JGordon_3 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 In any event, Springs has played at a higher level for the Skins than Champ did. Whoa, whoa whoa there Sparky, let's not get crazy now. I'm as much a homer as the next guy, but Springs better than Champ? That would be a no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Whoa, whoa whoa there Sparky, let's not get crazy now. I'm as much a homer as the next guy, but Springs better than Champ? That would be a no. I don't think he said Springs is a better player than Bailey, but that Springs has played at a higher level during his time here than Baiely did during his time here. That's definitely debatable. By the way, the Skins' passing defense has surpassed the Bronco's passing defense since Bailey went to Denver and Springs came to the Skins, except for the 2006 season. So maybe that's what he's basing his viewpoint on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinpigskin Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 What's being overlooked here is that not only did we get Clinton Portis, but we also got SouthEast Jerome, Kid Bro Sweets, Dr. Do Itch Big, Sheriff Gonna Getcha, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Things Greater Then JLC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I don't see Portis slowing down anytime soon, especially now with Gibbs gone and him going back to a system he thrived in with Denver with the zone blocking and whatnot. Champ on the other hand is now entering his 10th season I believe. He's still a great corner, but I think Portis may edge him out in years left. Plus, the attitude, both are talkers, but Portis is a team first guy and is committed to making this team go. Champ wanted money, and does not seem to have the best attitude. He's someone to "build a defense around", sure, but he's not the face of that franchise while Portis is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md20j Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Not for nuthin', but consider this: who has been the face of the 'Skins since Portis came here? Who was the face of the 'Skins while Bailey was here? Who's been the face of the Broncos while Champ's been over there? I'm sorry... there are just too many non-measurables that Portis has brought to the 'Skins to say this team got the better or that team got the better. Portis has been incredible here. He gives everything he has, even more. And he's gonna blow up the NFC East this year when they put put their 5 DB's out there to stop all of our receivers. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 JLC didn't pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSkinzFan Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 at worst it's an even trade, champ didn't wanna be in washington anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderMustGo Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Portis and a 2nd for Hall of Fame Corner? Good trade for us. Portis for Bailey straight up? A wash under the assumption he was gone; a bad trade for us if Bailey wasn't gone. Portis for Bailey and a 2nd? Rape by the Broncos. People forget the 2nd round pick. The 2nd round pick was enough for Portis straight up. Thus, Bailey--the top cornerback in the league and a Hall of Famer--was a THROW-IN for a trade for a RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 The 2nd round pick was enough for Portis straight up. You're insane if you really think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 We got raped on that trade. Bailey was franchised. If we couldn't deal him, he'd play for us or no one. The Jets franchised Abraham two years in a row and still got a #1 in trade. A shutdown corner is worth two #1s. Bailey has nine pro bowl selections. He's first ballot HOF. Most teams get their RBs in the draft. Steven Jackson went at #22 that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I hated having to throw in the 2nd round pick, which turned out to be Tatum Bell, be he's not even with Denver anymore. To be fair, you have to look at any second rounder available at that pick. We likely would not have taken Bell. But then again, our track record wasn't so hot in the drafts then either. I didn't like the way we rolled off the pick so easily, but CP's blocking skills weren't evident to me at the time either. I'm not defending JLC, I'm just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGordon_3 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I don't think he said Springs is a better player than Bailey, but that Springs has played at a higher level during his time here than Baiely did during his time here. That's definitely debatable.By the way, the Skins' passing defense has surpassed the Bronco's passing defense since Bailey went to Denver and Springs came to the Skins, except for the 2006 season. So maybe that's what he's basing his viewpoint on. I'm sorry, but that is taking the easy way out. There was a reason that some experts were against the trade in the first place. Champ was already an established shutdown corner, 4-time pro-bowler BEFORE he left. And he's gotten better. He's been a 4-time all-pro since he's been in Denver. Those prime years that he's had would have been with us. He hadn't even gotten to his prime yet. In regards to the defense overall getting better, Springs gets credit for that? Why? I think more credit should go to Gregg Williams if anyone. We've had better safeties, linebackers, and down linemen, a better scheme overall. Springs has been good for us, even very good at times. But I think Champ would have been great for us IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderMustGo Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 You're insane if you really think that. Am I? The next season Edgerrin James and Shaun Alexander both were on the market for 2nd round picks--and no one took the offer. Other than LT, no running back commands more than a 2nd round pick. Feel free to find an example if you think otherwise. Or you just could say it is crazy with absolutely nothing to stand on when doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Those prime years that he's had would have been with us. He hadn't even gotten to his prime yet. I still think we gave a little much, but Bailey wanted out. Even if we franchised him, he didn't like JG or GW and would most likely have been gone the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Portis for Bailey straight up? A wash under the assumption he was gone; a bad trade for us if Bailey wasn't gone. Stop. There is NO assumption. You have been told here for years by people with actual knowledge of what the situation was. That you allow yourself the inability to understand that & you continue to not process that information is on you. And until you can do that, you'll continue to be laughed here for looking like a doofus. So, either you can put your agenda aside & join the rest of here in reality, or know that every time you hear a faint sound of laughter, that no one is laughing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I still think we gave a little much, but Bailey wanted out. Even if we franchised him, he didn't like JG or GW and would most likely have been gone the following year. Abraham wanted out of New York, he was often injured, a clubhouse problem, he was franchised two years in a row, and the Jets still got a #1 from Atlanta. I don't know why he would have had objections to playing for Gibbs and Williams, but who cares if he did? He still has to go out there on Sunday and prove his value. This trade was just too one-sided, Denver abused us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGordon_3 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I still think we gave a little much, but Bailey wanted out. Even if we franchised him, he didn't like JG or GW and would most likely have been gone the following year. That's cool and all, point is we gave up a little bit much, just like you and others have said. Portis has been the man when healthy, but the recent history of the league has shown that for the most part, running backs are a dime a dozen. I think Ladell could have had great success with us if given the full-time opportunity. No, he's not better than Portis, but it's not every day you have a shutdown corner in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderMustGo Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 There is NO assumption. You have been told here for years by people with actual knowledge of what the situation was. All I know is that some people said he had an affair and was having problems. All I know is that some people said he would never play for the Redskins again. All I know is that in the paper, his comments were that he just wanted to get paid. It is certainly not a fact that he was gone no matter what. As it is not a fact, it can only be an assumption. And if you assume that, then I would say straight up trade would have been a wash. Either way, throwing in the 2nd was an absolutely RAPING. It's odd that if you search for references that Portis was definitely gone, all you turn up is ES posts. As it was such an apparently open knowledge, one would think it would have been in more places. I personally think that Bailey could have been paid enough money to stay, and he was just whining for more money like all the big stars do (Chad Johnson, TO, Sheppard, Samuel, etc.). Until you can provide me a source--other than someone who claims to have inside sources here on the Redskins--with a comment from Bailey early in the negoitation that he would under no condition play for the Redskins, I'm sorry that I do not see that as anything beyond an assumption and negotiating tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Am I? The next season Edgerrin James and Shaun Alexander both were on the market for 2nd round picks--and no one took the offer. Other than LT, no running back commands more than a 2nd round pick. Feel free to find an example if you think otherwise. Or you just could say it is crazy with absolutely nothing to stand on when doing so. At the time of the trade, Portis was only 22 years old and already had 3,100 yards and 29 TDs in only two years. Teams would have had every right to believe he could get even better, and would have been getting Portis just as he's entering his prime. When Alexander was on the market he was 27 and had a lot of mileage on him. He wasn't going to get better. When James was on the market he was 26 and had a lot of mileage on him as well...not to mention injury issues. He wasn't going to get better, either. Believe it or not, a 22 year old runningback who has put up over 3,000 yards and nearly 30 TDs in his first two seasons is going to be worth more than a 27 year old running back who is just now starting to leave his prime playing years. And as for your "no running back commands more than a 2nd round pick" comment, why are so many picked in the top 10 picks of the first round? Put another way, do you really think that if Andrian Peterson were put on the market right now, the MOST anyone would offer would be a 2nd round pick? If so, I stand by my original comment: you're insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I don't know why he would have had objections to playing for Gibbs and Williams, but who cares if he did? He still has to go out there on Sunday and prove his value. I don't really know why he would either, but he clearly did. Bailey publicly said he wanted out of town. IDK why. Unhappy team mates work against team unity. JG knew that, and it may have over-influenced his valuation of Bailey. I think we should have held out and kept our pick for at least a while. Shopped around, offered a 4th or whatever. Denver demanded we throw in a 2nd, and we tripped over ourselves delivering it. Joe didn't put much value on picks anyway, they didn't fit his 5 year plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 SMG You might want to go research who the first people on here were that informed the board of said matters. And then ask yourself why you're even here if you can't believe those people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 If so, I stand by my original comment: you're insane. Something tells me there's a good chance that you won't be standing by this alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 At the time of the trade, Portis was only 22 years old and already had 3,100 yards and 29 TDs in only two years. Teams would have had every right to believe he could get even better, and would have been getting Portis just as he's entering his prime. I don't think there was an NFL fan alive who didn't know that those Denver numbers were inflated. Clinton was worth a #1. Bailey was worth two #1s. We traded a much more valuable player and threw in a #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofizz Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Portis = Redskins all-time leading rusher when it's all said and done. JLC = Monumental tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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