Yet another example of why we are closer to the Lions than the Patriots

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Oh I See, your using 8 games to summarize our franchise?

We have made runs before "when it matters.' We didn't this year.

That's the irritating part lol...when we made those runs, too many people here downplayed those runs as insignificant. "We needed a 5 game winning streak to make the playoffs!"..."We needed a 4-game winning streak spurred by the death of a player to make the playoffs!".

Funny how during those seasons the lack of early success showed how miserable the team REALLY was, and the late season success was rendered irrelevant when assessing the team. This year, the early success is rendered irrelevant when assessing the team.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I think they have been showing patience for at least the last two years. But unfortunately too many fans see that patience as incompetence.

patience is different than just sitting around and waiting. if i as a fan saw a legit plan being worked on, id have no problem being patient. take the nationals for example. i have no problem with the fact that they are a dreadful baseball team with more holes than a prairie dog field. but, i personally feel they have a plan in place, so im willing to wait. they are trying to get as many good young players as they can, and once that group of youngsters proves they can compete, they will begin to spend money. they proved they have no problem spending money on legit young players by throwing 40 trillion dollars at tex, its just hard to compete with those cool looking NY hats.

either way, thats a plan. whats the redskins plan? somebody explain this plan to me, cause i dont see one. i see no difference in any of the past 4 or 5 seasons. we pay for old free agents, and when we draft its at sexy positions. were still ignoring the lines, we still have a mediocre game managing QB whos not even allowed to compete with potential other QBs, CP still has no leash no matter who the coach is because him and snyder are BFFs, and we have the worst current GM in football who is responsible for some of the worst FA acquistions and draft picks ever.

ive said it before, if the redskins come out into the public and say "heres our plan, and we might struggle for a few seasons", you wont see complaints from me. i have no problem watching some young kids compete and fail. i do have a problem with overpaying for old guys who have no future compete and fail.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

patience is different than just sitting around and waiting. if i as a fan saw a legit plan being worked on, id have no problem being patient.

Do you REALLY think the Skins' FO has no plan in place, or that there's zero evidence that they do? :doh:...You can't be that naive.

I think with most fans, it's a lot like the Cardinals..."Their owner sucks! Their FO sucks! Their players suck! THEY suck!! What a joke of a franchise! Fitz and Boldin are wasted there! Edge is washed up! If the Cardinals don't want Davis then what does THAT say about his worth?! Leinart is a bust! Just shows how inept their scouting department is! Wasted high pick! They could have had (fill in the blank) instead! Warner is over the hill and fumbles too much!! That team's going nowhere with Bidwell as owner!"

Then they go on to make it to the Super Bowl...

"Snyder could learn a thing or two from the Cardinals! Zorn should watch what Wisenhunt did in his 2nd year if he wants to improve! They stocked up on talent! Fitz and Boldin were smart moves! We could have had Warner here instead of Brunell!"

It's not that the Cardinals "didn't have a plan"...every stinkin' team in the league has a plan, even the Lions had a plan under Millen. It's just that it's easier to claim your team does NOT have a plan when they're not winning.

Under Gibbs the plan was to stock the roster with proven FA veterans and build the depth through the draft. The two biggest flaws in their plan, though, turned out to be 1) trading future picks to get those veteran FAs, and 2) apparently not doing enough homework on those FAs.

The plan under Vinny/Snyder appears to be:

1) Go easy on the FAs if at all possible, and try to only sign those players that the coaches have some sort of experience with.

2) Invest in developing Campbell as much as possible to see if he's "the answer".

3) Trading down in the draft to try and recoup picks lost in the past (and due to the JT trade, this year).

4) Revamp the coaching staff and FO, and create a clearly defined FO hierarchy with Vinny the clear "GM".

Doesn't mean they'll stick to this plan no matter what...no good FO does. But it IS obvious that is Vinny and Snyder's (and Zorn's) plan. Hell, Vinny pretty much outlined it at several press conferences.

If the Skins are lucky enough (and dedicated enough from the owner down to the players) and end up winning the division and advancing in the playoffs within the next two years, there will be articles written about how Snyder and Vinny's plan worked out. You'll read in minute detail what their thinking was, why they did what they did, where they went right, where they went wrong, etc. You will NOT see articles saying "While Snyder and Cerrato really had no plan or method to guide their decisions, they somehow ended up in the NFC Championship game anyway." lol...

For me, I find it damn easy to be patient and do these things:

- Wait and see how last year's draft class pans out, especially the receivers. Hopefully Vinny and Zorn's plan of drafting the BPA in the 2nd round works out and we have our future starters already on the roster.

- Wait and see if hiring Zorn truly revitalizes the offense, and continues to develop Campbell and Brennan. If so, one of these two QBs just might end up being what we have been missing for well over a decade.

- Wait and see if Zorn develops into a bonafide quality OC. This was his first year at calling plays as well as at coaching. I'm more than patient enough to wait and see if he shows improvement, which believe it or not many people DO improve from their first times at something to their second time, and their 3rd time...

- Wait and see if Vinny goes after line help aggresively, as is being reported he wants to do.

So, yeah...to me, fan impatience has absolutely zero to do with "they don't have a plan". It has everything, though, to do with "They're not winning, and I want things to change, now!"

[elkabong82]

thank you califan

[REEGSKINS]

i wanted to post this earlier. this is a great move. reese is a very good gm, i dont know why we didnt approach him. actually i do... snyderatto thinks that we have a great set up. kinda scary.

[SkinsFTW]

Califan, it's not that people think they have no plan. It's that the plan changes from year to year dependent on whether they can create enough cap room to sabotage their own draft. They will still try to bring in loads of Free agents and will still trade draft picks for them. I.E. Chad Johnson talks last year, and the Jason Taylor trade that they denied interest in.

[Thinking Skins]

Califan, it's not that people think they have no plan. It's that the plan changes from year to year dependent on whether they can create enough cap room to sabotage their own draft. They will still try to bring in loads of Free agents and will still trade draft picks for them. I.E. Chad Johnson talks last year, and the Jason Taylor trade that they denied interest in.

What has Vinny said this offseason that shows a change in the plan since last offseason?

[SkinsFTW]

What has Vinny said this offseason that shows a change in the plan since last offseason?

Does it really matter what he says? He said we weren't going after Jason Taylor, a few minutes before he was traded. I'm not too worried about what any of them say, I just wait to see who they signed.

Fact is, when Snyderatto has cap room they use it on whatever Free Agents are available whether they fit our system or not. It's a Madden Football 101 here at Redskinsland. Maybe their isn't any easy way to get cap space this year but you can bet that a few restructures will happen and we will see some action.

[fansince62]

Do you REALLY think the Skins' FO has no plan in place, or that there's zero evidence that they do? :doh:...You can't be that naive.

I think with most fans, it's a lot like the Cardinals..."Their owner sucks! Their FO sucks! Their players suck! THEY suck!! What a joke of a franchise! Fitz and Boldin are wasted there! Edge is washed up! If the Cardinals don't want Davis then what does THAT say about his worth?! Leinart is a bust! Just shows how inept their scouting department is! Wasted high pick! They could have had (fill in the blank) instead! Warner is over the hill and fumbles too much!! That team's going nowhere with Bidwell as owner!"

Then they go on to make it to the Super Bowl...

"Snyder could learn a thing or two from the Cardinals! Zorn should watch what Wisenhunt did in his 2nd year if he wants to improve! They stocked up on talent! Fitz and Boldin were smart moves! We could have had Warner here instead of Brunell!"

It's not that the Cardinals "didn't have a plan"...every stinkin' team in the league has a plan, even the Lions had a plan under Millen. It's just that it's easier to claim your team does NOT have a plan when they're not winning.

Under Gibbs the plan was to stock the roster with proven FA veterans and build the depth through the draft. The two biggest flaws in their plan, though, turned out to be 1) trading future picks to get those veteran FAs, and 2) apparently not doing enough homework on those FAs.

The plan under Vinny/Snyder appears to be:

1) Go easy on the FAs if at all possible, and try to only sign those players that the coaches have some sort of experience with.

2) Invest in developing Campbell as much as possible to see if he's "the answer".

3) Trading down in the draft to try and recoup picks lost in the past (and due to the JT trade, this year).

4) Revamp the coaching staff and FO, and create a clearly defined FO hierarchy with Vinny the clear "GM".

Doesn't mean they'll stick to this plan no matter what...no good FO does. But it IS obvious that is Vinny and Snyder's (and Zorn's) plan. Hell, Vinny pretty much outlined it at several press conferences.

If the Skins are lucky enough (and dedicated enough from the owner down to the players) and end up winning the division and advancing in the playoffs within the next two years, there will be articles written about how Snyder and Vinny's plan worked out. You'll read in minute detail what their thinking was, why they did what they did, where they went right, where they went wrong, etc. You will NOT see articles saying "While Snyder and Cerrato really had no plan or method to guide their decisions, they somehow ended up in the NFC Championship game anyway." lol...

For me, I find it damn easy to be patient and do these things:

- Wait and see how last year's draft class pans out, especially the receivers. Hopefully Vinny and Zorn's plan of drafting the BPA in the 2nd round works out and we have our future starters already on the roster.

- Wait and see if hiring Zorn truly revitalizes the offense, and continues to develop Campbell and Brennan. If so, one of these two QBs just might end up being what we have been missing for well over a decade.

- Wait and see if Zorn develops into a bonafide quality OC. This was his first year at calling plays as well as at coaching. I'm more than patient enough to wait and see if he shows improvement, which believe it or not many people DO improve from their first times at something to their second time, and their 3rd time...

- Wait and see if Vinny goes after line help aggresively, as is being reported he wants to do.

So, yeah...to me, fan impatience has absolutely zero to do with "they don't have a plan". It has everything, though, to do with "They're not winning, and I want things to change, now!"

cali...I know you feel compelled to ride in on the white horse.....get the cheerleaders like Elk to nod in prideful assent....that things are improving...we just don't understand.....universal goodness is in front of our very eyes and we are all too jaundiced to see it.....but.....

it has become an annual rite on these boards for someone to communicate this message. well....the attitude has finally been mugged by reality. 16 years of reality to be specific. aside from the fact that you drift off into your own speculative psychology that HAS NOTHING TO DO with how decisions are being made and how past decisins have boxed the team in......there is...at the end of the day...the final, indisputable, unassailable, unarguable, immutable fact of......drum roll....16 years of inconsistent, unaccomplished...ultimately unsuccessful football. that many of us also have models of success to compare against the Skins - other teams - doesn't help either.

all we hear these days is one endless littany of excuses. were I you...I would lay low and at least wait until there is that one moment of shining success so that there is actually some substance to what is being asserted. otherwise...the folks pushing this line of thought...quite frankly......sound, seem and are...just as silly as the folks pushing the world is ending mush.

[fansince62]

Does it really matter what he says? He said we weren't going after Jason Taylor, a few minutes before he was traded. I'm not too worried about what any of them say, I just wait to see who they signed.

Fact is, when Snyderatto has cap room they use it on whatever Free Agents are available whether they fit our system or not. It's a Madden Football 101 here at Redskinsland. Maybe their isn't any easy way to get cap space this year but you can bet that a few restructures will happen and we will see some action.

look man....there are people who like the climb much more so than the arrival. whether they ever arrive at the mountain top is irrelevant to them. rather obvious ...eh?

the Skins the last 16 years remind me of the one living example throughout recorded history of how Zeno's paradox actually applies! half a step closer - never to reach the end!!! at least if one listens to the optimists!!!

[Thinking Skins]

cali...I know you feel compelled to ride in on the white horse.....get the cheerleaders like Elk to nod in prideful assent....that things are improving...we just don't understand.....universal goodness is in front of our very eyes and we are all too jaundiced to see it.....but.....

it has become an annual rite on these boards for someone to communicate this message. well....the attitude has finally been mugged by reality. 16 years of reality to be specific. aside from the fact that you drift off into your own speculative psychology that HAS NOTHING TO DO with how decisions are being made and how past decisins have boxed the team in......there is...at the end of the day...the final, indisputable, unassailable, unarguable, immutable fact of......drum roll....16 years of inconsistent, unaccomplished...ultimately unsuccessful football. that many of us also have models of success to compare against the Skins - other teams - doesn't help either.

all we hear these days is one endless littany of excuses. were I you...I would lay low and at least wait until there is that one moment of shining success so that there is actually some substance to what is being asserted. otherwise...the folks pushing this line of thought...quite frankly......sound, seem and are...just as silly as the folks pushing the world is ending mush.

Says one of the eternal pessimists.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Do you REALLY think the Skins' FO has no plan in place, or that there's zero evidence that they do? :doh:...You can't be that naive.

I think with most fans, it's a lot like the Cardinals..."Their owner sucks! Their FO sucks! Their players suck! THEY suck!! What a joke of a franchise! Fitz and Boldin are wasted there! Edge is washed up! If the Cardinals don't want Davis then what does THAT say about his worth?! Leinart is a bust! Just shows how inept their scouting department is! Wasted high pick! They could have had (fill in the blank) instead! Warner is over the hill and fumbles too much!! That team's going nowhere with Bidwell as owner!"

Then they go on to make it to the Super Bowl...

"Snyder could learn a thing or two from the Cardinals! Zorn should watch what Wisenhunt did in his 2nd year if he wants to improve! They stocked up on talent! Fitz and Boldin were smart moves! We could have had Warner here instead of Brunell!"

It's not that the Cardinals "didn't have a plan"...every stinkin' team in the league has a plan, even the Lions had a plan under Millen. It's just that it's easier to claim your team does NOT have a plan when they're not winning.

Under Gibbs the plan was to stock the roster with proven FA veterans and build the depth through the draft. The two biggest flaws in their plan, though, turned out to be 1) trading future picks to get those veteran FAs, and 2) apparently not doing enough homework on those FAs.

The plan under Vinny/Snyder appears to be:

1) Go easy on the FAs if at all possible, and try to only sign those players that the coaches have some sort of experience with.

2) Invest in developing Campbell as much as possible to see if he's "the answer".

3) Trading down in the draft to try and recoup picks lost in the past (and due to the JT trade, this year).

4) Revamp the coaching staff and FO, and create a clearly defined FO hierarchy with Vinny the clear "GM".

Doesn't mean they'll stick to this plan no matter what...no good FO does. But it IS obvious that is Vinny and Snyder's (and Zorn's) plan. Hell, Vinny pretty much outlined it at several press conferences.

If the Skins are lucky enough (and dedicated enough from the owner down to the players) and end up winning the division and advancing in the playoffs within the next two years, there will be articles written about how Snyder and Vinny's plan worked out. You'll read in minute detail what their thinking was, why they did what they did, where they went right, where they went wrong, etc. You will NOT see articles saying "While Snyder and Cerrato really had no plan or method to guide their decisions, they somehow ended up in the NFC Championship game anyway." lol...

For me, I find it damn easy to be patient and do these things:

- Wait and see how last year's draft class pans out, especially the receivers. Hopefully Vinny and Zorn's plan of drafting the BPA in the 2nd round works out and we have our future starters already on the roster.

- Wait and see if hiring Zorn truly revitalizes the offense, and continues to develop Campbell and Brennan. If so, one of these two QBs just might end up being what we have been missing for well over a decade.

- Wait and see if Zorn develops into a bonafide quality OC. This was his first year at calling plays as well as at coaching. I'm more than patient enough to wait and see if he shows improvement, which believe it or not many people DO improve from their first times at something to their second time, and their 3rd time...

- Wait and see if Vinny goes after line help aggresively, as is being reported he wants to do.

So, yeah...to me, fan impatience has absolutely zero to do with "they don't have a plan". It has everything, though, to do with "They're not winning, and I want things to change, now!"

i see no plan in place whatsoever, and if youd like to call me naive, then so be it. but ill be a naive guy that knows this plan or any plan weve had has been a failure.

2004 - the skins blew it up, ignored the draft, brought in a billion FAs. griffin, springs, washington, portis, brunell, etc. we drafted 2 pro bowlers with the 3 (i think) picks we had. team went 6-10.

2005 - had 2 1st rounders with trades, and had a horrendous draft. both first rounders still havent turned out to be 1st rounders, and the rest of the guys we drafted were runningbacks that failed miserably. we brought in santana moss via trade, and he had a nice season. we made an epic run at the playoffs only to get shown up by the eventual NFC champs. 10-6, 1-1

2006 - now we completely throw out the draft plan which we had the year before where we had 2 1st rounders, only to have 1 day one pick. we take rocky, then we end up with golston, monty, doughty, and other dudes who didnt make the team. not many impact guys in this draft. we also sign the worst FA crop in the history of football: archuleta, lloyd, randle el, carter, all to huge money deals, and none of them have worked out for what we pay. epic fail 5-11

2007 - now we still avoid the draft, and we only get landry, and not a single other pick makes the team. we lay low in free agency most likely to avoid further embarrassment, or maybe we just didnt have any money. we get fletcher, good pickup. we go 9-7, 0-1 in playoffs.

2008 - this year we just decide to draft the universe, with 10 picks. horton is the only guy who made a difference this year, and im not ready to judge this draft class yet, but you bring up the cardinals. well 2 of their DPs this year made a huge difference, hightower and dominique RC both played outstanding for their rookie seasons. trade 2nd and 6th rounders for jason failure. 8-8

whats our plan? is our plan to bumble around in the draft, pick up a good player in the first round, get lucky in the 7th? have entire years where our whole draft class is a failure? then go out and sign a million free agents once every couple of years? wash rinse repeat? i mean, whats the plan that im failing to see? trade more draft picks for over the hill guys? erasmus james? pete kendall? all of these guys cost us potential youth, but some of you dont seem to care.

someone just in a few sentences lay out our plan please.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

again, ill bring up the nats. they have a plan. dont know whether itll work or not, but its the same every year. draft guys, go after youngsters, dont blow money in FA. thats a plan i can see, some might not agree with it, some might think its awesome, regardless of that its still a plan.

the redskins plan seems to change from season to season, hence making it not a plan. at least not a long term plan anyways.

[0mega]

i see no plan in place whatsoever, and if youd like to call me naive, then so be it. but ill be a naive guy that knows this plan or any plan weve had has been a failure.

2004 - the skins blew it up, ignored the draft, brought in a billion FAs. griffin, springs, washington, portis, brunell, etc. we drafted 2 pro bowlers with the 3 (i think) picks we had. team went 6-10.

2005 - had 2 1st rounders with trades, and had a horrendous draft. both first rounders still havent turned out to be 1st rounders, and the rest of the guys we drafted were runningbacks that failed miserably. we brought in santana moss via trade, and he had a nice season. we made an epic run at the playoffs only to get shown up by the eventual NFC champs. 10-6, 1-1

2006 - now we completely throw out the draft plan which we had the year before where we had 2 1st rounders, only to have 1 day one pick. we take rocky, then we end up with golston, monty, doughty, and other dudes who didnt make the team. not many impact guys in this draft. we also sign the worst FA crop in the history of football: archuleta, lloyd, randle el, carter, all to huge money deals, and none of them have worked out for what we pay. epic fail 5-11

2007 - now we still avoid the draft, and we only get landry, and not a single other pick makes the team. we lay low in free agency most likely to avoid further embarrassment, or maybe we just didnt have any money. we get fletcher, good pickup. we go 9-7, 0-1 in playoffs.

2008 - this year we just decide to draft the universe, with 10 picks. horton is the only guy who made a difference this year, and im not ready to judge this draft class yet, but you bring up the cardinals. well 2 of their DPs this year made a huge difference, hightower and dominique RC both played outstanding for their rookie seasons. trade 2nd and 6th rounders for jason failure. 8-8

whats our plan? is our plan to bumble around in the draft, pick up a good player in the first round, get lucky in the 7th? have entire years where our whole draft class is a failure? then go out and sign a million free agents once every couple of years? wash rinse repeat? i mean, whats the plan that im failing to see? trade more draft picks for over the hill guys? erasmus james? pete kendall? all of these guys cost us potential youth, but some of you dont seem to care.

someone just in a few sentences lay out our plan please.

He cited last years offseason approach and called it a plan. To me, you can't call it a plan until either somebody comes out and says "this is our plan," or there is a consistent pattern of action to SEE what the plan is. By all appearances, we're a rudderless ship, drifting wherever the tide of the day happens to takes us.

[pjfootballer]

again, ill bring up the nats. they have a plan. dont know whether itll work or not, but its the same every year. draft guys, go after youngsters, dont blow money in FA. thats a plan i can see, some might not agree with it, some might think its awesome, regardless of that its still a plan.

the redskins plan seems to change from season to season, hence making it not a plan. at least not a long term plan anyways.

The Capitals are a better example. Aging, overpaid, underacheiving team. Lockout comes. Traded anyone and anything (including the coffee table in the lobby at the Booth) for TONS of draft picks. I remember the Caps having like 6 picks in the first 3 rounds one year. Keep a few veterans around to help the kids (Kolzig, Clark, Bradley) and let the kids develop.

Losing season in 05 with the kids. Near playoff run in 06 with the kids. Playoff run in 07 and adding key vets (Huet, Feds) to make a long run in the playoffs and a division title. Re-sign key players (except Huet, but Jose was cheaper and just as good) and use the same core of players that made the run last year.

Now the team is being talked about possibly making a run at the cup within the next 3 years. THAT was a PLAN. And a GREAT plan that has actually come to fruition.

[paintrain]

i see no plan in place whatsoever, and if youd like to call me naive, then so be it. but ill be a naive guy that knows this plan or any plan weve had has been a failure.

2004 - the skins blew it up, ignored the draft, brought in a billion FAs. griffin, springs, washington, portis, brunell, etc. we drafted 2 pro bowlers with the 3 (i think) picks we had. team went 6-10.

2005 - had 2 1st rounders with trades, and had a horrendous draft. both first rounders still havent turned out to be 1st rounders, and the rest of the guys we drafted were runningbacks that failed miserably. we brought in santana moss via trade, and he had a nice season. we made an epic run at the playoffs only to get shown up by the eventual NFC champs. 10-6, 1-1

2006 - now we completely throw out the draft plan which we had the year before where we had 2 1st rounders, only to have 1 day one pick. we take rocky, then we end up with golston, monty, doughty, and other dudes who didnt make the team. not many impact guys in this draft. we also sign the worst FA crop in the history of football: archuleta, lloyd, randle el, carter, all to huge money deals, and none of them have worked out for what we pay. epic fail 5-11

2007 - now we still avoid the draft, and we only get landry, and not a single other pick makes the team. we lay low in free agency most likely to avoid further embarrassment, or maybe we just didnt have any money. we get fletcher, good pickup. we go 9-7, 0-1 in playoffs.

2008 - this year we just decide to draft the universe, with 10 picks. horton is the only guy who made a difference this year, and im not ready to judge this draft class yet, but you bring up the cardinals. well 2 of their DPs this year made a huge difference, hightower and dominique RC both played outstanding for their rookie seasons. trade 2nd and 6th rounders for jason failure. 8-8

whats our plan? is our plan to bumble around in the draft, pick up a good player in the first round, get lucky in the 7th? have entire years where our whole draft class is a failure? then go out and sign a million free agents once every couple of years? wash rinse repeat? i mean, whats the plan that im failing to see? trade more draft picks for over the hill guys? erasmus james? pete kendall? all of these guys cost us potential youth, but some of you dont seem to care.

someone just in a few sentences lay out our plan please.

That's exactly why I've been asserting that Joe Gibbs 4 years actually set the franchise back 8 years. He left us with an old, stale, salary cap bloated roster that was lacking in elite players at any position. It's going to be at least a 4 year rebuild and with Cerrato in charge and unchecked it's not going to be pretty. While I am not writing off the 2nd round picks, I think it's safe to say that the '08 draft class has much to prove to avoid the 'disaster' label in a couple of years.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

The Capitals are a better example. Aging, overpaid, underacheiving team. Lockout comes. Traded anyone and anything (including the coffee table in the lobby at the Booth) for TONS of draft picks. I remember the Caps having like 6 picks in the first 3 rounds one year. Keep a few veterans around to help the kids (Kolzig, Clark, Bradley) and let the kids develop.

Losing season in 05 with the kids. Near playoff run in 06 with the kids. Playoff run in 07 and adding key vets (Huet, Feds) to make a long run in the playoffs and a division title. Re-sign key players (except Huet, but Jose was cheaper and just as good) and use the same core of players that made the run last year.

Now the team is being talked about possibly making a run at the cup within the next 3 years. THAT was a PLAN. And a GREAT plan that has actually come to fruition.

im not a hockey guy but i do believe this is a better example. the caps were a joke a few years ago, and now they are probably the most feared offense in hockey. my friends into hockey all tell me i dont know what im missing by not watching the caps or hockey in general. they obviously built it through the draft, kids like ovechkin, backstrom, semin, all these dudes home grown and total monsters.

but we'll never do this because we have no plan. every year we just fumble around and try something else.

[RFKFedEx]

but we'll never do this because we have no plan.

What do you mean?

There's a classic Vinny soundbite Czaban still plays from the Spurriur era:

'we have a plan, don't worry, we know what we're doing'

:doh:

[HailGreen28]

That's exactly why I've been asserting that Joe Gibbs 4 years actually set the franchise back 8 years. He left us with an old, stale, salary cap bloated roster that was lacking in elite players at any position. It's going to be at least a 4 year rebuild and with Cerrato in charge and unchecked it's not going to be pretty. While I am not writing off the 2nd round picks, I think it's safe to say that the '08 draft class has much to prove to avoid the 'disaster' label in a couple of years.

I'd argue that Gibbs left us better off than the Spurrier era. Judging by your sig, I think you'll agree that what we saw from Vinny during the Turner/Spurrier years wasn't pretty either.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I'd argue that Gibbs left us better off than the Spurrier era. Judging by your sig, I think you'll agree that what we saw from Vinny during the Turner/Spurrier years wasn't pretty either.

thats not all true. i dont remember having a plethora of uncuttable player under spurrier due to awful contracts. we have so many players that we cant cut or we have to pay them forever. spurrier might have had less talent to work with than gibbs assembled, but its also going to cost us in the long run, something spurrier didnt to do us.

[paintrain]

thats not all true. i dont remember having a plethora of uncuttable player under spurrier due to awful contracts. we have so many players that we cant cut or we have to pay them forever. spurrier might have had less talent to work with than gibbs assembled, but its also going to cost us in the long run, something spurrier didnt to do us.

Exactly, Spurrier's damage was limited to his tenure. Gibbs damage still lingers and will linger for a couple more years.

[fansince62]

Says one of the eternal pessimists.

ouch! now there's a biting, fact filled response!!!!!

[fansince62]

again, ill bring up the nats. they have a plan. dont know whether itll work or not, but its the same every year. draft guys, go after youngsters, dont blow money in FA. thats a plan i can see, some might not agree with it, some might think its awesome, regardless of that its still a plan.

the redskins plan seems to change from season to season, hence making it not a plan. at least not a long term plan anyways.

bingo! even as Old would concede...it's all been short-term thinking. I prefer to think of it as patchwork thinking.

[Oldfan]

please explain how that makes the defense overrated?...the defense is not overrated, to be overrated you have to first be rated highly, which you above state plainly doesn't happen.

The NFL rankings based on yardage stats has our D fourth. It's a poor measurement because it doesn't consider...

...sacks and turnovers...... while sacks alone don't equal wins, they do help produce turnovers, which studies show do win ball games (or lose them depending on which side of the ball your on)

Zorn has said he wants the D to be more aggressive in 2009. Assuming we don't have a talent downgrade, we should have a better D next season even if the stats don't show it.

[Oldfan]

...The plan under Vinny/Snyder appears to be:

1) Go easy on the FAs if at all possible, and try to only sign those players that the coaches have some sort of experience with.

2) Invest in developing Campbell as much as possible to see if he's "the answer".

3) Trading down in the draft to try and recoup picks lost in the past (and due to the JT trade, this year).

4) Revamp the coaching staff and FO, and create a clearly defined FO hierarchy with Vinny the clear "GM"...

We're in agreement.

Except for the trade of picks for Taylor and the aborted trade of picks for Chad Johnson, I've been on board for their moves since the 2007 offseason.

Dan and Vinny aren't brilliant, but they have learned from their mistakes (and Joe's). The poor result from the Taylor trade was probably a good thing.

I'm more optimistic now than I have been for years. The organization has been on a win-now plan for several years. Gibbs accelerated it, and then took his foot off the accelerator after the 2006 collapse. Dan and Vinny need to come off it entirely.