Poll: Bugel: An Honest Assessment of His Coaching Today

[elkabong82]

Thanks for the input, and you make some good points.

However, at least in this case, it isn't posters "acting like....". These are Portis' own words.

When he says that occasionally he wishes he was on a team "with the best offensive line, or a better scheme", he in insinuating displeasure with something.

It could be with the o-line players themselves. It could be a shot at Vinny for not drafting those positions. It could be a shot at JC and our lack of a passing game.....it could be at the receivers, also contributing to the lack of a passing game....or it could be at the blocking scheme, and Bugel.

And while the stats do tell part of the story--by no means do they tell the entire story.

Basically, we have had two seasons of middle of the pack rushing yardage and sacks........and two exceptional seasons.

But rushing yards alone.....without emphasizing the number of rushing attempts can be deceiving. We run a lot more than most, so that has to be discounted.

Add in the scout that drafted him, and his criticisms of the blocking schemes we are using, and it brings up a few questions.

It just strikes me as interesting. I wonder who, or what, he is most displeased with.

I know CP has, at one time or another, said he wasn't a fan of the system. However, he never said he couldn't be good in it. That is what I meant, that I can't stand it when people act like CP isn't that good and they base it primarily off the fact he had better numbers in Denver. He's had good numbers here as well. That's all I was really trying to say.

I understand CP's frustration with the line, but that comment, I'm assuming, came from '07 when half the line was out.

I don't think it is the blocking scheme, as it is geared towards Gibbs' scheme, and as I showed produced good results overall. I said the team grew complacent with the OL. They could have drafted a young guy or two earlier than they had before this year's draft, but we did have needs elsewhere. I even faulted the team before on trading away too many picks at times for "wants" instead of "needs" thus limiting what we could do in the draft. I don't understand how you can think the blocking scheme isn't good when I've shown you what our run game and sacks allowed has been under Buges. '07 is the only time in recent memory part of our OL has looked real bad, and that was because the starters were injured. Despite being limited to only succesfully running to the left, the team still put up great numbers for the OL, as I showed.

2 seasons of middle of the pack rushing? We were 21st in '04, Gibbs and Buges first season back. Then we were 7th, then 4th, and last year 12th. I don't see why you are trying to hold that over Buges' head, when he should be praised for even managing 12th without Thomas and Jansen all season, having injured back-ups replace him and a rookie UDFA who is now our starting RT.

We do run more than most. However you seem to have missed the part where I said Gibbs' scheme is set-up for short yards and a grind out run game, as opposed to Denver's quick strike. It's 2 different philosophies, and both have proven succesful in today's NFL.

And if you think there is really is a major problem with the OL blocking, then you have to give even more credit to CP for doing what he's done with the Skins. If it's not a problem with blocking, it's the scheme or offensive system as a whole. But like I said, Gibbs had a different philosophy, which emphasizes ball control and many carries, it doesn't emphasize big rushing stats. If you can understand the fundamental differences there, then you can understand why less yards on rushing doesn't mean the OL is the culprit.

If you are going to discount CP's rush yards because of attempts, and not even consider the oft-injured back-ups he was running behind last season, then I am going to discount the words of Sundquist. He hit gold with CP, but how has Denver done in drafting a RB since? Not once did Sundquist mention the difference in schemes, as I pointed out earlier. He bases his opinion solely off CP not having equal number in DC as he did in Denver, and tries to use the impression CP "dances around" to back it up. That's bush league for a head scout. They know the differences in schemes and philosophies, and how significant that is, yet no mention. Then there is the lame cop out, that CP dances around, as his evidence? Sorry, you don't break franchise rushing records by "dancing around." It's not always wise to trust former employers.

[DCsportsfan53]

I can't tell you if it's the players, the scheme or the coaching.....all I can tell you is, for whatever reason, the offensive line has never neared the level I expected when Buges showed up. Take that for what it's worth but I'm ****ing tired of seeing Portis have to dodge people in the backfield and almost never get a chance to get to the second level clean.

[Sonny9TD]

Whatever you say. Grow up.

And BTW- despite your ignorant comment, you CLEARLY and Intentionally edited your post addressed to PCS specifically to throw in the ridiculous AVATAR comment.

Yes I did intentionally do it because he acted as if being a mod makes him important in his own eyes. But since your intentions are to get on his good side I see why you attack me instead when pointing out the basis of his grandiose vision of himself and yours too apparently. You are just pretending outrage. You just want to be in the AVATAR crowd.

[brandymac27]

Oh that avatar. I meant every word of that. Grow up yourself and stay out of other peoples business when you are clearly trying to get on his good side because of his avatar. If he wasn't a mod you never would have said anything. I know this and so do you. Your grow up comments were intended for a mirror.

First of all, you don't know me from a whole in the wall. Don't for a second presume that you know ANYTHING about me. I most certainly would have defended anyone else, mod or not, especially if someone felt it absolutely necessary to show his ass on a message board-exactly like you did. There was absolutely no need to go back and edit your post just to make that assinine avatar comment. You COULD have left well enough alone, but instead, you just had to get the last word in.

And as far as I'm concerned, when I have to read your ridiculous post to begin with, you're inviting me, along with any other person who reads this thread to get involved. This thread was supposed to be about Bugel, NOT PCS's AVATAR.

[jthor99]

I don't buy this theory. We ran zone blocking schemes (effectivley) when Gibbs/Saunder was here. Remember, when Gibbs first came here he altered this run scheme to suit Portis strengths (cut back lanes). Now, he didn't use that scheme as often as I would of liked, but he certainly used it, and when it was used it was effective

Al Saunders used the same thing. The issue I have or had with it is I felt that it wasn't used enough. Gibbs wanted to go back to that power style of football, which I also know that Buges favors. I personally think Buge's is fine. He needs to be there coaching the OL. The players love him and respect him and more importantly want to play there guts out for him (Sorry for the JG analogy). But, in reality with that zone blocking scheme it needs to be ran more often IMO. Even with Coach Zorn, heck last week against the Giants I think I remember seeing it used once or twice . This is what fits Portis strengths, and I think we need to see more of it

[Larry Brown #43]

While we love him as a man, and respect him for being a primary part of our Superbowl successes......if his name was John Smith, as opposed to Joe Bugel......how would you rate the job he has done over the last few seasons....and the job he is doing now?

Let's see...last year we lost 40% of our starting offensive line for the season almost before the season even began, and we were forced to pick up a starting left guard at the 11th hour before the season started and work him into the mix...and yet somehow we made it work. I'm guessing Bugel had something to do with that.

And I'm also guessing Buges didn't forget how to coach over the summer. He can only work with what he's got.

[Mister Happy]

The formula for stopping the Skins offense has been the same for years: Stack the box to stop Portis and force us to beat you in the air.

We always play with a condensed field because we never throw it deep, and teams know it. Until we start to stretch the field, there will always be a crowded line of scrimmage for Portis to run through.

Portis is right. Most teams give their backs more room to run, but it's not because our line is bad. It's because they have to block 8 or 9 guys instead of 6 or 7.

[brandymac27]

Let's see...last year we lost 40% of our starting offensive line for the season almost before the season even began, and we were forced to pick up a starting left guard at the 11th hour before the season started and work him into the mix...and yet somehow we made it work. I'm guessing Bugel had something to do with that.

And I'm also guessing Buges didn't forget how to coach over the summer. He can only work with what he's got.

I agree with you. I think he's done the best that he can given the circumstances. I think there is always room for improvement, but he can only do so much with what's given to him. And I don't know for sure, but I would think he would have addressed the line issue. He can't force anyone to draft linemen if they don't want to. I'm not willing to point any fingers towards him, because we don't really know what the circumstances have been.

[A Walton]

I don't think that it is Bugel...he does not draft for this team. He does not bring in head coaches or offensive philosophy(WCO).

It is not his fault that Vinny is a retard.

[bubba9497]

You guys do realize Buges went through the most horrible experience a parent can... in losing a child

He missed a couple weeks, and I'm sure his attention to detail at times were shaken by that event. As well as the OL who is very close to him. give him a little time to get back 100%

[Sonny9TD]

First of all, you don't know me from a whole in the wall. Don't for a second presume that you know ANYTHING about me. I most certainly would have defended anyone else, mod or not, especially if someone felt it absolutely necessary to show his ass on a message board-exactly like you did. There was absolutely no need to go back and edit your post just to make that assinine avatar comment. You COULD have left well enough alone, but instead, you just had to get the last word in.

And as far as I'm concerned, when I have to read your ridiculous post to begin with, you're inviting me, along with any other person who reads this thread to get involved. This thread was supposed to be about Bugel, NOT PCS's AVATAR.

I didn't start the whole stupid thing. The Avatar statement was right on the money since he is the one who thinks he is important because of the AVATAR. Read his last post where his arrogance is profound AVATAR girl. He started it and I retorted to his arrogance. How dare you tell me what is ridiculous when you are clearly bias for brownie points. As if I wasn't going to defend myself against his ridiculous comments. I will respond any way I like. So clearly your pretend outrage is motivating this.

[brandymac27]

I didn't start the whole stupid thing. The Avatar statement was right on the money since he is the one who thinks he is important because of the AVATAR. Read his last post where his arrogance is profound AVATAR girl. He started it and I retorted to his arrogance. How dare you tell me what is ridiculous when you are clearly bias for brownie points. As if I wasn't going to defend myself against his ridiculous comments. I will respond any way I like. So clearly you pretend outrage is motivating this.

I'm done discussing this with you in this thread. It's not fair to the OP or others who have to read it. From here on out, if you have issues, let's take it outside.

[TheLongshot]

You guys do realize Buges went through the most horrible experienced a parent can... in losing a child

He missed a couple weeks, and I'm sure his attention to detail at times were shaken by that event. As well as the OL who is very close to him. give hima little time to get back 100%

I suggested as much with the Carolina meltdown in the preseason.

Jason

[Sonny9TD]

I'm done discussing this with you in this thread. It's not fair to the OP or others who have to read it. From here on out, if you have issues, let's take it outside.

There you go. Maybe you are cool.

[brandymac27]

There you go. Maybe you are cool.

I try...

[Redskins4ever]

Bugel knows what he's doing. The game isn't passing him by. The game is much different than it was during the 1980s when he was Gibbs's assistant before. The players on defense at every position are more skillful, more athletic, and their surely faster than those players of 25 years ago. The linebackers, defensive lineman, and defensive backs are able to get to the QB with precison and speed. Blitzing is the norm.

The personnell Bugel is working with is nowhere as good as the original Hogs. So, don't blame it on Bugel. Blame it on the times.

[Sonny9TD]

I try...

to you Brandy. I might even drink 2 on your behalf.

[tone_dubbz]

I just don't understand why we didn't address the need of youth on the offensive line. Our TEs can't run block for squat, and rushing Portis up the middle everytime is getting rediculous.

I feel bad for Portis, because our line isn't doing the job. I feel bad for Campbell too because the line can't pass block all that great either.

[Neophyte]

I don't think we as fans can really have a clue about this issue. Consider all the things we can't know at all:

-The play call.

-The line call.

-Adjustments to the line call by the QB.

-Responsibilities of the TE and RB on any given play.

And the list goes on.

This is a team sport for a reason. Do I think our line is as good as should be? No but then I have thought we needed to be drafting more linemen and we haven't. So whose fault is that? The FO or Buges?

[bubba9497]

I just don't understand why we didn't address the need of youth on the offensive line.

you mean like starting 2 year pro Heyer, drafting Rinehart, and cutting Wade to keep 2 year pro Geisinger?

Our TEs can't run block for squat, and rushing Portis up the middle every time is getting ridiculous.

yeah Yoder was kept because of his pass catching ability

and according to JLC we ran mostly LEFT against the Giants. Of Portis' 23 carries (84 yards) 9 went left (54 yards) , 6 went right (15 yards), 8 up the middle (15 yards)

I feel bad for Portis, because our line isn't doing the job. I feel bad for Campbell too because the line can't pass block all that great either.

yeah 84 yards rushing, and allowing only 1 sack was HORRIBLE against a good Giants defense on the road

[eljeasel]

1. Great Tags
   
2. I read last year on the forums that Buges made Chicken salad from chicken, well, you know. And thats probably right. Last year is probably the biggest example of how he still got it. Loses Dock, Big Randy, Jansen (may have lost him earlier) all in the same season. He helped take that and turn it into a not great but at sometimes good line last year with a 34 year old Kendall, UDFA Heyer, and a 32? year old Fabini Tackle moving into guard. Those guys went out and competed last year and at times were protecting well and to a lesser extent were run blocking a bit too (a little bit). Even with Heyer, we have seen him take Jansen's job. Some of that is Jansen slowing down, some of that is Heyer improving his physique and some of that is his improvement as a football player helped by both his hard work, help from his teammates and Buges's help as well. Buges is still our guy
   

[KCJDLJ]

I honestly think this team under Buges would win more games than under Zorn. He has head coaching experience and the players would play for him IMO. He did a decent job for a horrible Arizona team.

If the season gets out of hand, which I am hoping it doesn't, I can see Zorn quitting under the pressure without much resistance from Dan.

I don't think you have been following Zorn very long if you think he'd quit under any pressure. I watched this guy give everything he had on the field in impossible situations w/ the Seahawks for years and nothing in his demeanor suggests that he's any less competitive as a coach than he was as a player. This guy has a fire in his belly and wants to win at everything that he does. I think Zorn would have to be dragged out of this job kicking and screaming. If you can give me any evidence that the pressure of losing one game is getting to him then tell me what it is. I don't see it. He has to learn to manage the game situations a little better but I think he's an outstanding coach that the players will play hard for.:fingersx:

[LoveDaSkins172645]

In reading these posts to this thread, I also seem to think this point hasn't been brought into this. According to the media, this WCO has the QB direct protection on blitzes among other things. My point is this, if JC isn't comfortable with knowing this system and he is so focused on reads, check downs and looking off recievers how can he possibly expected to tell the OL how and where to block? Now I know running plays are different however we don't have spring chickens on the line with the exception of Heyer, I think we mainly run up the middle because the line is getting old and why have them pull or exert more energy for rushing to the outside. I mean come on 3.5 out of the 5 lineman need Geritol as it is. Add in the fact that Cooley strong point is not blocking and the defenses know this. If you place a rookie in there (Davis) will that help or hurt and our blocking TE Yoder is pretty much just that, a blocking TE. So again Buges will take SOME of the heat and personally speaking I just don't think he wants to modify to fit today's schemes. I think this is one of the main problems with the Redskins today, they are trying to do old school things with new age pieces. It simply doesn't fit well. If you want a smash mouth team, get BIG BACKS, BIG BLOCKING TE'S and BIG WR'S. If you want to run a WCO offense USE spread formations and zone blocking and fast recievers.

[paloosa]

I think that Bugel is doing a really good job with the o-line because the guys he had at backup came in and performed rather well when they replaced a starter due to injury. Name another team that has had that type of success? Do you think that Jacksonville will have that type of success? I don't think so. Plus we have some good young O-Line players backing up the starters. Geisinger and Reinhart. Jansen is backing up Heyer because he has lost his starting job to him. So has he done a good job of addressing the needs or coaching up players above their talent level? I say yes. Look at Todd Wade he wasn't in the prime of his career no was he?

[Blondie]

Did he stand up during the draft this season....and say "Hey, you aren't drafting 3 receivers in the second round......we need some line help?"

Is he giving our qbs enough time to throw the ball?

While we love him as a man, and respect him for being a primary part of our Superbowl successes......if his name was John Smith, as opposed to Joe Bugel......how would you rate the job he has done over the last few seasons....and the job he is doing now?

The way you write those sentences, you can go either way if questioned.

So, I am going to question you.

Standing up for O line help? Best on the board. Every player evaluated. Strikes and strikes again. So. Are you saying he did NOT fight for O line help?

I think your second question is very loaded. We KNOW JC stands....stares....and often has caused his own demise. All the time? No. We know this.........however, although I concur our O line needs support, I think JC causes his own destiny many times. The O line gave up one sack......first play of the game against the Giants. Period.

How would YOU rate it? Give details McD.

Again, I think Jon J saved himself last year with the injury. I believe it was coming.....and the job of benching him would have been met with OUTRAGE from so many.

O line needs help.

But.

I think they can do it this season.