BigMike619 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 wow...how many people does he have to be tied to or affiliated with before you finally see past the smirk and charm? if i didnt know any better i would swear you were all snake charmed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 The Wright issue has been discussed to death but I personally didn't find the rants "racist" and wasn't surprised to hear some of the stuff in a black church, and other things he said I just found stupid. I have said many times that I wouldn't want everything my pastor said to be used as a reflection on me and so I'm not willing to use this against Obama. I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 wow...how many people does he have to be tied to or affiliated with before you finally see past the smirk and charm?if i didnt know any better i would swear you were all snake charmed... 1) I thought you were staying out of political discussions until the election 2) You mean like Palin doesn't have any connections or affiliations which could be used against her - and the Republican base couldn't just as easily be called "snake charmed"? 3) This post was made with complete respect to your OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 1 - It's easy to say that you can't remember one man having so many bad associations when you get to decide what bad is. How many members of Iran contra were connected to Bush? McCain was an active member of a group supporting death squads and connected to Iran contra.... none of those count because they were right wing death squads and right wing secret arms dealing. 2 - The association between Ayers and Obama couldn't be more flimsy. Same board WITH REPUBLICANS (that part is always left out) that was funded by a close friend of Reagan (another part that gets left out). There is no proven relationship between Obama and Ayers other than those one could expect by too men involved in politics in the same area of the country. This story didn't have legs when it first sprang up and still doesn't now. 3 - Keep talking about Ayers while the economy tanks and I'll keep watching states on realclear switch from grey to blue and red to grey. It's the economy stupid, especially in times when the economy is being hit in a manner especially destructive to the net worth of the middle class. Retirement accounts and property values are both being slammed at the same time crushing the two largest assets of most americans. They don't care about a weak vague association between Ayers and Obama - they want to know what is being done to get their money back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 1... 2... 3... No offense, but why write so much. This article actually makes the argument itself. Obama is a politician who had politically expedient allies while in Chicago. It's in the article itself. I don't usually use smileys, is there a yawning one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 wow...how many people does he have to be tied to or affiliated with before you finally see past the smirk and charm?if i didnt know any better i would swear you were all snake charmed... How about you stop trying guilt by association entirely? That's the weakness you seemto struggle with. You can "associate" him with 20 more Ayers types but if the association is weak and none of the associate appears to be present in Obama it's not going to stick. Here's an idea focus on the issues! Oh right... McCain couldn't even hold his own on foriegn policy when it came to the issues. Better start digging through high school yearbooks in hopes that his 8th grade science partner was a bad guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 1) I thought you were staying out of political discussions until the election2) You mean like Palin doesn't have any connections or affiliations which could be used against her - and the Republican base couldn't just as easily be called "snake charmed"? 3) This post was made with complete respect to your OP 1) got tired of seeing the left side try to duck and dodge everything and spin it until it makes mccain look bad. 2)obama is caught with yet another tie and you wanna make this about palin. try speaking about wha tthe thread is about "OBAMA" and friends. This thread has nothing to do with palin or mccain. make one about them if you want. actually there is one about her already. 3) dont worry about respecting me, i know who you are. were cool even if we get in to heated discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 How about you stop trying guilt by association entirely? That's the weakness you seemto struggle with. You can "associate" him with 20 more Ayers types but if the association is weak and none of the associate appears to be present in Obama it's not going to stick.Here's an idea focus on the issues! Oh right... McCain couldn't even hold his own on foriegn policy when it came to the issues. Better start digging through high school yearbooks in hopes that his 8th grade science partner was a bad guy. how about you trying to stop clearing him of these associations and actually make him answer up to what he is doing being with these people. obama is telling you what you wanna hear and you arent even willing to dig even a little bit deeper to see what he has to say. focus on the issue? this thread says NOTHING about mccain but you have put him in your post. why dont YOU focus on the issue here and what this thread was made about, OBAMA AND HIS FRIENDS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Considering that a large amount of people consider Bill Clinton to have been a good President - at least in comparison to Bush . . . I'll gladly take your scenario, even though I'm aware that not all of the prosperity enjoyed during the 90's was a result of Clinton.Either way, I fully anticipate the next President to be one term and done. Who on earth is going to run against President Obama in 2012 with a shot to win? My personal favorite Mark Sanford is too smart to run in 2012. Mitt Romney? Bobby Jindal? Mike Huckabee? Sarah Palin? The cupboard will be pretty bare. It'll be a repeat of the 1996 election Now I am giving soon to be President Obama credit that he won't do something dumb like have the AWB reinstated 10 weeks before a midterm election. If he avoids giving up any red meat, he'll be in office, along with Dems, for the next 8 years easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 1) got tired of seeing the left side try to duck and dodge everything and spin it until it makes mccain look bad. 2)obama is caught with yet another tie and you wanna make this about palin. try speaking about wha tthe thread is about "OBAMA" and friends. This thread has nothing to do with palin or mccain. make one about them if you want. actually there is one about her already. 3) dont worry about respecting me, i know who you are. were cool even if we get in to heated discussions. The point I was trying to make is simple. I don't think Palin is anti-America anymore than I think Obama is a terrorist or shares political views with a former domestic terrorist. I'm simply trying to say it's kind of hard to make the argument that this should be used against Obama unless you are willing to use the so-called "dirt" against the other side as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Who on earth is going to run against President Obama in 2012 with a shot to win?My personal favorite Mark Sanford is too smart to run in 2012. Mitt Romney? Bobby Jindal? Mike Huckabee? Sarah Palin? The cupboard will be pretty bare. It'll be a repeat of the 1996 election Now I am giving soon to be President Obama credit that he won't do something dumb like have the AWB reinstated 10 weeks before a midterm election. If he avoids giving up any red meat, he'll be in office, along with Dems, for the next 8 years easily You never know who could come along - the Republicans could have their own young future political star come along before the next election. I hope in 4 years Obama (or McCain) has EARNED another 4 years in the opinion of many Americans because that means the country is back to heading in a positive direction - and to me that's more important than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 The point I was trying to make is simple. I don't think Palin is anti-America anymore than I think Obama is a terrorist or shares political views with a former domestic terrorist.I'm simply trying to say it's kind of hard to make the argument that this should be used against Obama unless you are willing to use the so-called "dirt" against the other side as well. but nobody tied to palin is saying things against white people like wright did. she may be small town but she isnt tied to racists. there are too many people around obama that are questionable and shady. and every time something comes out about them its like a rallying cry for all of the libs to come running to his aid. i wish someone from the left side would be like, "what is really up with all of these people obama? why are there so many?" just one time make him answer for it. i would be interested in what he would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 You never know who could come along - the Republicans could have their own young future political star come along before the next election.I hope in 4 years Obama (or McCain) has EARNED another 4 years in the opinion of many Americans because that means the country is back to heading in a positive direction - and to me that's more important than anything. well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 You never know who could come along - the Republicans could have their own young future political star come along before the next election.I hope in 4 years Obama (or McCain) has EARNED another 4 years in the opinion of many Americans because that means the country is back to heading in a positive direction - and to me that's more important than anything. You'd know of a potential "star" now. And sorry guys, Sarah Palin really isn't it, and will soon be no more then a trivia question Mark Sanford could be, but again I think he is smart enough to realize running 2012 would be silly. I'll hold my breath before the RNC nominates a brown 40 year old dude from Baton Rouge in Bobby Jindal. And that is about it Again, President Obama with the wind at his back in 2012 will be an easy re-election, UNLESS he does something moronic that would give any red meat up to the right Seeing how he has campaigned, I don't think he'll be that dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 but nobody tied to palin is saying things against white people like wright did. she may be small town but she isnt tied to racists. Palin may not be tied to "racists" but she is supposedly tied to people who want to secede from the U.S. Not to mention a pastor who believes that anyone who votes Democratic is going to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Palin may not be tied to "racists" but she is supposedly tied to people who want to secede from the U.S. as well as pastors who think that anyone who votes Democrat is going to hell. show me that please. and on another note; i am stunned to see people who are obviously educated leave tags like the ones left in these threads. its embarrassing for all of us and just disrespectful to both sides of the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 but nobody tied to palin is saying things against white people like wright did. she may be small town but she isnt tied to racists. there are too many people around obama that are questionable and shady. and every time something comes out about them its like a rallying cry for all of the libs to come running to his aid. i wish someone from the left side would be like, "what is really up with all of these people obama? why are there so many?" just one time make him answer for it. i would be interested in what he would say. Numbering again: 1) I don't believe what I heard Wright say was "racist" - I don't believe the people running the country accurately represent the diversity of the country in either ethnicity or gender. 2) Obama has already answered the questions you seem to say he hasn't. In fact I'm pretty sure he was on a conservative talk radio station in PA this past week and I thought he did a good job of explaining the Ayers connection - if that wasn't good enough I felt Michelle Obama did a great job of explaining it on Larry King as well. That's my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 This OP-ED from right-winger Michael Smerconish pretty much sums up my feelings on all of this: http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20081009_Michael_Smerconish__Obama___Ayers__Guilt_by_association_.html Michael Smerconish: Obama & Ayers: Guilt by association?By Michael Smerconish - Daily News Philadelphia Daily News Daily News Opinion Columnist ON Saturday, the New York Times made front-page news of William Ayers' relationship with Barack Obama, catapulting the stuff of talk radio and conservative ire into the mainstream media. Ayers is the onetime leader of the Weather Underground, a 1970s domestic terrorist organization responsible for bombing several government buildings. He has since become an education professor in Chicago, where his community work has been lauded by Mayor Richard Daley, among others. Although it seems Obama has attempted to downplay his relationship with Ayers, it also doesn't look like the two were particularly close. They lived in the same neighborhood and worked together on community projects in the 1990s. Ayers hosted an event for Obama when the Democratic presidential nominee first launched his political career in Chicago. In 2001, he made a $200 donation to Obama's state Senate campaign. Obama, for his part, has condemned the crimes committed by Ayers and the Weathermen. Like others, I'm troubled by Ayers. If he were indeed a close friend of Obama, it would be a deal breaker. I couldn't cast my presidential vote for a man who befriended a bomber. It's bad enough for Obama to sit passively through the ravings of a guy like Rev. Wright. But to befriend - or even associate with for the purpose of political advancement - a man who actually attacked the country is entirely another. But if the facts suggest that Ayers is on the periphery of Obama's public life, it raises a different question: Should candidates be held accountable for the conduct of their acquaintances? Because if we begin to judge people's character based on those in their orbit with whom they have no real relationship, I may as well surrender my pen. While no one in any circle of my life has bombed a building in the U.S., there are some real characters - a few have done time, some have probably cheated on their wives, one I suspect of tax fraud and quite a number are in the DUI club. Should my acquaintances hinder my ability to be a journalist? There's even a guy I know who is 50ish and still smokes pot. A better concert companion you will not find. I have a distant relative who relishes paying the IRS far less than his fair share of taxes. I remember when a onetime neighbor attempted to off herself. And another who, unfortunately, was successful. Some guys I went to high school with ran a big bookmaking ring. One former public servant writes to me from prison and I write back. When I worked in government, I had to fire a guy when it was revealed that he owed casinos hundreds of thousands in gambling debts. I should've known he was too connected down the Shore when he got me front-row seats for Sinatra at the Sands. Speaking of connected, there was the time I attended a wedding at the Ben Franklin Hotel, where Joey Merlino was also a guest. I think somebody other than the hired photographer took my picture on the way inside. More people paid their respects to Merlino than to the groom. Obama likes to remind us that he was 8 when Ayers participated in those destructive acts. Well, when I was 10, G. Gordon Liddy broke into the Watergate Hotel. Eight years later, I took him to dinner when he came to speak on my college campus. (And, for the record, I condemn the actions of those involved in Watergate.) If we start to play Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon when selecting public servants, we'd better be ready for a diminished pool of candidates. (That might include Sen. McCain, whose dealings on behalf of Charles Keating were enough to garner a wrist slap from the Senate Ethics Committee almost 20 years ago.) If the vetting process for a presidential candidate now extends to people with whom they've had even minimal contact, it may keep some otherwise qualified individuals out of the system. I suspect not too many in the seminary or rabbinical school are ready to run for office. * Listen to Michael Smerconish weekdays 5-9 a.m. on the Big Talker, 1210/AM. Read him Sundays in the Inquirer. Contact him via the Web at www.mastalk.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 show me that please. http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature...can/print.html Oct. 07, 2008 | "My government is my worst enemy. I'm going to fight them with any means at hand." This was former revolutionary terrorist Bill Ayers back in his old Weather Underground days, right? Imagine what Sarah Palin is going to do with this incendiary quote as she tears into Barack Obama this week. Only one problem. The quote is from Joe Vogler, the raging anti-American who founded the Alaska Independence Party. Inconveniently for Palin, that's the very same secessionist party that her husband, Todd, belonged to for seven years and that she sent a shout-out to as Alaska governor earlier this year. ("Keep up the good work," Palin told AIP members. "And God bless you.") AIP chairwoman Lynette Clark told me recently that Sarah Palin is her kind of gal. "She's Alaskan to the bone ... she sounds just like Joe Vogler." So who are these America-haters that the Palins are pallin' around with? Before his strange murder in 1993, party founder Vogler preached armed insurrection against the United States of America. Vogler, who always carried a Magnum with him, was fond of saying, "When the [federal] bureaucrats come after me, I suggest they wear red coats. They make better targets. In the federal government are the biggest liars in the United States, and I hate them with a passion. They think they own [Alaska]. There comes a time when people will choose to die with honor rather than live with dishonor. That time may be coming here. Our goal is ultimate independence by peaceful means under a minimal government fully responsive to the people. I hope we don't have to take human life, but if they go on tramping on our property rights, look out, we're ready to die." This quote is from "Coming Into the Country," by John McPhee, who traipsed around Alaska's remote gold mining country with Vogler for his 1991 book. The violent-tempered secessionist vowed to McPhee that if any federal official tried to stop him from polluting Alaska's rivers with his earth-moving equipment, he would "run over him with a Cat and turn mosquitoes loose on him while he dies." Vogler wasn't just a blowhard either. He put his secessionist ideas into action, working to build AIP membership to 20,000 -- an impressive figure by Alaska standards -- and to elect party member Walter Hickel as governor in 1990. Vogler's greatest moment of glory was to be his 1993 appearance before the United Nations to denounce United States "tyranny" before the entire world and to demand Alaska's freedom. The Alaska secessionist had persuaded the government of Iran to sponsor his anti-American harangue. That's right ... Iran. The Islamic dictatorship. The taker of American hostages. The rogue nation that McCain and Palin have excoriated Obama for suggesting we diplomatically engage. That Iran. http://talkingincircles.net/2008/09/07/sarah-palins-radical-religious-beliefs/ Along those lines, one of the big scandals of this election year was that of Reverend Wright, Obama’s radical pastor. Obama denounced the extreme teachings of Wright, of course, but for many people that wasn’t enough — and they can legitimately argue that Obama might have been influenced by Wright’s teachings, even if he claims otherwise. Now, however, we have Palin, the Wasilla Assembly of God, and pastor Ed Kalnins.Kalnins gives Wright a run for his money. He claimed that critics of Bush will be doomed to hell, and questions whether people who voted for Kerry in 2004 will be allowed into heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Numbering again:1) I don't believe what I heard Wright say was "racist" - I don't believe the people running the country accurately represent the diversity of the country in either ethnicity or gender. 2) Obama has already answered the questions you seem to say he hasn't. In fact I'm pretty sure he was on a conservative talk radio station in PA this past week and I thought he did a good job of explaining the Ayers connection - if that wasn't good enough I felt Michelle Obama did a great job of explaining it on Larry King as well. That's my opinion. that larry king "bit" was a fluff piece and he just let her say whatever she wanted to say and not question her any further after she "answered" things. larry is about as political as the cackling hens on the view. :2cents: "the United States of White America" and "the US of KKK-A." if thats not plain ol racism then I dont know what is. if i walked around saying "united states of blacky's america" i would be suspended from here plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 GACOLB..thats an interesting article and I want to quote it. Although it seems Obama has attempted to downplay his relationship with Ayers, it also doesn't look like the two were particularly close. They lived in the same neighborhood and worked together on community projects in the 1990s. Ayers hosted an event for Obama when the Democratic presidential nominee first launched his political career in Chicago. In 2001, he made a $200 donation to Obama's state Senate campaign. Obama, for his part, has condemned the crimes committed by Ayers and the Weathermen. now thats over a decade of "associating". you and i dont even know each other 1 year and I know you have lived in SD, shaved your head when you were younger, love brazilian women and now live back in NoVa. imagine after 10+ years of being around each other you and i would know each other. and if I denounced things you did and came out and said i didnt approve of you, why would i continue to associate around you? and why would i accept money, even 1 penny, from you? serious here and not looking to talk ****... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature...can/print.htmlhttp://talkingincircles.net/2008/09/07/sarah-palins-radical-religious-beliefs/ interesting but he sounds more like MSF then a racist or anything else. I could be being biased and I admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 "the United States of White America" and "the US of KKK-A." if thats not plain ol racism then I dont know what is. That's not necessarily racist. Is it a inaccurate statement? Yes. But that is his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 interesting but he sounds more like MSF then a racist or anything else. I could be being biased and I admit it. Good comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 He's exhibited horrible judgement in his associations. That cannot be denied. So, Dems keep trying to sweep it under the rug. Funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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