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cowpoke fans wishful thinking


Stone Cold

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read this article on the sportingnews website...here's an exerpt that i found humor in...

"Dallas fans who were hoping to find the next Troy Aikman and Emmitt Smith will have to make do with Chad Hutchinson and Troy Hambrick at quarterback and running back, at least for the time being.

Parcells said he wasn't planning on going after a running back in the early rounds just for the sake of replacing Smith.

"The worst thing we could do is draft a back and then have to draft another one next year," he said.

Parcells said he is still exploring options at quarterback.

The theory is that the Cowboys will sign a veteran who gets released after June 1, with the top candidates being Denver's Brian Griese and Miami's Ray Lucas, who played for Parcells with the New York Jets"

ah, thank god that bloody streak is over...i can now resume bashing in good conscience

:D

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Originally posted by RabidFan

Chad for 4 more years.....they'll never leave the division's cellar :cheers:

Like you Pigs are going to do anything for the next 5 years?

I know, I know, you have the best this and that? Oh really?

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I'd be surprised if Dallas didn't go out and get Griese. In fact, I would have thought they would have done it by now. It's amazing how little noise Griese makes ... he must have SERIOUS issues we don't fully know about.

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Originally posted by f1car

Like you Pigs are going to do anything for the next 5 years?

I know, I know, you have the best this and that? Oh really?

While what we've had hasn't been the greatest the past few years, it's still better then what you clowns have done in that period of time.

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Y'know, its funny, I looked at this thread and I thought to myself, "Its wierd that these guys are so down on Chad Hutchinson, but they have no questions about Patrick Ramsey"

So I set off to find a site that would allow me to compare 2 QBs side by side. The first thing I did was go to CNN/SI, NFL stats page, and click Passing. Well there they were, Nos 31 and 32.

rank player team games comp. att % yards ypa TD INT 1st Sck Rat

31. Hutchinson, Chad DAL 9 127 250 50.8 1555 6.2 7 8 63 34 66.3

32. Ramsey, Patrick WAS 9 117 227 51.5 1539 6.8 9 8 67 18 71.8

I'm not saying this means that Hutchinson is better than Ramsey, or that the Cowboys have hope but this Skins don't. I'm saying that these 2 teams QB situations are remarkably similar.

Ramsey will no doubt benefit from having the same system he worked in last year. Hutch is in the first year of the Carthon/Payton era, but the Lions and Giants offenses had WCO roots, anyway.

And just for shits and giggles, here's No. 33

33. Carter, Quincy DAL 7 125 221 56.6 1465 6.6 7 8 66 19 72.3

Anyway. Stone Cold ragging on Cowboys fans for wishful thinking is sort of like Michael Jackson seeing someone and saying "Man, what a weirdo." Glass houses, people.

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Originally posted by flashback

Y'know, its funny, I looked at this thread and I thought to myself, "Its wierd that these guys are so down on Chad Hutchinson, but they have no questions about Patrick Ramsey"

So I set off to find a site that would allow me to compare 2 QBs side by side. The first thing I did was go to CNN/SI, NFL stats page, and click Passing. Well there they were, Nos 31 and 32.

rank player team games comp. att % yards ypa TD INT 1st Sck Rat

31. Hutchinson, Chad DAL 9 127 250 50.8 1555 6.2 7 8 63 34 66.3

32. Ramsey, Patrick WAS 9 117 227 51.5 1539 6.8 9 8 67 18 71.8

I'm not saying this means that Hutchinson is better than Ramsey, or that the Cowboys have hope but this Skins don't. I'm saying that these 2 teams QB situations are remarkably similar.

Ramsey will no doubt benefit from having the same system he worked in last year. Hutch is in the first year of the Carthon/Payton era, but the Lions and Giants offenses had WCO roots, anyway.

And just for shits and giggles, here's No. 33

33. Carter, Quincy DAL 7 125 221 56.6 1465 6.6 7 8 66 19 72.3

Anyway. Stone Cold ragging on Cowboys fans for wishful thinking is sort of like Michael Jackson seeing someone and saying "Man, what a weirdo." Glass houses, people.

These are lame comparisons though. Ramsey might have "appeared" in 9 games, but 3 of those appearances were him just tossing hail mary's before the end of the 1st half. We should re-visit this after a full season for both Ramsey and Hutch and then decide.

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Originally posted by RabidFan

Chad for 4 more years.....they'll never leave the division's cellar :cheers:

Where in this statement I made did it state that Ramsey is a probowler....nowhere..... the end of the season was encouraging with Ramsey beating Houston while out firing #1 pick Carr, played admirably in a loss to Phi while throwing 2tds with a good completion avg and no TDS to maybe the 2nd best defense in the league, and winning against your beloved Cowboys and ending the streak. Encouraging is all I'm saying as you all feel the same for Chad.

Most cowboys fans say this year will be diff with a better o line....but if you had Laverne last year you'd know we had o-line woes as well. Yes this year for both Skins and Boys is really up to the development of our young QB's......

I see maturity and intelligence in Ramsey not just on the field but off....the kid just says all the right things....never complained about the o-line while picking his body off the ground after every throw....and garnered respect and leadership from the O-line.

With Chad, the kid is tough for sure....took a hilacious beating last season.....but mentally not sure he's too confident yet....and we all know and have seen how hard Tuna is on his QBs(see clips of rants to Simms in NYG days) and I remember the HBO "Hard Knocks" episode where Chad was scrambling to one sideline backwards ....didn't throw the ball before he stepped out of bounds and Campo shouted at him and Chad while almost crying said "I'm trying my best out here".......now if you almost cry from a barb from that muppet Campo......can't wait to see how he handled a Tuna tirade.....takes a certain type of person to accept that abuse with knowledge it will make you better and stronger mentally.....(see Tiger Woods and father).

should be an interesting year... nuff splaining for you now?

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should be an interesting year... nuff splaining for you now?

I think so. You're saying the Cowboys will finish last in the division for 4 more years because... Bill Parcells will be mean to Chad Hutchinson?

Looks like we agree on just about everything else.:cheers:

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Flashback,

Ramsey played as the starter or substantially as a reserve in seven games. In those seven the Redskins were the eighth best offense in football in terms of yards per game on average. As I've said before, if you can forgive him for his cold weather game and just make it six games, the team was No. 3 on average in those six.

If you are comforted that in nine starts Hutchinson had "similar" numbers to Ramsey in five starts and two relief appearances, then you be comforted. But, let me make a promise to you. If it takes Hutchinson nine games to be worse, close I know but still worse, to Ramsey is in around seven games for the rest of their lives, what that'll mean is you guys have no chance in hell :). Here's to hoping you're right :).

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just to throw my 2 cents into these arguments. I think a lot also has to do with the system a QB plays in and the support he has around them. Who would have thought that Brad Johsnon would be the winning QB in the superbowl. Everyone here called him a dead arm QB, but as a team Tampa had enough support defensively and offensively to succeed.

KC had a prolific offense that would be hard to match, but they ended up on the outside looking in.

Also as I said, it depends on the system and what's expected of a QB. Garcia doens't have the fastest feet, stongetst arm (even considered weak by many) but he succeeds in their West coast system.

For the skins I think Ramsey is the focal point, as Ramsey goes so will the skins offense. Its an offense built around the passing game and versatatlity of the WRs.

for Dallas it won't be an offense built around passing, though they would need to improve their passing game to have more offensive success in both phases of the offensive game. The cowboys will probably emphasize power running game and running between the tackles as it seems the offensive line and the RB are more suited to that type of offense. Last year the cowboys had their woes, specially when you lose your best OL and go through what they did (and before you start about skins OL injuries, you must admit the cowboys situation was more dire from that prespective given that most of you here stated that the skins had better OL and better depth to start with).

Was there an improvement for ramsey over the season? of course any fool can see that. Was there improvement for Chad over the season? of course, again any fool can see that. It will take Chad longer to reach where a QB needs to be, given that he was away from Football for 4 years as compared to Ramsey who played College ball before last year. Did he show flashes? yes, when the OL was able to protect him just enough for him to make some throws. Will he be better this year? I hope so. Will ramsey go through sophmore jinx? you don't hope so? but I tell you what, if it wasn't for all these speculations in the off season....it would be darn boring without the actual games :)

But, still I think a lot of these head to head comparisons are useless and don't convey everything. Will chad have to play at a top notch level for dallas to succeed. I don't think that's necessary, average or above average would be a significant improvement. Will Ramsey have to play at a high level for the skins to improve? most likely, since they are hinging everything on their passing game and Ramsey is the key.

Come next year, Ramsey will have a lot more passing yards than Chad (for sure). But Aikman never lead the league in passing yet he is a sure hall of famer (and before some of you start, I am not saying Hutch is going to be a hall of famer). the past few years teams have won without top notch QBs (except maybe Warner). The game has changed. as in the past you don't need to have a top notch QB to gaurantee success. There are different ways to skin the cat as the saying goes. I think having a solid running game and good defense are still the big keys to success.

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Let me start off by saying that I post this in the most sincere and civil tone possible. Art, you said "the Redskins were the eighth best offense in football in terms of yards per game on average."

Could you break that down for me? What you're saying is in those 8 games, the 'Skins offense averaged X yards, which was higher than the 8th best offense at the end of the year?

I take zero comfort in the fact that Chad Hutchinson's numbers (forget the yards, look at the completion %, the YPA, the TDs and INTs, the Rating) are close, but worse ;) , than Ramsey's. I find it a mildly surprising (and maybe a little amusing) that you (not you in particular, Art, but RedskinFan in general) take so much comfort in the fact that Ramsey's numbers are similar (but better), than Hutch's (in fewer games, of course).

If you want my opinion of Chad Hutchinson, Art, all you have to do is ask.:cool:

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TEG:

I agree that we have two big question marks on the offensive side of the ball. After JJ gave up the dream of another run with Aikman we went through a tearing down process, tried a quick fix approach (more like wishful thinking and shooting in the dark) that failed and drafted well this past draft and last year. The team is young. its a new system new coach and some question marks. The biggest of the two being QB and RB. There was no FA RB worth going after since we are not ready to make a run, thus Davis didn't make sense and we could spend the money other places which cowboys did.

There was no RB worth taking in the draft, so they are rolling the dice on Hambrick. This is his chance to proove himself and he knows it. We do need a strong running game to have success otherwise its like the past two years.

We also need the passing game to be a little better to allow the defenses to play the cowboys a little more honestly and not play 8 man in the box all the time.

Hambrick and Hutch's play will determine our success this year.

I am not sure if we are going to get out of the 5-11 hell that we have been stuck at given that we are young, and new system and we play one of the toughest schedules in the league this year, but I think we have enough talent and given the new coaching regime to get to 6-10 or 7-9 and in my opinion that's a great improvement (again due to the schedule).

For the redskins, I believe one of the RBs needs to come through besides ramsey's play. Teams need to respect the Running game not to play with extra saftey or CB against the offense which makes it difficult to pass. Its exactly the opposite of the cowboys, as we need play from QB to make the Running game work, you need some running support to make the passing game work. That's why I think signing of canidate (who does have a chip on his shoulder now) makes sense, he should be able to use his speed to take advantage of the spread offense against spread defenses.

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Flashback,

I think I said in the seven games Ramsey played significantly, either as a starter or heavily used reserve, that the Redskins, on average, were the No. 8 offense in football in terms of yards per game. If you forgive Ramsey for his cold weather outing against Green Bay, the Redskins were No. 3.

If you'd like a breakdown, I suppose that's ok. In the seven games Ramsey played significantly in with five being as a starter, a sixth being after a single series and a seventh being for a half or so, the Redskins averaged 361.5 yards per game in offensive output in those contests, which, on average, ranked eighth. If you'll give him a mulligan for Green Bay, the Redskins averaged 381 yards per game with Ramsey in for the other six games, which ranked third.

Neither of these stats is all that meaningful, save that even with Ramsey being a typical rookie, confused at times and missing plays, his accuracy and skill opened up the whole of the offense to perform at a far superior level with him in it than with him on the bench.

What I continue to find surprising and even mildly amusing is you think you're scoring points by pointing out that it took Chad what amounted to 2.5 more games to come up with similar, though worse, numbers than Ramsey. Again, if your point is that in 6.5 games Ramsey can outperform Hutchinson in 9 games, then, you're on to something because that's what happened :).

To be honest, I'm somewhat stunned you think you are being all that illustrative here in asserting the two were that close given just how not close they actually were.

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