Why do so many people want Campbell to be a Gunslinger?

[XSean21TaylorX]

i've been reading the Campbell debate for ages... and the number one conclusion i get is that many fans on these boards want Campbell to be a gunslinger.

something i don't feel this team needs, the redskins have been known to be a running team, something that have brought us success during our Superbowl runs. and the ridiculous focus so many have on this, is just crazy to me.

Campbell has been for the most part playing safe efficient football that has helped us to maintain leads for the most part and win games, and he is able to win games such as the recently the saints game earlier this year.

he has come clutch in securing victories, where execution had to be perfect for a quick slant to moss, or even the game yesterday where he helped convert a 3rd and long to moss to basically secure the game. other than Betts fumble.

the issue hasnt been him, hes been progressing well, but hes not a gunslinger hes an efficent QB, that can go deep when nessicary. people want him to make plays by himself, but when the personel isnt there what is he suposed to do?

lets see how well he does with kelly and thomas getting more snaps, this will open the team up alot more, and then i can say you all can judge his game. right now in my opinion hes progressing as he should, with portis representing what the redskins have been for all these years. a strong run game with a solid yet effcient QB. that will win us games.

[truskinsfan18]

Thank you, someone who actually makes sense. Great post, I agree 100%. Anyone wanting to bench Campbell must not have been alive for the last 10 years watching pathetic quarterback after pathetic quarterback play for us. Campbell finally gives us some stability at the position, I mean we are 7-4.....

Also, how do people expect Campbell to be a gunslinger wen he has never done it before? He has always had a great running game whether it be in college or now. He does have the ability to do it, and he certainly has the arm strength.

[Recent Vintage]

Because if he were really good at just being an efficient QB then it would be fine, but this offense really needs something to change.

Personally, I don't think it's Campbell's fault. He's one of the most sacked QBs in the league that's actually doing well. Of QBs with a rating over 82 (His is a 90) only Matt Cassell has been sacked more times. Aaron Rogers and Favre are tied behind him with 21 sacks a piece.

But I can absolutely see where someone is coming from when this offense seems conservative and runs for almost as many yards as it passes for. I'd love to see more TDs from Campbell, but as long as we're getting wins, then I don't really care how they come.

[chipwhich]

It's kind of like when we had brunell and he was being so careful not to make mistakes that he never mad any plays at all. The only difference is brunell would toss the ball out of bounds when nothing was there, JC takes a sack instead.

Efficiency is good, fear of making mistakes is not.

[skinsfan07]

well put OP. Campbell is a game managing QB who makes plays when needed and relies heavily on the run game. Much like Big Ben. He has a good run game, and a great D that really help him out. And he runs when he needs to, much like JC.

People just don't understand these simple things.

[testrake]

Great Post!!!! Run the ball, play D and make a throw when needed = wins

[modazfuk]

Perhaps some Skins fans who want to win as bad as the next guy would like more excitement and with the added risk(s) comes the reward of more big plays which translates into more points.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Because our our offense doesn't have the power running game that people think it does. Twenty points on the lowly Seahawks is not good. Not good AT ALL. The week before that, 10 points against a Cowboys defense many of us were calling injured and overrated, coming off of a bye week. Prior to that we can't even muster a touchdown against the steelers, a good team no doubt, but THAT good?

In fact, even before that we only scored 25 on arguably the worst team in the league, 14 on the browns, and 17 on the rams. Before that we had 23, 26, 24, 24, 29, 7 against the Eagles, Cowboys, Cardinals, Saints, and Giants.

Don't get me wrong, beating those teams early in the season was not only great, it was incredible and amazing. But when your highest point total is only 29, your average is at 18.2, you certainly are going to have a tough time winning games.

Sure, we've won a good amount of games up to this point. And lets say we make playoffs. Great, Campbell did enough to get us to the playoffs. Hurrah! But the problem is that a real fan isn't satisfied with that, a real fan wants to go far in the playoffs and win a title.

Lets be real, our defense is good but we are not going to hold teams to 18 week in and week out. Our offense needs to be averaged into the mid twenties and have the ability to break thirty every now and then if we are going to win. Do you realize that? We HAVENT BROKEN 30 POINTS all SEASON?

Do I wan't JC to sling it as erradically as Favre? Maybe not. But I expect him to take some shots. Think about Romo sits to pee's pass to that back up tight end? Does JC have the cahones to throw into great coverage knowing he can place it only where his man can get it? Probably not, because I haven't seen him do it often.

Often times I see JC check down. That's fine. I want him to check down if people down field are covered. But checking down to a man who is covered is no good either. How many times have you seen JC throw the check down screen to a man who already has a defender bearing down? Remember that fourth down play in Dallas? Moss was not only covered, he was short of the marker. (I think it was moss).

I'm just saying, if your going to throw into coverage, you mgiht as well do it downfield. Why check down for a yard when you can take a chance down field for 15, an incompletion isn't much different.

This team is NOT a power running team. Sure, we run for close to 200 yards on most games. But these rushing yards aren't translating into points. I don't want JC to throw up stupid passes, I wan't him to be smart in the pocket and make good decisions. But I also NEED him to throw touchdowns. Do you think anyone is on Cassel for throwing a pick yesterday? No, they're on his nuts for throwing 4 TDs. And this is his FIRST season as a starter.

I am NOT a JC hater. I think he has what it takes and I think he will make the next step. But I do think that he needs to make that step in order for our team to be good. Our team is not as good as we thought. Seattle was gashing us with the run game yesterday. Leftwhich proved you can pass on us because we can't rush the QB. Our defense is good, but they are not 18 pts a game good. And the running game is great in terms of moving the ball but it doesn't threaten to score. Teams can bend but not break our running game all the way down to the 30 and then play tight D with 8 in the box and we ARENT GOOD ENOUGH to throw for the last few first downs. Add to that missed field goals by swishie and we can't put teams away.

JC will be great. I have full faith that he is the QB of the future. But as a skins fan I don't want a Mark Brunnell, I don't want a Kerry Collins, I don't want a Trent Green. I want a Favre, a Brees, a Brady, a Mannin. Hell, I'd even settle for a Roethlisberger, or a Bulger.

We have a decent team, and JC can make it great when he makes that step. But we need him to. Think about our potential playoff opponents. Do you think we hold NY under 18? How about Carolina, Atlanta, Tampa, Arizona? The only teams I think we can take no problem are Chicago or Green Bay. Other than that, our offense needs to come to play. We need to go in knowing that we WILL score at least 25 and that we CAN score 35 is things go well. Otherwise it doesn't matter. And in order for us to reach that step JC needs to be a more aggressive QB.

Edit: JC has 8 TD passes. Portis only has 7 TDs. As much as people keep talking about our power running game and such, it has actually produced LESS points than our anemic passing attack. Food for thought...

[Destino]

Why? Because I've seen this before. We depend on the running game, Portis gets banged up, the OLine slows down with injury, and the Redskins offense comes to a grinding hault just in time for the final stretch or the post season.

The redskins with Drew Brees (the one free agent we didn't go after) would be a superbowl contender for the past three years. With our running game and our defense... we'd be hard to stop. JC isn't nearly as good and needs a lot of help from his OLine and pass catchers to avoid having our passing game completely shut down.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

"Why? Because I've seen this before. We depend on the running game, Portis gets banged up, the OLine slows down with injury, and the Redskins offense comes to a grinding hault just in time for the final stretch or the post season. "

Er...you mean the times when we got into the playoffs with runs of 5-0 and 4-1 with Portis carrying the team, the O-Line dominating the line of scrimmage, and the QB playing efficient football?

So let's take that and add a slight (potentially huge) upgrade at QB.

If we can get the O-Line to protect JC the way they open holes for Portis, this is a top 3 team. Period.

(also can we give him more than 11 starts in a complex system and more than 27 starts overall to declare him the next Brunell? I mean, that Drew Brees guy you just mentioned was a bust in San Diego until his last year there. Based on the 2007 regular season alone I could argue Jason Campbell > Eli Manning through 11 games.

[westcoasthog]

JC isn't nearly as good and needs a lot of help from his OLine and pass catchers to avoid having our passing game completely shut down.

Yeah because great QBs still win Super Bowls when their line shuts down and no good but not great QB has ever won a SB because they were behind a great line...Oh wait...

[Vilandil Tasardur]

"Why? Because I've seen this before. We depend on the running game, Portis gets banged up, the OLine slows down with injury, and the Redskins offense comes to a grinding hault just in time for the final stretch or the post season. "

Er...you mean the times when we got into the playoffs with runs of 5-0 and 4-1 with Portis carrying the team, the O-Line dominating the line of scrimmage, and the QB playing efficient football?

So let's take that and add a slight (potentially huge) upgrade at QB.

If we can get the O-Line to protect JC the way they open holes for Portis, this is a top 3 team. Period.

(also can we give him more than 11 starts in a complex system and more than 27 starts overall to declare him the next Brunell? I mean, that Drew Brees guy you just mentioned was a bust in San Diego until his last year there. Based on the 2007 regular season alone I could argue Jason Campbell > Eli Manning through 11 games.

See, I think you're on to something. IF the Oline could pass block as well as they run block we would be a great time. But the fact is that they don't. They don't, and they show no signs of changing. Why would Jansen all of a sudden become a pro bowl pass blocker? What signs have you seen that point you to believe that Kendall or Rabach still have it? And even Samuels, whom I love, doesn't leave me entirely confident against guys like Ware, Tuck, Allen (if the Vikes make the playoffs), Peppers, etc. Sure, these defenders might not all play on that side, I admit I don't know if they do for sure, but would it make you feel better if they play on Jansen's side? I love these guys for their hard work and past success, but there is no reason to believe that they will suddenly turn it around and pass block as good as they are run blocking.

And the one other important fact is that those two years where we finished 5-0 and 4-0 to squeek into the playoffs. It was awsome wan't it. It was really cool to experience. But we BLEW once we got there. Tampa? The worst offense performance by a winning team in the post season? You're right. Portis put this team on his back and carried us to the playoffs, twice. Great running backs do that. Great running backs will let you ride them into the post season. But once you are in the playoffs you almost always need a good quarterback, not a decent game manager. Portis was great during those runs, but when it came down to it we didn't score many points in those post season games.

[TSO]

It's kind of like when we had brunell and he was being so careful not to make mistakes that he never mad any plays at all. The only difference is brunell would toss the ball out of bounds when nothing was there, JC takes a sack instead.

Efficiency is good, fear of making mistakes is not.

It's nothing like Brunell in 06. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. How dare you insult the intelligence of everyone here with this post.

[Ili]

i've been reading the Campbell debate for ages... and the number one conclusion i get is that many fans on these boards want Campbell to be a gunslinger.

:idea:

The solution is simple. All JC needs is a simple makeover! How about a visor on his face mask? It'll give him instant attitude, then everyone can call him Colt Campbell. :thumbsup:

[modazfuk]

whoops wrong thread

[Soup]

Because it looks pretty and we can go shove it down the rest of the NFC east that campbell is god, like cowboy fans do with Romo sits to pee. :paranoid:

Seriously though, the way Campbell has played this year I only expect him to do better next year. Campbell has to be the hardest working player on the skins' roster. You can count on Campbell staying at Redskins park all off season polishing his skills. Remember the west coast is hard to learn and we won't see the true potential for a couple of years. The great thing is we finally have an offense that will not be changed and has worked. I think Campbell's best will be shown in 2009.

[drums and skins]

Its easy to see why people don't think JC is the guy for us.

Offense sells tickets. And our offense isn't producing. Naturally, the blame goes to the quarterback.

I don't think Campbell is the problem, but many people come to this conclusion because its usually the reason offenses aren't doing that well.

[modazfuk]

Offense sells tickets.

Yep, tickets and TV ratings.

I don't think any Skins fans would complain one bit if Campbell and the offense played like the 1999 Rams.

[Sonny9TD]

Because he isn't quite getting it done as a non gunslinger?

[Da Truth]

I mean at least be a threat to "gun-sling" with Portis back there beastin on opposing defenses..imagine us having a vicious aerial attack with Portis averaging +100 yrds a game??

[Ynot]

Not waning hm to be a gun singer just a big play maker. He makes no plays down field. Those whotalk about throwing the bomb, I would be happy with a 15 to 20 yard slant or curl route. Were is the pass to the TE's 15 to 20 0ver the middle.

The one thing that I notice about Campbell, do you ever hear the announcers say that was a great throw, he made the throw before the break and read the defense to see that it was going to be open.

I think he has a problem throwing to a spot

I think he must see the reciever open instead of understanding the coverage and knowing the reciever will come open. That is what Collins did so well last year.

Hopefully time will help. but if not then we will have to depend way to much on a running game and that is why defenses jump us on the short routes as we do not have a quaterback that cna throw to a spot or the ability to adjust his read based on the coverage

[eljeasel]

Is it the effect of the Brett Favre mancrush of the last 12 years or so?

[zCommander]

The game last night against the Saints and the Packers was interesting as there were a lot of gun slinging going on and the score kept on going up and up. With the Skins we are biting our nails and pulling our hair out and begging JC to throw the football farther then the 1st down marker and not for only 2 or 3 yards gain.

Is that too much to ask for. Come on now. The fans pay for excitement and not for heart burns. That reminds me I need to tell the wife to pickup some more Tums.

[SirClintonPortis]

They are dipsticks who don't realize that it's success in the redzone is what really counts for putting TDs on the board, and their 'gunslinger' QBs of choice(Favre has 15 RZ TDS, Warner has 18 RZ TDS, P. Manning has 14 RZ TDS) have plenty of success throwing TDs in the RED ZONE.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

They are dipsticks who don't realize that it's success in the redzone is what really counts for putting TDs on the board, and their 'gunslinger' QBs of choice(Favre has 15 RZ TDS, Warner has 18 RZ TDS, P. Manning has 14 RZ TDS) have plenty of success throwing TDs in the RED ZONE.

That's a really good point that I had never thought about. And it makes you wonder, we said JC has what, 8 or 9 TDs? Favre and Warner have nearly double that in the redzone alone.

Taking it one step further:

But one thing that really strikes me are the touchdowns from OUTSIDE the redzone. How many of these does JC have? Off the top of my head I can only think of the one against NO to close the game. Besides that I can't really think of one, and when he only has 9 to begin with...

In contrast, Favre has 5 Touchdowns from outside of the redzone, Manning has 5 as well, and Warner only has 3. These numbers might not seem very different, but the ability to strike from more then 20 yards out is huge. Even just the threat.

People are quick to point out that JC has a nice rating of 90.2. Not only is that only good for 12th in the league, merely average, but it fails to point out his bad stats as well.

JC is 13th in total yards, 16th in yards per game, tied for 19th in touchdowns (tied with trent edwards, joe flacco, matt schaub), 12th in first downs, 14th in plays of 20 or more yards, and tied for 21st with plays of over 40 yards.

I'm not a JC hater. I love the guy and, I'll say it again, he's just one step away. But you can't just look at his QB rating and say he's doing good because the stats show that he is terrible at establishing himself as a deep threat and only below average to average when it comes to gaining yards, moving the ball down field, moving the chains, and scoring touchdowns.