Historic Times?

[The 12th Commandment]

I'm struck today with the fact that we just chose a black man over a woman for the democratic nominee. The fact that either one of them was there, to me, is amazing and a sign of just how far our country has come. The fact that we nominated a black man to run for president of the democratic party is MONUMENTAL. History is now - IMO - and in 40 (or sometime in the future) years this is going to be looked back at as one of the most important and positive times in our history.

That said, I'm not voting for Obama and I'm not endorsing him...but my endorsement of his right to be there and a little pride in the fact that he his, is monumental as well.

Maybe you younger folks don't realize how big this is. 20 years ago I would've bet big coin that this would never happen. How glad I am that I'm wrong.

You think I'm taking it over the top? Stallone style?

[skinfan2k]

I heard this on the radio yesterday from Tony K and i thought it was a good point. Do you think that television prepared us for a black president. Shows like 24 with Dennis Haskell have allowed us to become aware and not be shocked.

[Burgold]

The only rotten thing is that it still will be used as a barometer, that is, people still can't judge him solely on the context of his ideas, but frequently need to add in race as an element.

The next step, is for things like this to become a matter of course and for the biggest story to be the platform, ideas, and person. I actually think we're much closer to that than I would have imagined too. We still hear too much about his race, but at least there are some conservatives trying to dislike him for his ideas and principles too.

I do imagine that race will always be part of the story in the same way that at the Olympics, there's always a part of me that is pleased when Poland (My Mom's birth country) or Israel does well. Still, that's more of a blue moon affection than an every day thought.

[The 12th Commandment]

I do believe you have a point sf2k. The exposure of black folks in general (as middle class regular americans) and independent minded, professional women in the media has to have had a big impact on this.

Something good to be said for popular culture perhaps?

[The 12th Commandment]

The only rotten thing is that it still will be used as a barometer, that is, people still can't judge him solely on the context of his ideas, but frequently need to add in race as an element.

The next step, is for things like this to become a matter of course and for the biggest story to be the platform, ideas, and person. I actually think we're much closer to that than I would have imagined too. We still hear too much about his race, but at least there are some conservatives trying to dislike him for his ideas and principles too.

I do imagine that race will always be part of the story in the same way that at the Olympics, there's always a part of me that is pleased when Poland (My Mom's birth country) or Israel does well. Still, that's more of a blue moon affection than an every day thought.

I agree that's an issue, but I'm interested in that particular aspect of it. That next step is a natural. If it weren't in the cards, he couldn't have been nominated in the first place I think. I don't think progress is rotten. No matter how incremental.

[Corcaigh]

I suppose can understand with the history of racial division in the country why a black candidate has taken so long to get here, but why a woman?

Pelosi just made her breakthrough a couple of years ago. The USA is decades behind other western nations in this regard. Was it just that there were no good candidates? Why did women not rise to the top of the political heap sooner in the USA?

[Smoot Point Really]

Let's just wait until he removes the title "presumptive" before we start making these "declarations"... So far, its just a footnote... In August, it will be something more official. In November... who knows...

[SKINS@THEGOALLINE]

A journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step. It is indeed, historic.

[Burgold]

I think you're right about that. Sometimes my impatience gets the best of me.

I think tony K and skinsfan is correct too, although I think I would give credit to Bill Cosby whose show was the first major hit featuring successful, fully human black families. Although, I did learn that every black family has a multitude of famous jazz musicians and about fourteen grandfathers from that show.

[Burgold]

I suppose can understand with the history of racial division in the country why a black candidate has taken so long to get here, but why a woman?

Pelosi just made her breakthrough a couple of years ago. The USA is decades behind other western nations in this regard. Was it just that there were no good candidates? Why did women not rise to the top of the political heap sooner in the USA?

I think this is an interesting issue too. I wonder if it has to do with remnants of the Wild West cowboy culture or our puritanical roots? Funny in a way since African Americans got the right to vote before women that the first candidate would be an African American and not a woman.

[Thiebear]

I definately think Television and Jesse etc. have paved the way to this point.

If McCain picks a black/Indian/Hispanic/Jewish VP it will be a done deal this election that one of the two positions have been breached.

[The 12th Commandment]

I definately think Television and Jesse etc. have paved the way to this point.

If McCain picks a black/Indian/Hispanic/Jewish VP it will be a done deal this election that one of the two positions have been breached...

...like a gunwale? :laugh:

[MDRedskinsFan]

I definately think Television and Jesse etc. have paved the way to this point.

If McCain picks a black/Indian/Hispanic/Jewish VP it will be a done deal this election that one of the two positions have been breached.

He's been laying under the radar, but I could see McCain choosing Lieberman to run with him this year. Not only for the Jewish appeal, but that like him, Lieberman is an independent thinker, and would balance out any diehard conservatives McCain chooses. Just the same could be said for Obama, I hope if he wins, he chooses a couple conservative cabinet members to help balance the weight. I think the most important thing we learned from the Bush administration is what can happen when you pick a cabinet that agrees on all issues, then there is no balance to overrule any stupid decisions you might decide upon.:2cents:

[Corcaigh]

I think the most important thing we learned from the Bush administration is what can happen when you pick a cabinet that agrees on all issues, then there is no balance to overrule any stupid decisions you might decide upon.:2cents:

Bushes problem wasn't all like-minded thinkers, it's that those who did have a different point of view were marginalized and ignored - take Powell for example.

[Burgold]

He's been laying under the radar, but I could see McCain choosing Lieberman to run with him this year. Not only for the Jewish appeal, but that like him, Lieberman is an independent thinker, and would balance out any diehard conservatives McCain chooses. :2cents:

I've thought about this and I've thought about it as something possible. I think though it would absolutely kill him on the Republican side. Republicans are already suscpiscious that McCain is not a true Republican and not a Conservative. If he adds Joe to the ticket, a Democrat, albeit an independent minded one, I think that would confirm all their worst fears about McCain and completely deflate them.

Politics aside, I think it is a somewhat interesting ticket.

[RabidFan]

Morgan Freeman - President in Deep Impact

Morgan Freeman - God in Bruce and Evan Almighty

Alanis Morrissette - God in Dogma

Obama - seen as the Messiah to some and a black one at that....we coulda just elected Morgan Freeman.

I'm excited about this shift but still think that until either a woman or a black man(and not half white) that I won't believe it till I see it....there is still a lot of bigotry and that cowboy culture in rural areas of this country.....can't wait till that is over and people are seen for who they are and not what they are.

[The Sisko]

That said, I'm not voting for Obama and I'm not endorsing him...but my endorsement of his right to be there and a little pride in the fact that he his, is monumental as well.

This sentiment is precisely what Michelle Obama meant by the "proud of her country for the first time" comment. Not to go too far off on a tangent but I understand exactly what she, and you meant. It's not literally the first time, just the first time we could be proud of our country on this level. This is light years ahead of anything that's happened to date.

The only rotten thing is that it still will be used as a barometer, that is, people still can't judge him solely on the context of his ideas, but frequently need to add in race as an element.

The next step, is for things like this to become a matter of course and for the biggest story to be the platform, ideas, and person. I actually think we're much closer to that than I would have imagined too. We still hear too much about his race, but at least there are some conservatives trying to dislike him for his ideas and principles too.

Agreed wholeheartedly. One of the things I had a hard time understanding and accepting during my college radical days was the incremental nature of change. Obama getting the nomination and Hillary's close 2nd, regardless of what happens in November, sets the stage for minority and women candidates to take the next step and be seen simply as candidates, not as black/women/______ candidates.

The other reason Obama's candidacy has been so encouraging to me is that if he wins, we will have a historic opportunity to deal with a lot of what ills the black community internally. In particular, the idea that being smart is somehow a white attribute. That if you work hard and keep your nose clean, you can succeed in spite of the vestiges of racism that remain in this country. There's more, but I think you all get the picture. (In best Trump voice) This is huuuuge!!

[Burgold]

In particular, the idea that being smart is somehow a white attribute. That if you work hard and keep your nose clean, you can succeed in spite of the vestiges of racism that remain in this country. There's more, but I think you all get the picture. (In best Trump voice) This is huuuuge!!

I'm not sure how pervasive that thought process is, but if "smart" is considered a "white" attribute by a sizeable portion of the black community, then this could have and I hope would have a profound impact.