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Ron Paul followers pose danger for McCain in West


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http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iybyrJpNITSn-U8QIWUzrfBXiZUQD928MAI00

Ron Paul followers pose danger for McCain in West

By KATHLEEN HENNESSEY – 13 hours ago

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Dueling delegations pitting Ron Paul's Nevada supporters against those of John McCain vow to take their fight to the Republican National Convention.

That's just one sign that the outsider, Internet-fueled movement led by the feisty Republican congressman from Texas remains afloat in the wake of McCain's victory in the GOP primaries.

In the libertarian-leaning West, where Paul's message of distrust of the federal government and ardent individualism played particularly well, there is talk of Republicans straying from McCain. Libertarian candidate Bob Barr has emerged as a favorite alternative for Paul activists, followed by Constitutional Party candidate Chuck Baldwin.

Even if the numbers of such dissenters are small, in tight contests in key Western states they could spoil McCain's chances, experts say.

"In Nevada, there's absolutely enough to have an effect on the election," said Chuck Muth, a leading conservative activist in a state in which early polls show McCain and Democratic candidate Barack Obama in a statistical tie.

"I think that you will see not just Libertarians who always vote for the Libertarian candidate but conservative Republicans saying we've had it, we've had enough and they're going to go ahead and vote Libertarian," Muth said.

Paul — or "Dr. Paul," as his followers reverently refer to the obstetrician-turned-politician — ran as the Libertarian Party nominee for president in 1988. But this year he carved out a following as an antiestablishment Republican. His campaign won more than 1 million votes and became a catchall for anti-war, anti-government voters and disaffected Republicans.

The eclectic coalition racked up significant numbers. Paul placed second — ahead of McCain — in Republican caucuses in Nevada and Montana. He posted strong showings in nominating contests in Colorado, Washington and Oregon. In early June, he pulled away 14 percent of the vote from the already certain nominee in the New Mexico primary.

This is the West that McCain must win.

The interior West generally has been friendly territory for Republicans seeking the White House. Nevada, Montana and Colorado voted for George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004.

But history also warns of the impact of feisty Texans who preach small government.

"There's little doubt Bill Clinton would not have won Montana if it weren't for Ross Perot," said Bob Brown, a senior fellow at the Center for the Rocky Mountain West at the University of Montana. "And I think it's clear those votes were Republican."

The same could be said of Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado, states where the two-time independent candidate for president is often given credit for Clinton's breaking a two-decade-long Republican presidential winning streak in 1992.

The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4.

"At the end of the day, Republicans are going to vote for John McCain. He's a Western candidate who understands water issues, land issues. He's a fiscal conservative," said Rick Gorka, a campaign spokesman. "His message is appealing to a broad spectrum of voters."

There's little sign of that unification yet. In Nevada, state GOP officials abruptly shut down the state convention as a group of well-organized newcomers were poised to win delegates for Paul.

The group led by Paul supporters then held its own rogue convention and elected its own delegates. For its part, the state party couldn't get enough delegates to attend a second convention and appointed delegates by committee. A judge ruled against the Paul supporters when they filed suit. They now plan to file a challenge with the Republican National Committee.

Both groups are heading to the national convention in St. Paul, Minn.

"We're trying to say, 'Hey, you guys got to play by the rules, and if you don't, you'll face the consequences,'" said Wayne Terhune, a 57-year-old dentist in Sparks, Nev., and a leading Paul activist in the state. "They just took the football and went home."

Even without Nevada, Paul will send at least a handful of delegates to the national convention. Outside the convention hall, his supporters have reserved a 15,000-seat basketball arena for a "mini-convention."

Paul hasn't endorsed, but it is clear whom he is not supporting.

"I do encourage all the alternatives, obviously, because I can't support either of the two candidates from the Republican or Democratic parties," Paul said this month in an interview on Revolution Radio, an Internet-based station run by his supporters. "I think that might send a message."

In interviews with a dozen Paul voters from around the West, anti-administration sentiment rang loudest. Most were newly active in politics but had been regular Republican voters. They said their activism began with opposition to the Bush administration's foreign policy.

As newcomers, they expressed little party allegiance and little concern that their third-party votes could benefit Obama, a candidate even further from their views than McCain.

"The notion is, let's just break the GOP because the people who are running and holding office in it aren't respecting what the constituents want," said Jay Weeldreyer, a Paul field director in Renton, Wash. "So, if we can just let them suffer a massive loss, then maybe that will get through to them."

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The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4.

"At the end of the day, Republicans are going to vote for John McCain. He's a Western candidate who understands water issues, land issues. He's a fiscal conservative," said Rick Gorka, a campaign spokesman. "His message is appealing to a broad spectrum of voters."

LMAO, If they really think this then they are way out of touch with reality.

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I'm so pissed that Paul isn't still running. He sort of is, but it's not the same. I really hope he ends up on the ticket with Barr, it would be a mistake for him not to.

I wish he hadnt suspended his campaign too, but he simply wasnt going to have enough delegates. While I'd definitely vote for a Barr/Paul ticket, I think that Barr is saddled with wayne allen root due to Libertarian Party rules.

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When it comes down to it, Ron Paul supporters can piss and moan all they want. But in the booth, common sense is going to tell you that the alternative to voting against McCain is President Obama. And as much as they don't like neo-cons or even a moderate Republican, the thought of having Obama lead the country should be enough to decide who to vote for.

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When it comes down to it, Ron Paul supporters can piss and moan all they want. But in the booth, common sense is going to tell you that the alternative to voting against McCain is President Obama. And as much as they don't like neo-cons or even a moderate Republican, the thought of having Obama lead the country should be enough to decide who to vote for.

When do you think we will be able to vote "For" somebody again.

This voting against people is getting us nowhere.

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Good. If these people pull votes away from McCain that improves the chances that Obama wins which improves the chances that either the American people get their collective heads out of their asses and revolt (civilly or violently) against this government or I end up eating a bullet. Either of which probably improves my life.

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Good. If these people pull votes away from McCain that improves the chances that Obama wins which improves the chances that either the American people get their collective heads out of their asses and revolt (civilly or violently) against this government or I end up eating a bullet. Either of which probably improves my life.

And ours.:D

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When do you think we will be able to vote "For" somebody again.

This voting against people is getting us nowhere.

The options of what to do are always there. 3rd parties and grass root movements are things that you do in the 4 years between elections. When voting, pissing your vote away when you are the minority just because you didn't get your way in deciding the direction of your party is counter productive to say the least.

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Hey, you can always live in hope, Koolblue. Then again it might not even take that long. WHEN Obama issues the Presidential Order outlawing the private ownership of firearms I'll end up dead anyway.
Just messing with you, when it comes, we'll need you alive and on our side.:cheers:
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The options of what to do are always there. 3rd parties and grass root movements are things that you do in the 4 years between elections. When voting, pissing your vote away when you are the minority just because you didn't get your way in deciding the direction of your party is counter productive to say the least.

Right, so for the next 4 years, when I say to somebody "hey what about a third party?" and they reply "why, they got no votes the last election"?

I can't bring myself to vote McCain or Obama and I will vote.

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Right, so for the next 4 years, when I say to somebody "hey what about a third party?" and they reply "why, they got no votes the last election"?

I can't bring myself to vote McCain or Obama and I will vote.

It's your right to do so but I don't respect it at all. Just my :2cents:

To me McCain really is the first GOP nominee I can get behind in a few elections. I definitely voted for GOP candidates who I truly couldn't stand some of their policies in order for the Dems to lose. Yeah lesser of two evils and it sucks but that's how the real world works sometimes.

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When it comes down to it, Ron Paul supporters can piss and moan all they want. But in the booth, common sense is going to tell you that the alternative to voting against McCain is President Obama. And as much as they don't like neo-cons or even a moderate Republican, the thought of having Obama lead the country should be enough to decide who to vote for.

I promise you, the tired old and really pretty silly logic that we must vote for another lesser of evils candidate, is long gone from the views of most traditional paleo-conservatives and libertarian leaning republicans (like myself)

McCain and Obama will not get the votes of those who hold conservative principles dear

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It's your right to do so but I don't respect it at all. Just my :2cents:

To me McCain really is the first GOP nominee I can get behind in a few elections. I definitely voted for GOP candidates who I truly couldn't stand some of their policies in order for the Dems to lose. Yeah lesser of two evils and it sucks but that's how the real world works sometimes.

That's fine, we all have our :2cents:

I don't respect ours either on this.:)

My concern is that the American sheeple have gone so far down mentally that they will never see the need to rise against this government; even after it's too late.

I think most of the people who would, are already there.

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I think most of the people who would, are already there.

Which is the exact problem. There are nowhere near enough Right-thinking people to create a serious revolution.... societally or violently. The American people have succumbed to the stupor that our Founding Fathers warned us about and basically destroyed this country from within.

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I promise you, the tired old and really pretty silly logic that we must vote for another lesser of evils candidate, is long gone from the views of most traditional paleo-conservatives and libertarian leaning republicans (like myself)

McCain and Obama will not get the votes of those who hold conservative principles dear

I am probably more of a centrist than you are :laugh: And most people do realize that there is no "perfect candidate" and that rough decisions need to be made.

I have no problem with the real McCain versus the one that is trying to get elected.

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Which is the exact problem. There are nowhere near enough Right-thinking people to create a serious revolution.... societally or violently. The American people have succumbed to the stupor that our Founding Fathers warned us about and basically destroyed this country from within.

And yet when we have a candidate who is willing to say the unpopular things and do what is right, folks like yourself don't get on board.

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i dun know why mccain would think ron paul supporters are going to come crawling back to the republicans. if i was a libertarian leaning republican i'd be so angry at the party right now i'd want them to implode as they are and get back to their ideals.

Thats exactly what most of us are doing, McCain is banking on the fact that those libertarian leaning republicans will only come crawling back to stop the lesser of two evils. I think that would be a bit of an underestimate of Ron Paul supporters however...most of us would rather vote for something we think is right than vote for somebody who we don't agree with just because he agrees with us on a few more things than the other choice.

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And yet when we have a candidate who is willing to say the unpopular things and do what is right, folks like yourself don't get on board.

He's NOT saying the right things so far as I'm concerned. He's saying less of the wrong things, but I still don't believe he's far enough to the Right for my tastes.

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He's NOT saying the right things so far as I'm concerned. He's saying less of the wrong things, but I still don't believe he's far enough to the Right for my tastes.

Hitler wasn't far enough Right for your tastes.

Although Khomeini is probably a pretty close fit.

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