Obama supporters are brainwashed? History proves otherwise

[PeterMP]

My point is that to many in 2000 George Bush was NOT the lesser of two evils as you claim (maybe 2004 to some). In 2000, he was seen by many Republicans as a true conservative and the voice of the party. That is clearly not the case. So why should those people be lecturing Obama supporters on how to see through the BS?

Because experience is the best teacher.

I didn't vote for Bush in 2004, but I'll admit, I was excited by Bush in 2000 (though I did actually support McCain in the primary). I remember his convention speech well. My then not wife, but now is, and I were taking a 3 day weekend to Montreal. We were going to take two days to get there anyway, but I made sure we stopped in time so that I could watch his speech. I remember sitting on the bed in the hotel and telling my wife, this guy gets it (she tends to lean left so she didn't agree).

He certainly doesn't get it now and by 2004 that was clear to me. The thing I'm sad about because I really never now is did he get it and 9-11 chaged everything for him or was I duped and wrong. Anyway, the lesson is when voting for President make sure you have a clear and established track record so that you really know what the person is about and have some idea of how significant changes and actions are going to affect them.

The fact of the matter is I actually don't dislike Obama on many issues (at least not more than McCain). On some issues, they are the same. On some issues (e.g. health care), I don't like where either is. On things like reform, I'm pretty happy with both. On some issues, I'm closer to McCain (e.g. taxes). On some issues, I'm closer to Obama (e.g. I think I am closer to where Obama actually is on Iraq than McCain). But Obama doesn't have the history for me to look at. In 4 years, when there is more of a history, I could see voting for him (In all honesty, I never haved voted Dem for President, but I voted for Biden fore Senate twice, and I would have considered voting for him for President). I was also a big fan of Tsongas (not sure I was old enough to vote in that election though; what year was that), but he lost the primary to whoever.

This year though, I can't bring myself to potentially make the same mistake I made in 2000. Obama might be good (e.g. Clinton), but he might not. He might be Bush (or really more like Carter).

To me, McCain is most likely to be another Bush I President. I actually think he was under rated as a President so I'm probably happier than most with that, and I'll take it.

[Duckus]

But wait. These are the same people who in 2000 saw George Bush as best person to run our country. Four years later they decided he needed another 4 years to drag us even further down.

Went ahead and pulled this little quote from your first post. You said that we thought he was the best person to run this country, and that 4 years later we dragged you down further. Every repub that I know was not convinced he was the best candidate, but Al Gore and John Kerry were much worse. And lets be realistic, who actually believes that the Independant is going to win? If it were the case that the (I) had a chance to actually win, then your boy Bush might not have gotten in.

To your second paragraph, show me where I said Bush was a true conservative, and the voice of the party. I feel like I should lecture some Obama supporters, not all. Some of them actual like him for his policies, which I believe he needs to be more vocal about. That is something he is not strong with, he is a great public speaker, but ask him about his policies and he comes back with, 'we are gonna change'. Well what is he gonna change?

Other Obama supporters only support him because he is not a repub, or because of the color of his skin, etc.

I don't get the argument that he was just someone we had to vote for and no one actually like him. Are we all forgetting how the process works? The heads of the Republican party did not get drunk one night and choose Bush as their candidate during drinking games. Republicans from all over the country went out and voted him to be THEIR nominee – in overwhelming numbers - over OTHER Republicans that election cycle. Couldn’t the party, if it was so clear early on that Bush was NO conservative, have elected someone else as its leader in 2000?

Just as you know Obama supporters who are only voting for him based on skin color, not being a Republican, and broad ideas of “change.” I know Republicans who really thought Bush was a true conservative. One was a roommate for 3 years and one of my best friends who is an FBI agent, hardcore conservative, and loved him some George Bush until about 2 years ago.

[EersSkins05]

As for that last quoted sentence -- that's classic Bush. Trying to argue against reality? Asked a question you can't possibly answer? Try to reduce it to "just a difference of opinion." These days, Bush's vanishing cadre of admirers still try to pull that one out, as if it ever worked. :laugh:

Great post, but I would argue that the newly minted responses in an argument against reality are to

a) blast the source rather than the information (Example: Of COURSE CBS thinks that the people in New Orleans needed federal help quicker than 5 days.)

cook up your own numbers to rebut the reality-lacking argument. (Example: Violence in Iraq is down! I can demonstrate this through the use of statistics that have been devised specifically for me to be able to demonstrate this point.)

[Hubbs]

Unless you generally vote FOR the candidate, independent of party, then with all due respect, who cares? Satan could run for president for either party, and he'd still have his party's core defending his actions as though he were the greatest thing ever. I'd say you're brainwashed by the party, not by the candidate.

Ding-ding-****ing-ding.

:applause:

[Tweedr01]

I don't get the argument that he was just someone we had to vote for and no one actually like him. Are we all forgetting how the process works? The heads of the Republican party did not get drunk one night and choose Bush as their candidate during drinking games. Republicans from all over the country went out and voted him to be THEIR nominee – in overwhelming numbers - over OTHER Republicans that election cycle. Couldn’t the party, if it was so clear early on that Bush was NO conservative, have elected someone else as its leader in 2000?

Just as you know Obama supporters who are only voting for him based on skin color, not being a Republican, and broad ideas of “change.” I know Republicans who really thought Bush was a true conservative. One was a roommate for 3 years and one of my best friends who is an FBI agent, hardcore conservative, and loved him some George Bush until about 2 years ago.

Eh, not trying to sound like a jerk, which I most positively will sound like, but I'll wait for you to address the questions I have posed to you before I keep going with your posts. Go ahead and get those answers for me, and I'll get started on these.

[headexplode]

No one on the other side KNEW that Bush would be this horrible

They should have. I did. Why would you vote for someone who couldn't string together a complete sentence unless he has practiced it thousands of times beforehand (and then still gets it wrong most of the time)? He has mangled this country like he mangles the English language every day, and yet some still wonder where things went wrong (here's a clue: in his dad's testicles.)

[Tweedr01]

They should have. I did. Why would you vote for someone who couldn't string together a complete sentence unless he has practiced it thousands of times beforehand (and then still gets it wrong most of the time)? He has mangled this country like he mangles the English language every day, and yet some still wonder where things went wrong (here's a clue: in his dad's testicles.)

Well at least someone is contributing to this thread...

[headexplode]

Well at least someone is contributing to this thread...

Thanks a lot, man, I appre--hey! You're being sarcastic!

[michael_33]

I've had and still have a very bad vibe about Obama....(just my intuition maybe)

2 things are gonna happen I believe with Obama...

#1)He will win the election and we ALL will be in trouble!

or

#2)The other I cannot say on the internet without ramifications...and he won't be president.

[Tweedr01]

Thanks a lot, man, I appre--hey! You're being sarcastic!

HEY, don't make me laugh, I'll get in trouble at work...crap, too late! Dude I almost fell out of my chair

[DCMONEY]

A day does not pass when conservatives on this board attempt to slam Obama supporters as delusional, brainwashed, tricked, etc. Supposedly we are unable to see through the BS, and simply are falling into a giant cult of fluffy words of “hope” and “change.” Conservatives laugh at how silly it all is, and how stupid we must be for being tricked into believing all of this……

But wait. These are the same people who in 2000 saw George Bush as best person to run our country. Four years later they decided he needed another 4 years to drag us even further down. Today our economy is heading into a recession; our international foreign policy is a mess; our constitution is in shambles, and the man who you many of you believed in enough to elect TWICE as President, now has historically low approval ratings. NOW conservatives across the country have distanced themselves from him. They claim that he is not a Republican in any shape, way, or form. Conservatives openly call him embarrassing to the party, an idiot, and one of the worst Presidents in recent history.

So what happened? Were you not able to see this with the great foresight, which you clearly have NOW about Obama (and use to mock his supporters)? Supposedly you are able to see the truth more than us lowly brainwashed Obama supporters, but for some reason those abilities were broken during the 2000 and 2004 election. You all claimed 8 years ago Bush was a true conservative, someone who had conservative values and conservative policies. Now he is not even a Republican…..were you tricked? Brainwashed? Delusional?

Basically – it is comical to be lectured daily on how Obama has brainwashed his supporters by a group of people who once saw Bush as a leader of their party and a leader of the conservative voice and now claim he is not even a Republican…..

Man stop telling the truth! You might start something! :applause: :applause:

[Duckus]

Eh, not trying to sound like a jerk, which I most positively will sound like, but I'll wait for you to address the questions I have posed to you before I keep going with your posts. Go ahead and get those answers for me, and I'll get started on these.

You asked me if I was on drugs. I said no, but thought maybe you might have been.

You asked me about Al Gore and Kerry as Presidents. I explained why that did not have anything to do with my post and stated that I have no idea what type of Presidents they would be.

You asked me to find “the history where I said Obama supporters are brainwashed, and that Bush is king of all.” This again is not really relevant. I never accused you individually. I said that there are conservatives who do say these things about Obama supports – a lot on this board. You might not be one, but that does not prove that they do not exist.

You asked me to show you where I said Bush was a true conservative, and the voice of the party. Again, same answer above. You might not have said this does not mean that no conservatives did.

Lastly you asked me to show you a post where anyone claimed that Obama supports are brainwashed. Just open a thread. There are tons of posts saying how we can’t see through the BS, that we need to open our eyes, that we have been tricked by his cool words and speeches. That are literally everywhere on this board.

Sorry took me so long to get back to yea, working is picking up this afternoon.

[Tweedr01]

You asked me if I was on drugs. I said no, but thought maybe you might have been.

You asked me about Al Gore and Kerry as Presidents. I explained why that did not have anything to do with my post and stated that I have no idea what type of Presidents they would be.

You asked me to find “the history where I said Obama supporters are brainwashed, and that Bush is king of all.” This again is not really relevant. I never accused you individually. I said that there are conservatives who do say these things about Obama supports – a lot on this board. You might not be one, but that does not prove that they do not exist.

You asked me to show you where I said Bush was a true conservative, and the voice of the party. Again, same answer above. You might not have said this does not mean that no conservatives did.

Lastly you asked me to show you a post where anyone claimed that Obama supports are brainwashed. Just open a thread. There are tons of posts saying how we can’t see through the BS, that we need to open our eyes, that we have been tricked by his cool words and speeches. That are literally everywhere on this board.

Sorry took me so long to get back to yea, working is picking up this afternoon.

Trust me, today, I have no idea what you're talking about workwise. Its been dragging. Anyways, back to me being a jerk...you did lump all repubs together in saying that we were either brainwashed, or were brainwashing, at 3 in the afternoon though, I don't care anymore. I mean, I see it one way, you see it another, I'm probably not going to be bringing any supporters over from the dark side into the light side today am I? I really don't want to go looking through threads to find threads I have not seen, basically I wouldn't know where to look for em, and when you search 'brainwash', can you guess what thread pops up?

Yeah its this one:laugh: ...but anyways, last thing I'll say (i know thats a lie) when I first read this post I though you were a grade a jerk, but as the thread continues it just seems you were blowing off steam in the beginning and explained yourself much better as it went on.

[Baculus]

This is from a speech given in 1873 by Edward Ryan.

"There is looming up a dark new power. . . . The enterprises of the country are aggregating vast corporate combinations of unexampled capital, boldly marking, not for economic conquest only, but for political power. For the first time in our politics, money is taking the field of organized power. The question will arise, and arise in your day though perhaps not fully in mine: 'Which shall rule--wealth or man? Which shall lead--money or intellect? Who shall fill public stations--educated and patriotic free men, or the feudal serfs of corporate wealth?'"

That is the situation we face today.

IMO, President Bush has been a mediocre President. I will also add that some of the blame HAS to be also shouldered by members of his administration as well. They are supposed to help the President make good policy and decisions.

The problem is that folks who voted for the man will not take ownership of their vote. Either that, or they have been sleepwalking for the past eight years.

Part of the issue also has to do with the "politics over compentency" issue that appears to have plagued this administration. Look at the Iraq rebuilding initiative and the folks who were chosen not for their competency, but for their political connections. Examine the (former) head of FEMA and the resulting mess from Katrina. Look at the FCC, or, for that matter, almost every federal department that was filled with one political flunkee after another, often with poor results.

It's one big incompetent mess, and it's terribly disappointing, to say the least.

Now, politicism in the federal government isn't new, of course, but this century was a critical time for America, and the current administration dropped the bag, big time. Instead of choosing what's best for America, they choose what's best for their parties, loyalists, friends, or party donators.

They put their own self-interests ahead of this nation, and that is inexcusable. It's the sort of mess that will take us probably a couple of future Presidential administrations to fix.

Now, again, all the blame cannot be shouldered onto President Bush, because many of the issues we face have been taking place for over a hundred years, as exemplified by the previous Ryan speech.

In essence, the President, while certainly responsible for much of the current mess, he is also the figure-head for a broken system. A system that robs of us our wealth and our potential as a nation. And we need to do something about it, and fast.

[Peeping Wizard]

Funny how Obama supporters feel the need to constantly bring up the Bush presidency. No matter how you feel about Bush, his time is over and he is not running in this election. For a group of people who are supposedly focused on the future, you sure discuss the past an awful lot.

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

Who said they were brainwashed? They're just the representatives of a poorly informed public. I loved Bush from the start, and I still do. Sure, he should be tougher on immigration. But he sticks with his guns, especially on Iraq. By the way, take a look at the book Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell, a UNITED STATES NAVY SEAL, who gives undeniable evidence of both Al Qaeda and WMD weapons programs in Iraq. His missions came across evidence all the time. Back to the point, Obama wants to retreat from our sworn enemies, implement over $900 billion of federal spending when we're already in debt, is a racist, and has a wife who essentially has no feelings of love for the great country that graciously raised the little !@#$% she is and gave her the freedom to be educated at Princeton, but she's a woman too good to pay back her student loans, right? I guess she wasn't proud of her country when the Rangers climbed Puont de Huc in the midst of German bombardment, or the raising of the flag on Mt. Suribachi, or the SEALS that were shot in the chest and the neck and even the head yet continue to use all remaining stength to defend their fellow soldier, Marcus Luttrell, in the Battle for Murphy's Ridge. Obama doesn't give a @#$% either because he supported his lovely wife throughout. The guy's an *******.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Wack indeed.

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

They should have. I did. Why would you vote for someone who couldn't string together a complete sentence unless he has practiced it thousands of times beforehand (and then still gets it wrong most of the time)? He has mangled this country like he mangles the English language every day, and yet some still wonder where things went wrong (here's a clue: in his dad's testicles.)

Oh, wow, you're so clever to regurgitate those faggot bumper sticker lines. "Bush lied, people died." Wow, I'm so freakin' sweet. Why don't you get over your nursery rhymes and string together your own flawless lines of English poetry? Grow a pair of your own testicles.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Who said they were brainwashed? They're just the representatives of a poorly informed public. I loved Bush from the start, and I still do. Sure, he should be tougher on immigration. But he sticks with his guns, especially on Iraq. By the way, take a look at the book Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell, a UNITED STATES NAVY SEAL, who gives undeniable evidence of both Al Qaeda and WMD weapons programs in Iraq. His missions came across evidence all the time. Back to the point, Obama wants to retreat from our sworn enemies, implement over $900 billion of federal spending when we're already in debt, is a racist, and has a wife who essentially has no feelings of love for the great country that graciously raised the little !@#$% she is and gave her the freedom to be educated at Princeton, but she's a woman too good to pay back her student loans, right? I guess she wasn't proud of her country when the Rangers climbed Puont de Huc in the midst of German bombardment, or the raising of the flag on Mt. Suribachi, or the SEALS that were shot in the chest and the neck and even the head yet continue to use all remaining stength to defend their fellow soldier, Marcus Luttrell, in the Battle for Murphy's Ridge. Obama doesn't give a @#$% either because he supported his lovely wife throughout. The guy's an *******.

[Teller]

A day does not pass when conservatives on this board attempt to slam Obama supporters as delusional, brainwashed, tricked, etc.

Having just been appropriately called for talking out of my own ass, I'll pass the favor along.

Today.

Let's see it.

[Sarge]

One need only look back to 1975

[Tastes Like Chicken]

I loved Bush from the start, and I still do.

(glancing at your age)

You mean, you loved him since you were 9? :whoknows:

[isle-hawg]

A day does not pass when conservatives on this board attempt to slam Obama supporters as delusional, brainwashed, tricked, etc.....

NOW conservatives across the country have distanced themselves from him. They claim that he is not a Republican in any shape, way, or form....

So what happened? Were you not able to see this with the great foresight, which you clearly have NOW about Obama (and use to mock his supporters)?

I'm conservative and an Independent, for the last 20+ years neither party is "conservative" in my book. But as of late if your asked me to choose, I would side with the Dems, as more conservative. I say this as the Rep talking heads bashed Clinton for having budget surpluses that god forbid were paying down the debt... While Limbaugh and his ****es like Hannity and O'Rielly are defending Bush's massive tax cuts for the richest and supporting massive defeciets.

Unless you generally vote FOR the candidate, independent of party, then with all due respect, who cares? Satan could run for president for either party, and he'd still have his party's core defending his actions as though he were the greatest thing ever. I'd say you're brainwashed by the party, not by the candidate.

You have that right!

[IHOPSkins]

....In 2000, he was seen by many Republicans as a true conservative and the voice of the party. That is clearly not the case. So why should those people be lecturing Obama supporters on how to see through the BS?

Experience? (dirty word for the Obamination)

Once Bitten?

[ChocolateCitySkin]

Who said they were brainwashed? They're just the representatives of a poorly informed public. I loved Bush from the start, and I still do. Sure, he should be tougher on immigration. But he sticks with his guns, especially on Iraq. By the way, take a look at the book Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell, a UNITED STATES NAVY SEAL, who gives undeniable evidence of both Al Qaeda and WMD weapons programs in Iraq. His missions came across evidence all the time. Back to the point, Obama wants to retreat from our sworn enemies, implement over $900 billion of federal spending when we're already in debt, is a racist, and has a wife who essentially has no feelings of love for the great country that graciously raised the little !@#$% she is and gave her the freedom to be educated at Princeton, but she's a woman too good to pay back her student loans, right? I guess she wasn't proud of her country when the Rangers climbed Puont de Huc in the midst of German bombardment, or the raising of the flag on Mt. Suribachi, or the SEALS that were shot in the chest and the neck and even the head yet continue to use all remaining stength to defend their fellow soldier, Marcus Luttrell, in the Battle for Murphy's Ridge. Obama doesn't give a @#$% either because he supported his lovely wife throughout. The guy's an *******.

:doh: