Was Kurt Warner's Final pass attempt in SB XLIII a fumble or an incomplete pass?

[HeHateMe]

Incomplete pass.

Officiating pretty one-sided all game.

Pittsburgh Steals another one.

Shame too. Arizona played a heckuva ball game.

[CRobi21]

It was a very close game and bad calls may very well have decided it. This game had the 3rd most penalties in Super Bowl history at 18. 11 of those penalties were called against the Cardinals, which cost them 106 yards.

Maybe they shouldn't have committed the penalties?

[Ron78]

Maybe they shouldn't have committed the penalties?

I think you missed the argument by myself and others that some of those calls may have been bad.

[Muzzah]

It was a fumble. The ball was out of his hand before he swung his hand forwards. A fumble batted forwards is still a fumble. Holding onto the ball that long wasn't a great idea. Nor was locking into one guy and throwing an int that gets returned 100 yards for a TD at the end of the half.

Give up an easy 10 or possibly 14 point swing. And they lost by 4. Not to mention how terrible the defense was on that last drive where they just let guys run free and put no pressure on Roethlisberger. They should have won, but deserved to lose.

I think you missed the argument by myself and others that some of those calls may have been bad.

Yep, I hate that officiating crew. It all goes back to Week 2. Chargers vs Broncos. Ed Hochuli was going to do the Super Bowl this year, but on that botched call he was removed from the Super Bowl duty. And this clown was the replacement. He is by and far my least favorite Official. Calls games so ticky tacky and he is just so annoying to listen to.

It's been made aware to me that:

On the INT return, the Steelers had an illegal block in the back.

On the Santonio Holmes TD he used the ball as a prop (15 yard penalty.) Guess he threw that out the window for the Steelers too.

James Harrison was allowed to punch a guy on the ground in the back of the neck. Then when the player was sitting on his knees he hits him again. But the play didn't give the Cards any real benefit as it gave them 0.5 yards and it was considered "after the change of possession" so they didn't get a first down (So, I guess once the ball leaves the Punter's foot is a change of possession). But for stumbling into a holder the Steelers got another 3 attempts at a touchdown, yet this penalty occurs after the ball is kicked (guess there's no Change of Possession there?)

^ That was probably more just of the rules being lame than the official being a whackjob.

Harrison should have been ejected from the game after that though. No way he should have been able to stay in the game.

[Sticksboi05]

It was an incomplete pass. Yeah he was hit with the ball but it didn't start moving until his arm had a forward motion.

No review, that was unacceptable.

[ldysknzfn1]

Thought it was a fumble..but I'm no ref. (Thank God..lol)

[praise_gibbs]

Clearly an incomplete pass. I am sure if you can get your hands on some game tape, you'd see about 5 different quarterbacks have that SAME thing happen to them and have it called an incomplete pass. I guarantee if that were Tom Brady, it would have been called incomplete.

I would not be shocked to see this same thing happen again next season with a different call on the field.

Sadly, the calls the refs make are all based on their perception of the NFL rules. Different people perceive things differently. If Terry McAulay didn't ref that game, you'd probably see a different call.

[HEavyJumbo85]

When Warner's arm goes forward, for it to have been a fumble he would have had to have the "empty hand" which he clearly didn't. That was an incomplete pass by definition of the rule. For those of you saying it was a fumble, let's say hypothetically that there was a running back where that ball landed and he caught it then ran it into the endzone, very unlikely but bear with me. There is another rule that pertains to forward fumbles in the last two minutes of a game, i.e. the "Holy Roller" rule that says forward fumbles can not be advanced on 4th down or in the last 2 minutes of a half, do you think the referees would have blown that play dead and said forward fumble? or completed pass, touchdown Cardinals? Seriously think about that and then tell me why there wasn't at least a review.

By the way there's no chance in hell they call that a fumble if someone catches it even though it would have been according to a lot of you and that's the rule that would've had to be enforced if that was truly a fumble. That ball was incomplete, I know it, you know it, the league knows it, but they'd lose all credibility if they admitted they made a horrible mistake that may have cost a team a Super Bowl. It's a shame that play wasn't reviewed.

[Big Weirdo]

If that were Tom Brady or Peyton Manning I bet it gets reviewed.

[HEavyJumbo85]

If that were Tom Brady or Peyton Manning I bet it gets reviewed.

If the shoe was on the other foot that play gets reviewed 1000 times out of 1000. Pittsburgh gets the breaks because they're Pittsburgh. The good teams with the reputations get the calls, the bad teams/non superstar players don't. It might've seemed like bad sportsmanship, but as soon as they called it a fumble, if I were Wisenhunt I would've been in that official's face to make damn sure it got reviewed, i would want a reason why that was a fumble, I'd want him to quote me a damn rule, at least put up a fight to try and get a review or him to reconsider...something. Letting Pitt run out there and kneel down real quick was a bad coaching move in my mind. But I guess hindsight is what it is, he was probably in shock and I'm not sure, "get the play reviewed" was the 1st thought on his mind. I do know one thing though, if he's ever in a situation like that again, he'll get his review, trust me on that.

[Symbol]

The worst part of this is, the Super Bowl will go down as one of the top 5 most controversial Super Bowls all because of the last play not being reviewed. Did I think it was an incomplete pass? Actually I did in the since that I believed it was the "tuck" rule. On the replays that I've seen, his hand was also heading back to his body at the end of the play as the ball leaves his hand at the end. I won't go into the empty hand or did he have possession, I'm speaking when the ball is no longer in momentum with Warner's hand. With this it would have been the tuck rule and therefore an incomplete pass.

I've long said and agreed with many others that the current NFL referees should be fired or given an option of quitting their off season jobs and becoming full time NFL referees. There would no longer be this "opinion" of the rules. During the off season these employees would be studying the current rules and learning any new or updated rules. In this case, these stupid mistakes would be dramatically reduced.

[Bubble Screen]

Yea that's definately a fumble.

All you had to do was look at Warner's face to know it was a fumble. He knew it. You could tell by his expression. He didn't even argue it. If it wasn't reviewed, it should have been. I don't think anyone will argue that. But it was a fumble. And that's what was ruled on the field. No way it would have been overturned. I think alot of people lose sight of this fact. If there's any question about a play, more times than not they are going with the call on the field.

[Bubble Screen]

That is not true. Look at every angle in the you tube video I posted. It's clear that his arm was moving forward before he was even touched.

Again, Ron. It was ruled a fumble on the field. If they review it, no way that play is getting overturned. Its done, man.

[rebornempowered]

All you had to do was look at Warner's face to know it was a fumble. He knew it. You could tell by his expression. He didn't even argue it. If it wasn't reviewed, it should have been. I don't think anyone will argue that. But it was a fumble. And that's what was ruled on the field. No way it would have been overturned. I think alot of people lose sight of this fact. If there's any question about a play, more times than not they are going with the call on the field.

New standard for determining plays. The look of the player. :doh:

There's no way he could have looked that way because the call had been a fumble and everything happened so fast he didn't know at what point he was hit.

Also, for whoever said that Warner is prone to that. What? Dropping a ball when hit during a throwing motion. Who isn't prone to that? Come on!

[rebornempowered]

Again, Ron. It was ruled a fumble on the field. If they review it, no way that play is getting overturned. Its done, man.

Who gives a crap? It should have been reviewed. I don't care if it wouldn't have been overturned. We have all watched games that they have reviewed meaningless plays in the final seconds to "make sure it was right". I have seen reviews of less questionable calls at the end of PRESEASON games.

This was the Super Bowl and the fans and players deserve the refs going under the hood regardless of what you think the outcome should, would, or will be.

[Ron78]

Again, Ron. It was ruled a fumble on the field. If they review it, no way that play is getting overturned. Its done, man.

And what happens in the future if it happens to the Redskins or another team? A Super Bowl shouldn't be decided by bad calls.

[HSW]

Good call. It was a fumble. I am not a fan of eithor team but I think the

refs did a great job.

[kevinklein]

It was a fumble, but obviously deserved a review.

[Old Bay]

I thought it was incomplete, honestly. If not, then fine, but it still deserved a review at the least.

It's been made aware to me that:

On the INT return, the Steelers had an illegal block in the back.

On the Santonio Holmes TD he used the ball as a prop (15 yard penalty.) Guess he threw that out the window for the Steelers too.

James Harrison was allowed to punch a guy on the ground in the back of the neck. Then when the player was sitting on his knees he hits him again. But the play didn't give the Cards any real benefit as it gave them 0.5 yards and it was considered "after the change of possession" so they didn't get a first down (So, I guess once the ball leaves the Punter's foot is a change of possession). But for stumbling into a holder the Steelers got another 3 attempts at a touchdown, yet this penalty occurs after the ball is kicked (guess there's no Change of Possession there?)

Man, I was just bringing up all these points with a co-worker earlier. I particularly don't understand the personal fouls and how the Steelers were gifted the 1st down but then maintained possession on the 6 inch line.

[HEavyJumbo85]

Said it before but I really want to see what the "it was a fumble" people really believe would have happend here.

If you're saying it was a fumble, what if there was a running back where that ball landed and he caught it then ran it into the endzone, very unlikely but bear with me. There is another rule that pertains to forward fumbles in the last two minutes of a game, i.e. the "Holy Roller" rule that says forward fumbles can not be advanced on 4th down or in the last 2 minutes of a half, do you think the referees would have blown that play dead and said forward fumble? or completed pass, touchdown Cardinals? Seriously think about that and then tell me why there wasn't at least a review.

Would anyone here still be arguing that he fumbled it if that scenerio played out?

[#98QBKiller]

Between the booth not reviewing that play and the refs not calling a 15 yard penalty on the "salt shaker" celebration where Holmes clearly used that ball as a prop, I kind of feel bad for the Cards.

[Parker]

The refs did a bad job from beginning to end.

[81artmonk]

The worst part of this is, the Super Bowl will go down as one of the top 5 most controversial Super Bowls all because of the last play not being reviewed. Did I think it was an incomplete pass? Actually I did in the since that I believed it was the "tuck" rule. On the replays that I've seen, his hand was also heading back to his body at the end of the play as the ball leaves his hand at the end. I won't go into the empty hand or did he have possession, I'm speaking when the ball is no longer in momentum with Warner's hand. With this it would have been the tuck rule and therefore an incomplete pass.

What I find even more surprising is that none of ESPN or any other sports talk is even touching on the subject of the controversy. No talk about the bad officiating, no talk about the no review on that last play, nothing.

If you watch the play, the steelers hit the ball in warners hand. Warner keeps control of it. after the steeler player hits it and his hand comes off of the ball, warner continues forward with ball still in hand and pushes the ball forward. Unless the defensive player knocks the ball loose and makes warner lose control than it's an incomplete pass, any way you slice it.

Either way, it should have been reviewed. Most of the game, it appeared to me that the powers that be wanted the steelers to win. The game was a little funny to me in how things got called.

[novaman]

It was a fumble because We are talking about the Cards and Warner here.

Now if it had been Tom Brady and the Pats, that would have been an incomplete pass.

['Skins_&_'Stons]

I have seen reviews of less questionable calls at the end of PRESEASON games.

That about sums it up for me. It is absolutely inexcusable that the call wasn't reviewed. What makes it 10 times worse is that the NFL is saying that there was "a quick review" on the field.

What a bunch of donkey crap.

I know that if it were the Skins, I would be nursing a broken hand and would be at Best Buy right now shopping for a new TV.