HEavyJumbo85]

? I said it should have been reviewed originally so I'm not sure how I'll be able to tell you why it wasn't reviewed.

sorry I guess. It just appeared that you were taking Mike Pereria's side of "clearly" a fumble and review wasn't needed. It "clearly" was needed.

[Bubble Screen]

New standard for determining plays. The look of the player. :doh:

There's no way he could have looked that way because the call had been a fumble and everything happened so fast he didn't know at what point he was hit.

Also, for whoever said that Warner is prone to that. What? Dropping a ball when hit during a throwing motion. Who isn't prone to that? Come on!

Dude, stop being such a wise guy. Don't you think if Warner felt it was incomplete that he would have been "contesting" the call? He didn't. Because he knew it was a fumble.

[Bubble Screen]

Who gives a crap? It should have been reviewed. I don't care if it wouldn't have been overturned. We have all watched games that they have reviewed meaningless plays in the final seconds to "make sure it was right". I have seen reviews of less questionable calls at the end of PRESEASON games.

This was the Super Bowl and the fans and players deserve the refs going under the hood regardless of what you think the outcome should, would, or will be.

If you would have read the whole thread you would have saw where I said it should have been reviewed, if it wasn't. Again, it was ruled a fumble on the field. And it wasn't gonna be overturned. So, what's the point? Obviously the refs felt like it wasn't worth reviewing. And in the end, they were correct. Some people just like to moan about something.

[Bubble Screen]

And what happens in the future if it happens to the Redskins or another team? A Super Bowl shouldn't be decided by bad calls.

There are bad calls in pretty much every game, every week. No call in this game affected the outcome. The Steelers were deserving of the win, as much as I hate to admit it. The Cards overcame any bad call(s) that you might have felt there were, and eventually ended up taking the lead with 2:00 to play. They basically left the Steelers too much time. And the Steelers took full advantage of it.

Again, I felt the last play should have been reviewed. But as it turns out, it wouldn't have mattered, since they got the call right.

[Old Bay]

Some people just like to moan about something.

In all fairness, this is a pretty big thing to moan about. And one that any football fan should be upset about. It's all fun and games until it happens to your team.

Of course the NFL will now say that it was the correct call. Otherwise this would be the Super Bowl with the asterisk next to it. If they had actually reviewed the play on the field, which didn't happen, and they still got it wrong by the standards of most people, at least it would've been settled on the field, so to speak.

As it is, its grounds for a mad conspiracy theory and only magnifies the pattern of other shoddy calls throughout the game.

[Passizle]

That was clearly a fumble. The defender got there when Warners arm was at its apex. That is when the ball is jarred loose. Just beacuase him arm moves forward with a loose ball, does not make it an incomplete pass. Its not even close. That is a fumble on any day. Easy call IMO.

[SkinsFTW]

I thought that one official called it an incomplete pass and one called it a fumble?

Then they never reviewed it. How you review a play from the field is beyond me, especially when the team cant challenge the play with under 2 mins left.

Considering the time left in the game though, Warner should have seen that nobody was open and thrown it away. He was running around back there with the ball for a while with under 15 seconds left. He should have gotten rid of it and used the clock to get 2 more chances.

[81artmonk]

That was clearly a fumble. The defender got there when Warners arm was at its apex. That is when the ball is jarred loose. Just beacuase him arm moves forward with a loose ball, does not make it an incomplete pass. Its not even close. That is a fumble on any day. Easy call IMO.

Unfortunetly the web doesn't have as clear a view of the play as was on HD tv. The ball was never loose. Warner got his arm away from the defender and the defenders hit changed the trajectery of warners arm. after the hit, warner still had the ball in his hands and pushed the ball forward making it an incomplete pass.

Let's discuss the tuck rule. The NFL cannot have it both ways, which is the case here. What about the empty hand?? There wasn't one. It's appearant that the NFL is covering it's hind quarters here. There was no review.

There wasn't enough time to review the play on any clock. There was a conference on the field and they make the choice to give it to the steelers. So to save face the NFL is holding on to the story of it was reviewed and the refs made the right call.

If they don't do this, this tarnishes the Superbowl. Gives the refs, with an already shady past this season, more bad publicity. puts an question mark on this superbowl, and lessens the steelers historic win. With all that working against the cards, do you acually think the NFL is going to back track and say they 'MAY' have blown the call??

Let's not even get into the santonio Holmes TD, which wasn't a TD?? Optical illusion. Caught the ball, but his left foot was behind his right and never touched the ground. Unless his left foot is a good 6 inches longer than his right.

Let's talk about all the calls the refs never gave the steelers for blatant fouls. I don't normally believe in conspirecies, but this superbowl really felt as if everyone wanted teh historic 6th win more than the never won lowly cards. Even the announcing was more favorable to the steelers.

IMO it's just sad that this game wasn't decided by play but rather outside sources neither team had control of.

[Passizle]

Unfortunetly the web doesn't have as clear a view of the play as was on HD tv. The ball was never loose. Warner got his arm away from the defender and the defenders hit changed the trajectery of warners arm. after the hit, warner still had the ball in his hands and pushed the ball forward making it an incomplete pass.

Let's discuss the tuck rule. The NFL cannot have it both ways, which is the case here. What about the empty hand?? There wasn't one. It's appearant that the NFL is covering it's hind quarters here. There was no review.

There wasn't enough time to review the play on any clock. There was a conference on the field and they make the choice to give it to the steelers. So to save face the NFL is holding on to the story of it was reviewed and the refs made the right call.

If they don't do this, this tarnishes the Superbowl. Gives the refs, with an already shady past this season, more bad publicity. puts an question mark on this superbowl, and lessens the steelers historic win. With all that working against the cards, do you acually think the NFL is going to back track and say they 'MAY' have blown the call??

Let's not even get into the santonio Holmes TD, which wasn't a TD?? Optical illusion. Caught the ball, but his left foot was behind his right and never touched the ground. Unless his left foot is a good 6 inches longer than his right.

Let's talk about all the calls the refs never gave the steelers for blatant fouls. I don't normally believe in conspirecies, but this superbowl really felt as if everyone wanted teh historic 6th win more than the never won lowly cards. Even the announcing was more favorable to the steelers.

IMO it's just sad that this game wasn't decided by play but rather outside sources neither team had control of.

I disagree with you on that. I saw the game in HD on my TV. I though it was a fumble there too. His arm is empty when going forward and what kept the bal going in a forward direction was his forearm. Why else do you think the ball only sailed about 3 yards before it hit the ground. It was neer tipped.

On a side note. I cant believe your a Stryper fan. I have not met too many people out there that like that band.

Oz Fox is THE man! And Sweet has some set of pipes. Probably THE BEST act I have ever heard live.

[gkekoa]

For anyone claiming that it was a fumble go back and look again. While his arm was hit prior to moving forward, the ball was still in his hand and coming forward when the ball was released.

[ozskin]

I couldnt believe they didnt reveiw it. They review plays in the last 2 minutes if there is even the slightest chance it was wrong most of the time. To not do it in a 4 point game.....THAT'S THE FREAKIN SUPERBOWL!!!!!.....i dont understand.

[Passizle]

For anyone claiming that it was a fumble go back and look again. While his arm was hit prior to moving forward, the ball was still in his hand and coming forward when the ball was released.

The ball was not in his hand when moving foward. It was already falling and he hit it with hisforarm... hence the reason the ball did not go sailing, but instead went about three yards and hit the turf.

Just like a WR... he would have need to maintain control of the ball throughout the motion until the arm was going forward. He did not. The was hit with his arm going backward... the apex to be exact, then the ball was hit, propelling it into his own wrist/forearm. At that exact point, the ball is a live ball. A fumble...

[@DCGoldPants]

I think it was close....but a pass. I also think if it were Ben in that situation. It might be reviewed and overturned. Just saying.

[Mooka]

By interpretation, a pass begins when the passer -- with possession of ball -- starts to bring his hand forward. If ball strikes ground after this action has begun, play is ruled an incomplete pass. If passer loses control of ball prior to his bringing his hand forward, play is ruled a fumble.

If you freeze it right after Warner winds back I think you can see his arm moving forward for a split second before he's hit. Its really hard to tell for sure.

I also think the Steelers got to him with a 3 man rush and people should stop crying. The calls wouldn't have seemed so lopsided if the Cardinals didn't have to hold every play to contain the Steeler defense.