2006Skins Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I wanted to get the ES view on this. The drilling has turned into a large left-right issue (again). Here are each of opinions. Drill Now Opinion: With oil at record prices, drilling for oil will provide more of a supply in the future lowering prices, as well as lowering the price of oil today by having the speculators lower the prices now with the supply coming on the horizon. If the US drills on all fronts, than reports are we can cut off Saudia supply and produce our own oil for the next 60-75 years. Don't Drill Opinion: The increase in supply will not lower prices because there is such a monopoly, plus the speculators will not allow the prices to drop since most are vested. Additionally, the amount of oil the US will produce will be so little, it will not affect prices at the pump. Many democrats and environmentalists will add that this is the time to take advantage of alternative energy while this has many Americans' attention. Now you've heard both sides. There are several places in play: ANWR (Arctic National Wildlife Refugee) in the Alaskan desert, 50-60 miles off the coast of Florida in the Atlantic, the plains in the Dakota region, and the Rockies. Many environmentalists are huge on ANWR and the Rockies saying that it will kill what little humanity has not touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Jam Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Drill in some places but definitely not offshore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titaw Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I say offshore drill in the gulf because China is already sucking it dry. Meanwhile, put big $$$ into R&D for an alternative fuel that is cost effective for the American public. This should appease both sides and ween the US off of it's oil addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2006Skins Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 Drill in some places but definitely not offshore. Also keep in mind that Cuba is already leasing out space to drill off the coast. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366249,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Drill in some places but definitely not offshore. Same here. One oil spill would be a disaster for Florida's economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-O-G Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Drill, Drill, Drill and then drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Did someone shut down Texas when I wasn't paying attention. Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFromYellowstone Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 You don't drill. We won't see a drop of the oil for ten years at least, and by the time the refineries are at full capacity in twenty years, the oil will go to the world market and have a minute, miniscule, near non-existent effect. You have to look to the future. If America really wants to become energy independent, we have to look for other ways to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I say offshore drill in the gulf because China is already sucking it dry. Meanwhile, put big $$$ into R&D for an alternative fuel that is cost effective for the American public.This should appease both sides and ween the US off of it's oil addiction. No China isn't. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366249,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 No China isn't.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366249,00.html Does it really matter if it is the Cubans, China,Canada,or Brazil ,Mexico or even Sheik Igottawadofyourcash???? :laugh: There will be drilling right off Florida and there ain't nothing gonna stop it. Quote SteveFromYellowstone You don't drill. We won't see a drop of the oil for ten years at least, and by the time the refineries are at full capacity in twenty years, the oil will go to the world market and have a minute, miniscule, near non-existent effect. You have to look to the future. If America really wants to become energy independent, we have to look for other ways to do it. Ten -twenty yrs and no effect? Someones been hitting the Kool-Aid or simply has no clue. I do agree we need to look for other ways AS WELL as drilling. It's not a big deal,the market and our economy will adjust if oil stays high or continues to climb....you might not like the adjustment it makes though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Does it really matter if it is the Cubans, China,Canada,or Brazil ,Mexico or even Sheik Igottawadofyourcash???? :laugh: There will be drilling right off Florida and there ain't nothing gonna stop it. Huh? He said China was drilling off the coast of Florida. China isn't. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Did someone shut down Texas when I wasn't paying attention. Man. Texas' date='Louisiana and Alaska have done their part for decades all them dots are wells,kinda amazing it is also a major area for commercial fishing as well. [url']http://www.anewgreenitude.info/oil%20rigs.jpg[/url] You slackers need to catch up or pay the price. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titaw Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 No China isn't.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366249,00.html I guess I was misinformed. We still need to drill. If we don't others will. How about we build another refinery. That way, the oil that we bril in from the offshore drilling can be sent directly to the refinery. That would make too much sense though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Huh? He said China was drilling off the coast of Florida. China isn't. :laugh: Does it really matter WHO is going to be doing the drilling off Cuba? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 You don't drill. We won't see a drop of the oil for ten years at least, and by the time the refineries are at full capacity in twenty years, the oil will go to the world market and have a minute, miniscule, near non-existent effect.You have to look to the future. If America really wants to become energy independent, we have to look for other ways to do it. Funny, Bush merely lifts the Executive order banning offshore drilling and oil drops $6 a barrel. Wonder how much it would drop if we actually stated drilling again? Same here. One oil spill would be a disaster for Florida's economy. When is the last time we had an offshore oil refinery spill in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frommd Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Yes, drill. Also, explore nuclear, wind, solar, hydro and anything else out there. In 10 years, or whatever it takes, let's not have an energy monopoly like we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Personally, I'd rather attack the gas problem by looking at where the shortage is in our supply chain. I'm assuming the underlying problem for us is gas prices not oil prices as most of us don't own oil stocks. Is speculation running prices up? Yep, that's part of the problem, but in a global economy any effort to push down prices seems like folly. Is their a lack of oil pushing prices up? Not that I know of. There is a lot of talk about it at some future date that nobody seems to be able to predict...kind of like Malthus and food running out. OK, so that leaves refineries. Are the ones we have running at peek capacity? Absolutely. Have they been running that way for years? Yep. Ummmm shouldn't we be building more? We run the risk every year of a huricane taking one or more off line, and every time that happens fuel prices rise. Do the fuel prices ever come back down when we get one back up and running (a question I honestly don't know the answer to)? It's not that I'm necessarily against drilling. Have we not leased thousands of acres to be drilled in Fl and it's waters that is not yet being drilled. What makes people think opening up more land for "potential drilling" will increase the supply of oil and thus drive down prices? Personally, if we do open up more land, I want assurances from whomever we leave the land to that that they will in fact drill and not let it sit on their ledgers as "we have this land and this land and this land all of which might have oil so our stock is valuable." So using the model we have been using for the past few decades, I can't say I'm in favor of drilling because I'm not sure how it will help us. That said, I'm not against drilling with a different approach to how we go about using it. Their is enviromental impact anywhere you drill...or build houses, or just about anything. I'm just not keen on absorbing the enviromental impact under our current models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Drill in the outtershelf: 10+ miles. Steam that shale and sideways drill the bakken. Drill in places that were more expensive before. Build the refinaries. 1. Drill enough to erase the 700 billion deficit each year. keeping us beholden to(Saudi Arabia). 2. Then pull more out over the next 2 years and ONLY send it to China to wipe the trillion dollar debt.. rinse/repeat for all other IOU holders. 3. Wind stations all over, solar stations all over, refinaries on abandoned military posts. 4. Ford/Gm get a billion dollars to mass produce the winner of the 100mpg car competition going on, be it hybrid or electric or hydrogen for it to be under 25k and affordable to all. they can share it if the collaborate. 5. Larry's solar space beam of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Drill. Drill. Help put OPEC out of business. We are always going to need oil, no matter what new alternative technology emerges and being energy independent will help put OPEC out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 The Hybrids we'll have by 2017 (The best est when we'd get anything from new drilling) will make it not worth wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Personally, I'd rather attack the gas problem by looking at where the shortage is in our supply chain. I'm assuming the underlying problem for us is gas prices not oil prices as most of us don't own oil stocks.The gas price problem is a oil price problem,though we could reduce some area shortages by eliminating the different formulations for different areas. Is speculation running prices up? Yep, that's part of the problem, but in a global economy any effort to push down prices seems like folly. Most economists and oil experts agree increasing supply lowers price,but I will leave that to the experts Is their a lack of oil pushing prices up? Not that I know of. There is a lot of talk about it at some future date that nobody seems to be able to predict...kind of like Malthus and food running out. I believe it is the tight margins on excess production capabilities along with the NOC's controlling the vast majority of available reserves(which equals supply capability) We are the major customer for a product we insist on purchasing from others,and it is hardly surprising when we get squeezed on price. OK, so that leaves refineries. Are the ones we have running at peek capacity? Absolutely. Have they been running that way for years? Yep. Ummmm shouldn't we be building more? We run the risk every year of a huricane taking one or more off line, and every time that happens fuel prices rise. Do the fuel prices ever come back down when we get one back up and running (a question I honestly don't know the answer to)? Yes we need more refining capability. Do you wish to spend the billions for it?...Where would you like it located? Profit margins on refining are not that good,and the expense and liability issues(combined with the regulatory hoops) make it cheaper to expand overseas....now where have I heard that before? Here on refinery row is a constant battle they fight to simply exist with the environmentalists dogging them,combine that climate with the NIMBY's and we are where we're at....short on capacity and hesitant to build more. It's not that I'm necessarily against drilling. Have we not leased thousands of acres to be drilled in Fl and it's waters that is not yet being drilled. What makes people think opening up more land for "potential drilling" will increase the supply of oil and thus drive down prices? Personally, if we do open up more land, I want assurances from whomever we leave the land to that that they will in fact drill and not let it sit on their ledgers as "we have this land and this land and this land all of which might have oil so our stock is valuable." Oil lease rights are bought at very high prices(not given) and revert back to the Feds after ten yrs if not developed. A company does not pay out millions with no intention of finding and developing oil,however the unfortunate fact is oil is not always found that can be recovered at a feasible price. The feds do however collect the lease payments no matter what,with the added bonus of 25% (or higher) of any oil produced So using the model we have been using for the past few decades, I can't say I'm in favor of drilling because I'm not sure how it will help us. That said, I'm not against drilling with a different approach to how we go about using it. Their is enviromental impact anywhere you drill...or build houses, or just about anything. I'm just not keen on absorbing the enviromental impact under our current models. Opening up new areas automatically increases income for the feds,with no money outlay....if developed the feds get a percentage of any oil/gas produced,along with employment,infrastructure and manufacturing gains. You also cut the trade deficit and even reduce the need for the Strategic Oil Reserve(freeing millions of barrels of oil for sale ) As far as environmental? We have the best technology and the strictest rules...No one is going to produce oil at less cost to the planet. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 The Hybrids we'll have by 2017 (The best est when we'd get anything from new drilling) will make it not worth wild. Hope you enjoy riding your bike till then. You can get production within a yr from capped wells off Cali and on land sites can produce inside a yr. Two to three yrs for shallow water drilling Five to ten for deepwater rigs. The need for oil/gas is not going away for a long time ,if ever,even with hybrids. Why not use our own and quit funding Saudi and co. while actually getting alt energy paid for?....nah, too simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 TWA, thanks for the response. My concern is that I haven't seen the price at the pump drop much with new oil coming to the market. Isn't Iraq starting to produce closer and closer to pre-war levels of oil? I thought most of the concern was about the possibility of future problems in the region putting a risk premium on the oil. I didn't think there was an actual shortage now. I think I remember one of the oil experts on meet the press a few weeks ago breaking down the price increase of gas in the U.S. and only like 30 to 45 cents was the increase in oil price. I note that while some may say the price of oil dropped because Bush did away with some restrictions, I find it at least aas plausible that the risk premium dropped some with the opening of talks with Iran. That's whay I cringe at thinking drilling, which may or may not drive down the price of oil, will have a huge roll. Note, I'm not against drilling as I will take my 30 to 45 cents off a gallon. Heck, I got a 3% back credit card on gas and bought a car which gets 40 mpg. I'm cheap on this stuff. As for refineries, I still think we need them despite enviromentalists. They'll fight building more, but they are fighting drilling too. I just think when it comes to which area to fight them on, we're picking the wrong one in battling over drilling. Build me some darn refineries. When it comes to energy independence, outsourcing the refineries puts us right back in the same leaky ship of depending on somebody else to keep our economy afloat. As for the leases, I'm glad to hear I was wrong on that one. I thought there would be another side to the story. I'd only heard the senator from FL talking about why he didn't want to lease the more land in FL. I agree completely that there is no where else from a global envirmoent standard I would rather drill then here in the U.S. under our regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Drill. Drill. Help put OPEC out of business. We are always going to need oil, no matter what new alternative technology emerges and being energy independent will help put OPEC out of business.I don't think any amount of drilling can put OPEC out of business. No matter how much we drill, the OPEC companies will have more easily accessible oil, and cheaper labor, and they will be able to produce oil at a price competitive with ours. Maybe we won't have to buy much OPEC oil, but they will still be selling to China and India and Europe, and their business will be fine.For example, we mine more coal than we use, and we export it to other countries, but that hasn't put coal mines out of business in South America or China. Being "independent" doesn't mean that the rest of the world goes bankrupt. The only way we can really put OPEC out of business is to develop technologies that don't use oil at all, and sell those to other countries, so that nobody will need a lot of oil anymore. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Gut Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Drill now, transfer all carbon subsidies to alternative/green energy subsidies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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