Pittsburgh Steelers in Comparison to the Washington Redskins

[Smoot Point Really]

Both there lines kickd the crap out of our pisspoor lines

They had 7 sacks in the game and we had 5... And we were the team that was forced to pass the ball to try to catch up. They ran the ball 29 times for 62 yards and we ran the ball 15 times for 60 yards. The game was not won on the line of scrimmage. It was won on the sidelines and by our mistakes (blocked punt, Carlos dropped INT)...

You realize they had only 27 pass attempts and we had 5 sacks. On the other hand, we passed the ball 43 times and they had 7 sacks.

[Chief skin]

I dont understand dannydumbass if he is or was a Skins fan like he says then he saw what dominant lines did for the Skins during the glory days. Fast forward to present day he looks at the lines we have today and it jumps out at you, you cant protect your QB, your star RB cant run consistently, ball control is nonexistent. Our Dline cant pressure the QB, let alone sack him, we get the ball run down our throats, cant stop 3rd down conversions consistently. Then you play teams like the Steelers, Ravens, that have good lines and you get MANAHANDLED. The problem is crystal clear so why the hell doesnt this front office FIX THIS BASIC PROBLEM.:doh::doh:

[e16bball]

James Harrison

To me he's the major difference. Obviously they have better players than just Harrison, but it's the fact that could get someone like that undrafted is the difference. We don't seem to have a front office that can spot that kind of talent. Horton was a good late pick but he'll never be to that level.

I think you may be attributing a little too much credit for "finding" Harrison to the Steelers, just as people attribute a little too much credit for "finding" Brady to the Patriots.

Harrison is an amazing player, and he's worked out great for the Steelers. But let's not try to convince ourselves that this is something the Steelers saw from day one. They cut Harrison twice, let him go to the rival Ravens, and nearly allowed him to retire from the sport. If they were SO very sharp and in tune with Harrison's potential, they would have hoarded him like gold. And they didn't.

It's great that they found a guy with these tools, but a story like Harrison's is literally one in a thousand. That's largely luck, in my opinion, not just pure superiority in the front office.

Yeah, but that may also be a function of Ben's playing style. He holds the ball too long.

This is true. But still, I don't care how long the QB holds the ball, the OL allowing the QB to be sacked or forced to scramble once every 10 drop-backs is not what one would consider A DOMINANT LINE.

They had a dominating OL at one point, but that time is past. You'll see them make a strong effort to address this situation this offseason, for sure.

[Dance04]

Their players stick around... They have continuity... That's the difference.

Do you think last year they thought replacing Plaxico Burress with Nate Washington was a good idea?

Yes, and continuity starts from the top down. 3 coaches in history.

As for Plax, they replaced him with Santonio Holmes, not Nate Washington. and I'm POSITIVE they did not miss him because they won the SB the following year.

One thing though, they did pay Hines Ward to stay. He is a classy person (albeit a bit of a dirty player) as opposed to Buress, who is just a scumbag.

There should be no problem to pay the players who deserve it. Just like a certain Safety they locked up long term.

They make a habit of cutting their "core" guys. Porter may win DPOY this year for Miami. The Jets line was much improved this year. It's what they do.

They may have been average in the 90's, but they were never once a team you looked forward to playing. Especially not in Pitt.

Harrison already won DPOY.

And you are right. They may not have been the greatest team every year, but every year you hated playing them.

Another huge point is continuity as pointed out earlier.

Getting a strong coaching staff and strong FO is the first and foremost important piece. Everyone needs to be on the same page in terms of team building philosophy.

Then you have a good coaching staff which is able to stay in tact for years so the new players continually are able to get on pace with an already capable veteran team that knows the system well. Then when a coach leaves, you can hire within and keep continuity.

Best post in thread. (outside of the original of course!)

I did; you did a great job of compiling this info and giving us something constructive to discuss.

Thanks Pound. Similar to your thread about Carlos. Concrete evidence and facts to support your claims.

[IbleedBnG83]

Redskins #24 5.0 average per offensive play

Steelers #25 4.9

Although the O line improved at year's end, Big Ben was pounded for much of the year.

This year was admittedly one of the worst for the Steelers OL. I posted it earlier. But how many years has that OL been dominant? When Big Ben went down and Leftwich came in, how effective were we at getting to him?

Again, look at the other side of the ball. Dominant defense is able to put up points and cause turnovers. Its won on both sides.

[Harwich Hog]

I love the Steelers franchise ethic. I really do. But it would be a mistake for the Redskins to try and emulate it in my opinion.

We don't have Dick LeBeau. We have Greg Blache. That's not to say Greg Blache isn't a very capable defensive coordinator. He is. He's just a different breed with a different style. I'd like to see us give him a highish pick to work with (beit DL or LB) but other than that we have a very capable defence.

I think if the Redskins want to build a franchise to rival the Steelers there's no point copying them. We have our own Dick LeBeau - and by that I don't mean some dude with a penchant for a zone-blitz scheme, I mean someone old-school who knows how to coach. Joe Bugels.

Start giving this man some 1st and 2nd round draft picks!! Let him rebuild a line from foundation upwards rather than filling in cracks with aging free agents!

[IbleedBnG83]

I love the Steelers franchise ethic. I really do. But it would be a mistake for the Redskins to try and emulate it in my opinion.

We don't have Dick LeBeau. We have Greg Blache. That's not to say Greg Blache isn't a very capable defensive coordinator. He is. He's just a different breed with a different style. I'd like to see us give him a highish pick to work with (beit DL or LB) but other than that we have a very capable defence.

I think if the Redskins want to build a franchise to rival the Steelers there's no point copying them. We have our own Dick LeBeau - and by that I don't mean some dude with a penchant for a zone-blitz scheme, I mean someone old-school who knows how to coach. Joe Bugels.

Start giving this man some 1st and 2nd round draft picks!! Let him rebuild a line from foundation upwards rather than filling in cracks with aging free agents!

I don't think anyone is calling for a 3-4 in this thread. Its merely pointing out the way the Steelers have built their franchise for years. They focus on pressure coming from the front. The OL needs to be much more stout aswell.

[Harwich Hog]

I don't think anyone is calling for a 3-4 in this thread. Its merely pointing out the way the Steelers have built their franchise for years. They focus on pressure coming from the front. The OL needs to be much more stout aswell.

My point is that it's not just the Steelers draft philosophy that sets them apart. They've drafted less first day offensive lineman than Washington has in the last few years.

And it's much easier to discover and retain talent when you have a system where you could plug most players in and watch them play effectively.

[IbleedBnG83]

My point is that it's not just the Steelers draft philosophy that sets them apart. They've drafted less first day offensive lineman than Washington has in the last few years.

And it's much easier to discover and retain talent when you have a system where you could plug most players in and watch them play effectively.

Absolutely, and that was also mentioned.

We may have more first day lineman, but good OL are not always found day 1 of the draft. Read the article I posted and thats in the breaking news section.

[dent19]

Needless to say our FO sucks.....

[SkinsFTW]

Needless to say our FO sucks.....

Yeah, but at least they care enough to blow huge wads of cash on all these players.

They'd be dangerous if they actually had a clue. :laugh:

[thedevilhimself]

I think the steelers are an interesting case to look at but they are an exception we couldn't do that here, in fact very few franchises could follow the Steelers method .

When you look at the Steelers the first thing you see is they essentially had 3 HC in thier history and yes they had a lot of sucess but how many owners/fan bases would give their team time to develop and win like the steelers fans do .

[Skinsinparadise]

The dominant or good offensive line bit by some of these posts catch me amusing. The rap on the Steelers' achilles heel for the last two seasons has been their offensive line and how Ben is always running for his life.

If you read the write ups on the Steelers before the games this season including the Redskins one it was about teams gearing up to exploit the Steelers poor O line.

Here's an article that flat out says their O line is the problem, but google it you can find plenty: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3309084

Yeah I know that fact is inconvienent to the lines are everything crowd. Heck even on thier defense, easy to argue that the stellar play is coming more from the back 7, in particular the LB's and safeties. And also they did draft WR's with three #1's which contradicts what some of us espouse.

I am not arguing that the lines aren't important but to me reading this it isn't an illustration how the lines are the be all and end all, if anything it refutes it. But its a prime illustration that building though the draft and good scouting makes a huge difference. IMO it shows finding good talent and building the team with fiscally restraint, and a youth movement trumps what positions you focus your attention on.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Damn!!! I didnt know James Harrison was Undrafted!!!!

[DexterSackMachine]

I agree that the Steelers run a top notch organization. That's one reason I think that we should have, and still can hire Russ Grimm as Head Coach if Zorn/Vinny flames out after next season. He's see the inner workers of a good FO and can bring in people to emulate them. In addition I feel that Grimm is the Singletary leader type you need as HC today. You can bring in other "geniuses" to do the Xs and Os.

[santana_4_prez]

Wow, good analysis. Hate to say it, but I'm JEALOUS!

[Skinsinparadise]

I agree that the Steelers run a top notch organization. That's one reason I think that we should have, and still can hire Russ Grimm as Head Coach if Zorn/Vinny flames out after next season. He's see the inner workers of a good FO and can bring in people to emulate them. In addition I feel that Grimm is the Singletary leader type you need as HC today. You can bring in other "geniuses" to do the Xs and Os.

Maybe I've seen Grimm at the wrong times but when I hear him talk on TV he seems low key and boring, actually reminds me some of Andy Reid, and not exactly a fiery Mike Singletary type. Maybe I caught him at the wrong time.

[DexterSackMachine]

Maybe I've seen Grimm at the wrong times but when I hear him talk he seems low key and boring, not exactly a fiery Mike Singletary type. Maybe I caught him at the wrong time.

I'm just going on what people like Rick Walker have said about him. He's the warrior type who even scares the owners according to Walker.

You right in saying that he's probably not as vocal as Singeltary. I guess I'm thinking of just a strong leader, which they say he is.

[Oldskool]

Here's where the Steelers get it right:

They keep the same defense scheme and draft players that fit into the scheme, not just the best player on the draft board at the time of their selection and hope they can plug and play the player into the defense.

They run the 3-4. This is the future of the league right here and something that the Skins should look into after Carter leaves the team.

Here's where the Steelers get it wrong:

Their offense stinks. Not nearly dynamic enough and depends way too much on the defense to bail them out.

They spend next to nothing on free agency or keeping key players on the team. This is a mixed blessing as you let guys like Burress, and Porter go and depend heavily on the draft and unproven players.

They have been fortunate to play in the weaksauce division that they are in, facing little true competition until the playoffs and not having this as an exposed weakness.

[Hokieskins1]

Great post...... I hate how the Redskins are run.

[SkinsNumberOne]

Their players stick around... They have continuity... That's the difference.

They also have a franchise quarterback. They weren't anything until they got Ben Roethlisberger. People forget the Steelers of the 80s, 90s and early party of 00s were middle of the pack. Occasionally they would go 13-3 and lose out in the playoffs when they were expected to win it all, but they weren't this "jewel" people seem to be touting now. In a few years, their fans will be complaining about how "old" their roster is and how their drafts sucked. Do you think last year they thought replacing Plaxico Burress with Nate Washington was a good idea?

If you lose out in the playoffs after a 15-win season, even though it's stupid, disappointing, and the season was a waste, it doesn't mean that the 15 wins weren't an accomplishment of their own accord.

Same to be said of losing the Super Bowl (1995).

The Steelers in the 90s were pretty far from "middle of the pack."

[SkinsNumberOne]

Redskins #24 5.0 average per offensive play

Steelers #25 4.9

Although the O line improved at year's end, Big Ben was pounded for much of the year.

Yeah, but that may also be a function of Ben's playing style. He holds the ball too long.

The Steelers were even more hard hit with injuries to the OL early in the season than we were late, and that skewed their stats. The only difference is that when they get hard-hit with injuries, they sink to average or just below average. We go from top-tier to nothing due to lack of depth and other team-wide differences.

*I don't follow the Steelers that closely, but there were Steelers fans in the crowd of that rough MNF game who were talking about it. They seemed like they knew what they were talking about and not BS'ing.

[Dick Edds]

Here's where the Steelers get it right:

They keep the same defense scheme and draft players that fit into the scheme, not just the best player on the draft board at the time of their selection and hope they can plug and play the player into the defense.

They run the 3-4. This is the future of the league right here and something that the Skins should look into after Carter leaves the team.

Here's where the Steelers get it wrong:

Their offense stinks. Not nearly dynamic enough and depends way too much on the defense to bail them out.

They spend next to nothing on free agency or keeping key players on the team. This is a mixed blessing as you let guys like Burress, and Porter go and depend heavily on the draft and unproven players.

They have been fortunate to play in the weaksauce division that they are in, facing little true competition until the playoffs and not having this as an exposed weakness.

I like the way you think! Though I don't think it matters too much whether you run a 3-4 or 4-3 defense ... these days most defenses are versatile enough to change things up a bit.

The last Philly game was the first game I noticed we were doing stunting with JT at the los ... and disguising who we were dropping back and who was rushing. That was the most creative defense I saw from our skins all year long.

JT still has a lot of value if he is used the right way. Any system, whether defensive or offensive can be a hybrid at times and use principles and philosophies where the game situations dictate. Philly still has a super aggressive defense and they run the 4-3 ... I think the more flexible your defense is though, the more problems you can cause. of course i am just an arm chair coach winging it right now. Hail!

[IbleedBnG83]

Here's where the Steelers get it right:

They keep the same defense scheme and draft players that fit into the scheme, not just the best player on the draft board at the time of their selection and hope they can plug and play the player into the defense.

exactly! similar to the Patriots. Take last year. They went with Jerod Mayo was was ranked lower, and drafted him pretty high over Keith Rivers. Best player available is good for later rounds, but not when you have specific needs that need filled.

They spend next to nothing on free agency or keeping key players on the team. This is a mixed blessing as you let guys like Burress, and Porter go and depend heavily on the draft and unproven players.

Buress wasn't very productive when he was with Pitt for them to feel the need to pay him big money, I understand that. Porter was getting up in age and they wanted to make a youth movement. How has losing Porter hurt them at all? Porter was good this year but wasn't spectacular his last year in Pitt.

[IbleedBnG83]

I like the way you think! Though I don't think it matters too much whether you run a 3-4 or 4-3 defense ... these days most defenses are versatile enough to change things up a bit.

The last Philly game was the first game I noticed we were doing stunting with JT at the los ... and disguising who we were dropping back and who was rushing. That was the most creative defense I saw from our skins all year long.

JT still has a lot of value if he is used the right way. Any system, whether defensive or offensive can be a hybrid at times and use principles and philosophies where the game situations dictate. Philly still has a super aggressive defense and they run the 4-3 ... I think the more flexible your defense is though, the more problems you can cause. of course i am just an arm chair coach winging it right now. Hail!

I don't think we should keep Taylor at 8mil a year, but i like them moving him around. I would like to see the same with Carter as he has had experience at LB. They could put evans and Daniels on the line and have Carter moving around behind the line presnap.