Was Kurt Warner's Final pass attempt in SB XLIII a fumble or an incomplete pass?

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

It doesnt really matter, but it definitely should have been reviewed.

[LeftCoast Skinz FAN]

I think they should have received one more shot. There would have only been 3 or 5 seconds left on the clock anyway. That is just one more try at the end zone.

But all in all, a good game!!!

[CRobi21]

I can't believe anyone would call that a fumble.

I don't see where the controversy is, the ball is knocked out of his hand before his arm is coming forward in his throwing motion.

:2cents:

[kubstix]

I wish it would've ended different other than 1 play. It was pretty apparent the year the Seahawks played Pittsburgh.......alot of calls wen't Pittsburghs way. Just sayin.......I really can't tell if the ball was out on forward movement, but the ball went forward 'as the so called fumble'. This obviously means Kurt's arm had to have been going in some kind of forward motion....not just throwing air like someone suggested. Questionaible Super Bowl call.

[Ron78]

I don't see where the controversy is, the ball is knocked out of his hand before his arm is coming forward in his throwing motion.

:2cents:

That is not true. Look at every angle in the you tube video I posted. It's clear that his arm was moving forward before he was even touched.

[CRobi21]

That is not true. Look at every angle in the you tube video I posted. It's clear that his arm was moving forward before he was even touched.

I've watched it about 5 times now. Yes his body is in fact moving forward, with his arm being attached to his body, of course it's moving forward.

But the ball is knocked out when he is ****ing back to throw it deep, well before moving forward, therefore, it being a fumble.

Al Michaels even said the booth looked at it before the Steelers snapped the ball the next play and said it was a clear fumble.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Does "arm moving forward" consist of his elbow hitting starting the forward motion? I believe it does, and he absolutely had possession at that point.

Besides that play, the Cardinals were also ****ed our of 30 yards on that last possession. 15 for the Lebronesque celebration and 15 for that unsportsmanlike which should have been tacked on as they retained possession.

[brdawk20]

Can't agree. As I said, I have it at home, saw it many times on slow-mo, and Warner did not have control of the ball before his arm was in forward motion. When Warner winds up, there is a lot of movement in his elbow and shoulder, but the arm itself is not moving forward before he loses control of the ball. He basically forces a bobbling ball--not under his control--forward.

I live a mile and a half from NFL Films and have a few friends working there. I'm going to get in there and see if I can get a good look at that from the film they have. I've been able to do this before, so maybe I can again. I do believe they got the call right, but was close enough for a more comprehensive review.

Of course, if it was the Cowturds and Romo sits to pee was throwing, there would have been a 5 minute review in Jerruh's favor...

[Birdlives]

Dont know what youre watching, but thats clearly a fumble. He lost control of the ball before his arm is moving forward. Should it have been reviewed? Definitely, mainly just to shut people up though.

[ljs]

OK, I voted that it deserved a review... Not because I'm not certain, but because it deserved a review. I believe it was a fumble, but you HAVE to review it... The Referees would have been a deciding factor in the game if not for Cardinals challenges... Heck, so many ticky-tack fouls were called on the Cardinals as it was.

the Seahawk fans are now saying, "See, we told you a few years ago...."

one of the worst officiating games I've seen, chalk it up with the rest of the year. I've heard a few people say the same thing....football officiating sucks ass.

[REEGSKINS]

Incomplete pass. I could not believe it wasn't reviewed by the booth.

same here.

[authentic]

Incomplete pass. I could not believe it wasn't reviewed by the booth.

me either. it was definately and incomplete pass.

[authentic]

Hmm, hard to say. I replayed it in slow-mo a few times. It looks like that before his arm was going foward, he lost control of the ball due to the hit. I believe he just pushed the ball foward as best he could to get the incomplete call. Damn smart of him to do so IMO. What else could he do?

I am surprised it wasn't reviewed, even though it "was" reviewed on the field, lol.

yeah, how many times has that happen. Well what comes to mind is the AFC championship game between the Pats. and the Raiders when Tom Brady fumbled the ball but they called it an incomplete pass. And in 2005, when we played the Broncos and it was clear that Jake Plumber fumbled the ball and they called an incomplete pass. So i'm sorry but the whole pushing the ball argument is rubbish to me, he still had possession.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

After watching a few different clips from different angles about 5x each, it was definitely an incomplete pass.

Make a throwing motion with your arm. You'll notice that when it is going forward your forearm snaps back in the beginning of the forward motion, and that's when Warner was hit. That was incomplete.

[Hitman#21]

It was a fumble, Warner is prone to it happening and it happened.

[Ron78]

I've watched it about 5 times now. Yes his body is in fact moving forward, with his arm being attached to his body, of course it's moving forward.

But the ball is knocked out when he is ****ing back to throw it deep, well before moving forward, therefore, it being a fumble.

Al Michaels even said the booth looked at it before the Steelers snapped the ball the next play and said it was a clear fumble.

I don't know what you're looking at, and I don't know if you really reviewed the video I posted. The video with Al Michaels' voice over on it is lacking an angle that is shown in the video I posted.

[Ron78]

Can't agree. As I said, I have it at home, saw it many times on slow-mo, and Warner did not have control of the ball before his arm was in forward motion. When Warner winds up, there is a lot of movement in his elbow and shoulder, but the arm itself is not moving forward before he loses control of the ball. He basically forces a bobbling ball--not under his control--forward.

I live a mile and a half from NFL Films and have a few friends working there. I'm going to get in there and see if I can get a good look at that from the film they have. I've been able to do this before, so maybe I can again. I do believe they got the call right, but was close enough for a more comprehensive review.

Of course, if it was the Cowturds and Romo sits to pee was throwing, there would have been a 5 minute review in Jerruh's favor...

I really don't know what you people are looking at. It's far more clear that Warmer's arm was moving forward than it was with Brady in the championship game against the Raiders.

[hail2skins]

The league definitely short-changed the fans by not taking a closer look at it. I don't know if it would've made a difference. Personally, I think, given what I've seen recently in the league, that more times than not its probably called an incomplete pass. And hell, we already had seen one instance earlier in the game where it was CLEARLY an incomplete pass and the refs ruled it a fumble on the field before it was overturned.

Having said that, did the Cards ever say what the plan was on that play anyway? I was thinking that when they had the ball on the Pitt 45 with 15 seconds left that it was hail mary time, and that Warner should've rolled to one side of the field and aired it out. Do you think that was the intention, and #56 on the Steelers somehow disrupted that, or what? It just seemed like Warner was taking his sweet time back there on that play.

[Area51]

It seemed like an incomplete pass and the fact that they supposedliy gave it a "quick review" was absolute b.s. It was sickening to watch the refs throughout the entire game, really.

By now it is obvious that the refs always favor the Steelers(who play dirty at times i.e. James Harrison NOT being thrown out of the game during the punt) or the Cowboys.

It's just like the NBA and the Lakers.

IMO, this issue is bigger than that one play. The fans and journalists should call out the damn league for the b.s. calls and non-calls that Cowboys and Steelers seem to always get. Getting lucky is one thing, but getting lucky time after time again is bull-****ing-****.

[BigRay]

It's hard to say but it should have never came down to that anyway, I mean you just scored and you had all the momentum. If you are a championship team you are suppose to cease the moment there is no way you should let a team drive 80 yds down the field on you if you are a championship team.

[33]

That video does not make things any easier to tell, imo, which leads me to be more perplexed that there was no booth review.

I don't know how anyone can say that play was clearly a fumble or an incomplete pass. There is no question that Warners arm is going forward as the ball gets lofted, but it seems unclear whether he is hit before he's going forward and if he loses control of the ball.

[DaveMason]

Yeah. Looked like an incomplete pass to me. I'm not sure if there is enough undisputable evidence to actually overturn the call on the field, but it sure is close. It was stunning that the play was not reviewed.

It is even more stunning to hear this BS about a "quick review". Come on, NFL. Do you really expect us to believe that? I have never seen a ref review a play--even the most obvious calls--without spending at least two or three minutes under the hood.

I honestly don't hate the Steelers...I'll admit that I was rooting for the Cardinals, but I really don't have anything against Pittsburgh. I just thought the calls were horrible. And I thought they were horrible in the Steelers/Seahawks game from a few years back, too...although it wouldn't have mattered since the Steelers were so much better in that game.

It sucks that the refs are so blatantly pro-Steelers in an evenly matched game like this one.

[Ron78]

Yeah. Looked like an incomplete pass to me. I'm not sure if there is enough undisputable evidence to actually overturn the call on the field, but it sure is close. It was stunning that the play was not reviewed.

It is even more stunning to hear this BS about a "quick review". Come on, NFL. Do you really expect us to believe that? I have never seen a ref review a play--even the most obvious calls--without spending at least two or three minutes under the hood.

I honestly don't hate the Steelers...I'll admit that I was rooting for the Cardinals, but I really don't have anything against Pittsburgh. I just thought the calls were horrible. And I thought they were horrible in the Steelers/Seahawks game from a few years back, too...although it wouldn't have mattered since the Steelers were so much better in that game.

It sucks that the refs are so blatantly pro-Steelers in an evenly matched game like this one.

It was a very close game and bad calls may very well have decided it. This game had the 3rd most penalties in Super Bowl history at 18. 11 of those penalties were called against the Cardinals, which cost them 106 yards.

[IbleedBnG83]

The ball began coming out of his hands before his arm went forward. But I believe the rule is it must be an empty hand. Therefore it should have been an incomplete pass.

[81artmonk]

It was clearly an incomplete pass. He had the ball hit, but he never lost control of the ball until he pushed it forward and the ball came out.

I certianly can't believe it wasn't reviewed. It was almost as if the powers that be wanted the Steelers to win. the whole game was chalk with bad reffing.

Holmes TD with 2 minutes left wasn't a td. He never had two feet down. That ruffing the passer call on the Cards was bogus. too many bad calls for a superbowl crew. \

The NFL should be ashamed of themselves, and really need to get better reffing.