Shilsu Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are. I don't really have enough information to know, myself, but this seems eerily similar to Steve Spurrier's first run. At first, everyone ragged on the offensive line but the blame later shifted to his protection scheme. It's just hard to imagine the same offensive line could play so differently under Spurrier, Gibbs, and Zorn (Dockery played for Spurrier/Gibbs, Kendall and Rabach layed for Gibbs/Zorn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I think more of the scheme, were running such short patterns that the entire defense stays at the line, and is sending more blitzes then at the beginning of the season. And why not keep blitzing when you know JC is guaranteed to throw it to the shortest pattern. It seems we no longer have any more downfield passes, everything gets thrown for 10 yards and under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahones01 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I think it's both. MustangSteve pointed out some big problems with our scheme that lead to more blitzes from opposing defenses. When your O-line is struggling it only adds to the problem. With the scheme remaining so close to the line and defenses putting more and more pressure on a line that's not protecting, we're going to see JC go to IR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mac Patty Wack Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Our guys were getting beat one-on-one. It wasn't the scheme in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Brown Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I think more of the scheme, were running such short patterns that the entire defense stays at the line, and is sending more blitzes then at the beginning of the season. And why not keep blitzing when you know JC is guaranteed to throw it to the shortest pattern. It seems we no longer have any more downfield passes, everything gets thrown for 10 yards and under. the majority of the time there isn't enough time to let routes develop downfield. defenses have figured out that if they bring pressure the oline will fold. the short routes at least give us a chance to get the ball out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Our guys were getting beat one-on-one. It wasn't the scheme in my opinion. This was definitely true in the Dallas game. Cooley said they were rushing 5 guys and our offense should have been able to pick it up. In the Steelers game they were actually blitzing more and bringing more guys than we had so there were 7 sacks instead of 3 and JC was hit 5 more times after he threw the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MossFan89 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 It's just the lack of talent of both our DL and OL, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 The O-line was run blocking better early on. The lack of success in the run game has made it harder for them to pass block. D-linemen are less inclined to pin their ears back if they know they might get hit in their mouth. When you can't run d-linemen tend to t off because they know you have to pass. Its also harder for play action to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I have to go with O-Line, then Scheme. It seems to me there are times that JC is looking downfield, but can't get enough time to deliver the bomb. I think the scheme comes after that because I think with the revelation that the O-Line is not protecting well, now the plays are COMING closer to the line to help get the ball out faster & produce some breathing room for JC. But if the O-Line isn't protecting...I mean, they aren't even run blocking that well anymore...if you can't keep JC off the ground, the schemes are moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 It's not scheme. It's the blocking. It's also our receiver inability to get off of jams cleanly. Oh, and it's on Campbell because he feels pressure when there is none, and then he gets smacked around every other play because our lines technique is screwed up. Shoulder turns, helmets down is awful any way you slice it. Keep your shoulders square and head on a swivel. This is STILL a new system, folks. All the pieces have to run it correctly for it to work. The scheme itself is fine, but the engine needs some work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Randy Thomas is no longer a pro bowl guard and he is falling fast. Jansen is still good as a run blocker but has lost it after his surgeries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 The current scheme IS a result of the O-line. Early on, when we played New Orleans, Arizona and such, we were handling the pressure. Now, a couple of teams have exposed a weakness up the middle and are sending men right up the gut to disrupt the offense. We have no choice but to throw quick passes, screens and dumpoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Hmmm, with recent theories of how players don't know what they're supposed to do in protection... And seeing Mike Sellers look like an idiot on a few plays... I wonder which one it is... I know for a fact that RT is the weak link though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Well, partly it is the line, and remember they are a year older, but part of it is simple reputation. Once you get the reputation that you can be blitzed successfully, teams will blitz you until you make them pay for it and making them pay for it isn't JUST the OL. There are times when plays are there. When the OL does do a good enough job and some other facet fails. As long as teams feel like blitzing works, they will continue too and the OL will look bad. If we can make a couple of plays, then the blitzing will stop (or at least diminish) and the OL will look better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 JC calls the protections, he has to take a brunt of the blame for blown blitz assignments or Zorn for trusting him to make the calls. The one on one physical battles lost are on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoCommiesGo Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Little bit of both. But I think the complete lack of adjustment to fit the "scheme" to your players is on the coach. If we aren't built to run a WCO or a mid-west or whatever the hell it is than you need to change your scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4daskins Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 JC calls the protections, he has to take a brunt of the blame for blown blitz assignments or Zorn for trusting him to make the calls.The one on one physical battles lost are on the line. This is a myth. JC does not call out the protection. The protection "packages" are determined in practice. The o-coordinator or playcaller, I assume this is Zorn, determines the play and the protection. It's at the line of scrimmage where the "CENTER" can "ADJUST" the protection based on the setup of the defense. What is in question is - Is JC allowed to audible into another play which will alter the protection package? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Probably both - I have seen individual players beaten on the line, while the scheme itself has also proved faulty. I thought certain quick-release plays in the WCO would help to deter a pass rush, but we really haven't seen the 'Skins punish any teams for blitzing us. So, scheme, coaching, and the players personal responsibilities are all taking their toll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Jansen deserves plenty of heat for shoddy pass pro and the guys just seem like they always are pushed back and thus it seems that Jason is always throwing just as the pocket is about to collapse... Scheme may be a part of it too, but I don't know the plays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4daskins Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 It's just the lack of talent of both our DL and OL, period. Give this man a prize. This is the root of the problem!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Dude the line has been getting soundly whipped. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 This is a myth. JC does not call out the protection. The protection "packages" are determined in practice. The o-coordinator or playcaller, I assume this is Zorn, determines the play and the protection. It's at the line of scrimmage where the "CENTER" can "ADJUST" the protection based on the setup of the defense. What is in question is - Is JC allowed to audible into another play which will alter the protection package? Your post is incorrect. In Zorn's scheme, Zorn calls the play and formation, JC calls the protections. The center doesn't make any line calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Little bit of both. But I think the complete lack of adjustment to fit the "scheme" to your players is on the coach. If we aren't built to run a WCO or a mid-west or whatever the hell it is than you need to change your scheme. It would have been nice if our Front Office was capable of making this determination before we hired a WCO guy. Wasn't every other pundit questioning if we had the personnel to run such a system? Of course, we knew it was going to take some time for Zorn to acquire the players he needs to run the system that he wants. Hence, all of the second round draft choices from this past year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billfishead Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 It's just the lack of talent of both our DL and OL, period. Hail! Hail! The offensive line is way past it's prime. The inability of the front office to draft and sign offensive and defensive line is the root of the entire problem of this team. In my estimation until we sign a legitimate GM and fire Vinny, nothing will change for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4daskins Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Your post is incorrect. In Zorn's scheme, Zorn calls the play and formation, JC calls the protections. The center doesn't make any line calls. Are you sure...I sware I saw Rahbach making adjustments....maybe I am wrong. Do you have a place where I can confirm who makes protection calls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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