Guest isjoining Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Anyone have video of any of Cambell's play action fakes? I never noticed any of the things the OP mentions, although I am not doubting him. here is one 1:38 into the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXNsOLG0NaA&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 One thing that's always bugged me about Jason's mechanics is that his play action fake couldn't fool Helen Keller on a foggy day. Well said :laugh: I agree, JC's play action is pretty awful, but considering how good our RBs are, it doesn't have to be THAT great, because defenders have seconds to react to these things and Portis can score from all over the field--they're going to respect his ability and some defenders may overreact to even a poor play-fake because of that. Also, I agree that Zorn will definitely help with this...like another poster said, he really focused on that in Seattle, so I'm sure he'll be very critical of JC's play action fake and will work on it and improve it as he sees fit. Another thing I'd thought I'd mention, I think Brett Favre's play action was awful at times. He's always had a very, very distinct handoff--his arm was always very rigid and he would stay far away from the RB--with his arm extended to hand it off. This made it very obvious, I thought, when he was handing it off, or faking because his fakes we're quicker and didn't look very realistic. Not comparing JC and Brett obviously, but I thought I'd mention that Favre--being one of the best ever--may not have had the best fake. Good post, welcome aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdskn4Lyf21 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 here is one 1:38 into the videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXNsOLG0NaA&feature=related Just watching that gets me excited....JC has so much potential. Zorn was brought here to develop that. Only a few months away....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 The "too tall" theory is poppy****. Yes, poppy****. Not only are about half the quarterbacks in the league within an inch or two of Campbell's height, but any new prospect under 6'1" immediately gets saddled with the "too short" label. And now you're telling me that 6'5", the same height as Peyton Manning, is too tall? Again, poppy****. As for Todd vs. Colt, I think Todd's wave of Conan O'Brien-like hair seals the deal on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 Well said :laugh:I agree, JC's play action is pretty awful, but considering how good our RBs are, it doesn't have to be THAT great, because defenders have seconds to react to these things and Portis can score from all over the field--they're going to respect his ability and some defenders may overreact to even a poor play-fake because of that. While Portis is good, I don't think that fact really affects much when it comes to Jason's fake. When the whole point of the thing is to trick defenders who are peeking into the backfield, it's not gonna be very successful if the visual element - Jason's fake - is extremely unconvincing. You could have Jim Brown back there and the defenders still wouldn't be fooled if they could plainly see that the quarterback is keeping the ball. Oh, and gracias for the welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Yeah I don't really understand the "too tall" theory either, but I figured this was just some QB secret I never heard of... The thing I don't understand is weeks ago Zorn talked about JC needing to play shorter and more compact, but if you listened to Zorn's interview Thursday after the OTA's he talked about JC not seeing over the d-line to spot where the receivers were and then added "even though he is 6'5". So which is it? Seems Zorn wants JC to play shorter but then was critical when he didn't immediately see the whole field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 While Portis is good, I don't think that fact really affects much when it comes to Jason's fake. When the whole point of the thing is to trick defenders who are peeking into the backfield, it's not gonna be very successful if the visual element - Jason's fake - is extremely unconvincing. You could have Jim Brown back there and the defenders still wouldn't be fooled if they could plainly see that the quarterback is keeping the ball.Oh, and gracias for the welcome. I sort of disagree. If you put someone like Marcus Mason in the backfield, the defenders aren't even going to bother peeking. If LTs back there, the LBs are worried about him busting through the line and making them look stupid as he churns through the defense for another TD. The visual element is obviously important but its also a "Gee am I really that concerned if the RB gets the ball, or am I worried about the QB dropping back and hitting someone deep." In all of my extensive football playing (read: one year before injuries) I know thats how I would think, but thats just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stp240 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 i dont think its that bad? like the shooter video showed in isjoining's post, he gives a pretty damn good play action fake b4 hitting cooley in stride. mind you, Mark Brunell did it much worse, he literally kept both hands on the ball and did a 6 inch punch movement of the ball while being about 4 ft from the running back... Maybe it was just something that this coaching staff did not value that highly? I think they felt as though it was more important for the qb to get his head around and look up field and also, if the RB spots a blitzer he has to immediatly block him and forget the PA fake. As a former QB i kno that a PA fake is much more the Running Back's responsibilty. We as qbs can fake like were givin him the ball but if he doesnt carry out the fake like he has the ball, it will never work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamroller#99 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Campbell's natural ability is evident. Now he has someone coaching him that is proven to get results at the position. Zorn knows what he is doing, and has seemed very thorough in press conferences. I can't imagine Zorn wanting to do an interview detailing each and every tweak he plans for Campbell's mechanics. That interview would be hours long most likely. This has probably already been addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 I sort of disagree. If you put someone like Marcus Mason in the backfield, the defenders aren't even going to bother peeking. If LTs back there, the LBs are worried about him busting through the line and making them look stupid as he churns through the defense for another TD. The visual element is obviously important but its also a "Gee am I really that concerned if the RB gets the ball, or am I worried about the QB dropping back and hitting someone deep." In all of my extensive football playing (read: one year before injuries) I know thats how I would think, but thats just me. True, but if defenders aren't at all concerned with the running game, then a godawful play action wouldn't matter at all, would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I'm about 94.6% sure that Jason's play action abilities are the least of are worries with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 True, but if defenders aren't at all concerned with the running game, then a godawful play action wouldn't matter at all, would it? :laugh: Very true, and I was exaggerating by using Marcus Mason as an example but I stand by my point, JC should work on it but I think it helps that we have a great running back and O-line that loves to run block. We'll see my friend, we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I'm about 94.6% sure that Jason's play action abilities are the least of are worries with him. I'm 95.6% sure, I win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 What Zorn is trying to do with Jason, the "play more compact" thing, makes a ton of sense, and if you watch Brady (6-4) or Peyton (6-5) they both seem to play from a more "athletic" position than standing straight up. So, I'm not one to bash the living daylights out of Gibbs like some on this board, but here's something I will take a shot at: They really didn't spend a lot of time teaching technique to QBs. That fault first lies with Gibbs, then with Al Saunders (for the last couple of years) and finally with whoever the QB coach was at the time. But it absolutely looks like Campbell tried hard to pick up all the systems, but no NFL coach really worked with him on technique. EDIT: 95.987% sure. Beat that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 What Zorn is trying to do with Jason, the "play more compact" thing, makes a ton of sense, and if you watch Brady (6-4) or Peyton (6-5) they both seem to play from a more "athletic" position than standing straight up.So, I'm not one to bash the living daylights out of Gibbs like some on this board, but here's something I will take a shot at: They really didn't spend a lot of time teaching technique to QBs. That fault first lies with Gibbs, then with Al Saunders (for the last couple of years) and finally with whoever the QB coach was at the time. But it absolutely looks like Campbell tried hard to pick up all the systems, but no NFL coach really worked with him on technique. EDIT: 95.987% sure. Beat that. Yea I've noticed that too. Especially in Peyton. Hopefully it translates well for Jason. Only time will tell though. An even 97% FTW!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 i dont think its that bad? like the shooter video showed in isjoining's post, he gives a pretty damn good play action fake b4 hitting cooley in stride.mind you, Mark Brunell did it much worse, he literally kept both hands on the ball and did a 6 inch punch movement of the ball while being about 4 ft from the running back... Maybe it was just something that this coaching staff did not value that highly? I think they felt as though it was more important for the qb to get his head around and look up field and also, if the RB spots a blitzer he has to immediatly block him and forget the PA fake. As a former QB i kno that a PA fake is much more the Running Back's responsibilty. We as qbs can fake like were givin him the ball but if he doesnt carry out the fake like he has the ball, it will never work. Using a single play to evaluate Campbell's play action fake is a bit simplistic, don't you think? I do get the feeling that the coaching staff didn't value Campbell's fake that highly, which, in my opinion, is even more of a mistake with a power running game than it would be for Zorn to not change it for his West Coast offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 What Zorn is trying to do with Jason, the "play more compact" thing, makes a ton of sense, and if you watch Brady (6-4) or Peyton (6-5) they both seem to play from a more "athletic" position than standing straight up.So, I'm not one to bash the living daylights out of Gibbs like some on this board, but here's something I will take a shot at: They really didn't spend a lot of time teaching technique to QBs. That fault first lies with Gibbs, then with Al Saunders (for the last couple of years) and finally with whoever the QB coach was at the time. But it absolutely looks like Campbell tried hard to pick up all the systems, but no NFL coach really worked with him on technique. EDIT: 95.987% sure. Beat that. I think you're totally right, while I have no idea what Gibbs actually worked on with JC, he certainly didn't improve him enough--Zorn immediately started talking about changing things about JC's mechanics when he got here. Yea I've noticed that too. Especially in Peyton. Hopefully it translates well for Jason. Only time will tell though.An even 97% FTW!!! I just talked to Jason, he's not worried about it at all. In fact he thinks you guys are dumb ****s for even thinking that he has a bad play-action fake. 100% certain, close thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Hubbs]This is a pretty minor detail in the grand scheme of things, but I figure, with another two months of offseason to kill, it merits some discussion. One thing that's always bugged me about Jason's mechanics is that his play action fake couldn't fool Helen Keller on a foggy day I think Campbell's play action fakes are effective. They may not be as pretty as some other QB's but they work and isn't that what counts? -Zorn will make Campbell better in all aspects of his game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 I think you're totally right, while I have no idea what Gibbs actually worked on with JC, he certainly didn't improve him enough--Zorn immediately started talking about changing things about JC's mechanics when he got here. To be fair to Gibbs, there seem to be two schools of thought in the NFL about a young quarterback's mechanics - some say to try to "fix" them, some say that causes more problems than it solves and the best solution is instead to mold the offense around what the quarterback does best playing as he always has. Apparently, Gibbs went with the latter. I actually don't think that has anything with the play action motion, though - I think it's more likely that, as someone said earlier in the thread, it was more a matter of the coaches emphasising Jason getting his head around as quickly as possible, sacrificing a convincing fake in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 I think Campbell's play action fakes are effective. They may not be as pretty as some other QB's but they work and isn't that what counts? -Zorn will make Campbell better in all aspects of his game Just out of curiosity, why do you say that they work? It's practically impossible to consistently judge how a fake affects opposing defenses while watching on TV. Sure, plenty of the plays wound up working anyway, but it's not like play action plays completely rely upon the fake in order to be effective. They simply have it built in to gain another advantage over the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudhog Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 i dont think its that bad? like the shooter video showed in isjoining's post, he gives a pretty damn good play action fake b4 hitting cooley in stride.mind you, Mark Brunell did it much worse, he literally kept both hands on the ball and did a 6 inch punch movement of the ball while being about 4 ft from the running back... Maybe it was just something that this coaching staff did not value that highly? I think they felt as though it was more important for the qb to get his head around and look up field and also, if the RB spots a blitzer he has to immediatly block him and forget the PA fake. As a former QB i kno that a PA fake is much more the Running Back's responsibilty. We as qbs can fake like were givin him the ball but if he doesnt carry out the fake like he has the ball, it will never work. This is a good point about Brunell and his lame sell of the play action. But I can hardly blame him for not putting more effort into it. When we just about always passed on third downs(Run,Run,Pass), who was still left in the box to try to fool? Now that we won't be following Gibbs credo of run, run, pass, it is much more important to try an disguise this movement with good technique. Hail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I just talked to Jason, he's not worried about it at all. In fact he thinks you guys are dumb ****s for even thinking that he has a bad play-action fake. 100% certain, close thread. Well considering he asked me to spend the night at his house last night, which I happily accepted, I can conclude that you are 100% full of ****. Thread re-opened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Well considering he asked me to spend the night at his house last night, which I happily accepted, I can conclude that you are 100% full of ****.Thread re-opened. He's invited to my birthday party and you're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 JC is not comfortable turning his back on the D. He can't read a D consistently without his backed turned to it. Expecting him to do it after he turns his back is not reality. Could be wrong though. Maybe Madden has a drill Zorn can copy to teach JC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 He's invited to my birthday party and you're not. Aww. Come on. I'll bring LaRonnnnn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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