goldenster95 Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 This is a load of crap. How did the poor Jets or anyone get stiffed? . . . the Jets and the whole world, for that matter, knew what the terms of the contracts were, hence their statement that they weren't surprised by the deal when they actually got it . . . prior to that time, they actually profited from the delay in signing since it gave them extra time to think about whether to match and/or prepare a contingency plan . . . as for the other teams in the league, they knew Coles hadn't signed either . . . that meant that they could've offered him a contract too . . . Incredible . . . http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/6251729 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Any chance you can post the article - thats a blocked site from my work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 Here ya go, EG . . . NFL investigating Redskins-Coles transaction Jay Glazer March 14, 2003 By Jay Glazer SportsLine.com Senior Writer The Washington Redskins' signing of Laveranues Coles to an offer sheet is threatening to cost them a lot more than a first-round pick. SportsLine.com has learned that upon urging from the New York Jets, the National Football League is investigating Washington's signing of Coles to determine whether the Redskins violated league rules. Dan Snyder has taken a few former Jets, but his dealings with Laveranues Coles might cost him more than he intended. (AP) Dan Snyder has taken a few former Jets, but his dealings with Laveranues Coles might cost him more than he intended.(AP) Those rules state a restricted free agent is allowed to negotiate with another team but is prohibited from reaching an agreement without signing the offer sheet. By agreeing to a deal, the Redskins had essentially pulled Coles off the open market several days before he signed it. The possible penalty, if any wrongdoing is proved, could be significant in terms of draft picks and/or a fine. Coles and the Redskins have both admitted to having a deal done Sunday. However, the Jets didn't receive the offer sheet until late Wednesday as the Redskins failed to have the salary cap room to finalize the signing. The structure of the agreed-upon deal required the Redskins to free up a little over $2.3 million in cap space. Earlier in the week, the Jets asked the NFL to look into the matter and the league began gathering information to determine if enough evidence existed that a deal was actually finalized days before it was signed. Several sources close to the situation confirmed the investigation, but admitted it could be difficult for the league to prove that the Redskins had actually broken the rules. Last week, Coles admitted that he was upset with the Jets and that he had been contacted by another team's owner. Since he is a restricted free agent, such contact is not considered tampering. In recent days Coles has gone as far as saying he is a Redskin and has urged the Jets not to match the sheet. In a conversation with Jets assistant general manager and chief negotiator Mike Tannenbaum on Tuesday, Coles informed him that he was not coming back to New York. But again, up to that point, the Jets had yet to receive a formal offer sheet. The Redskins had also gone as far as giving Coles a jersey with the number 80 on it for him to don. That jersey and Coles' admission that he has agreed to a deal with the Redskins might be enough to qualify as a smoking gun. Should the league determine that the Redskins violated rules, it is doubtful they would strip them of their first-round pick to void the Coles' deal. League officials declined to comment on the investigation saying it was an internal matter. To get far enough under the $75.004 million salary cap ceiling to finally sign Coles, the Redskins reworked the contracts of Pro Bowl linebacker LaVar Arrington and defensive lineman Renaldo Wynn. The Redskins guaranteed more than $5 million of Arrington's salary for next season. That $5 million is taken from the 2003 cap and prorated over the final four years of his remaining contract. The Jets on Wednesday finally received the offer sheet and are considering whether to match the deal. They will have until late next week to make their decision. The offer was structured to be extremely cap friendly during the first three years of the contract. According to the terms of the deal, the salary cap numbers are as follows: $2.3 million this year, $2.3 million in 2004 and $3.3 million in 2005. In the fourth year of the deal, Coles' cap number becomes difficult to swallow at $6.8 million. In addition, Coles will be owed another $2 million in bonus money. In 2007 he would count $5.3 million against the cap and would be due another roster bonus -- this one of $500,000. The final two years of the deal has cap numbers of $6.8 million and $7.8 million. Coles' employer would likely be forced to restructure his contract in the fourth year. Should the Redskins pull this off, the Jets may actually end up in better shape. With the Jets receiving Washington's first-rounder, Herm Edwards' squad can sign another restricted free agent in Seattle's Darrell Jackson but still have a first-round selection. New York would have to send Seattle the 22nd pick in the first round if they sign Jackson to an offer sheet and Seattle declines to match. If this happens the Jets, in essence, would be trading Coles and the 22nd pick for Jackson and the 13th selection of the draft. Plus, Jackson's asking price for a long-term deal would likely be much cheaper than the price that Coles eventually will garner. Jackson also has better numbers than Coles since the two entered the NFL together (both were third-round picks in the 2000 draft). Coles is one of many free agents added to the Redskins roster this offseason. Dan Snyder's squad has raided the Jets in particular by signing kicker John Hall and guard Randy Thomas, and attempted to acquire return maven Chad Morton. They have also added wide out Patrick Johnson, RB Trung Candidate (via trade), defensive linemen Regan Upshaw and Brandon Noble, safety Matt Bowen, quarterback Rob Johnson and offensive lineman Dave Fiore. How have they been able to be so aggressive in the free-agent market? They have used a dangerous technique known in the football world as credit card management. In essence, they buy now but will pay heavily in the future and could be stuck with much of this talent whether they pan out or not. Next year the Redskins have over $17 million committed in prorated bonus money (this will increase if the Jets decline to match the Coles contract) to 40 players. In 2005 the Redskins have $13.3 million committed and $11.9 million committed in 2006. Snyder has also utilized an interesting structure for each contract to lessen the current financial burden. For nearly every deal that he is signing players to, the contracts include high signing bonuses and minimal salaries. This allows the Redskins to prorate the money for cap purposes over an extended period of time. To lighten the hit on his actual cash payouts this year, Snyder has deferred each of these signing bonuses through 2005. So instead of receiving the entire bonus up front, the players will be paid out in three separate installments. For example, Randy Thomas will receive his signing bonus in the following schedule: $2 million in April, another $2 million next April then $3 million in 2005. Brandon Noble receives $400,000 in April of this year, $600,000 next April and $800,000 in April of 2005. Coles, too, has a three-year payment plan. If the Redskins turn into solid playoff contenders Snyder will have a solid base for the next few years and may have the last laugh, albeit a costly one. But there is also great risk involved in using his strategy. Should Snyder's signees fail to perform up to task, he will be stuck with below-par players, which could be catastrophic to the roster. Should these players get hurt early in their Redskins careers, the team will likewise be stuck with them. Washington currently leads the NFL in dead money with nearly $13 million owed to players no longer on the roster. This is the third year in a row that Snyder's Redskins are near the top of the dead money pool. While football is a game, the NFL is first and foremost a business and giving away money to ex-employees is not a terrific business strategy. Still, the Redskins' hope is that these strategies will lead to a Super Bowl. The Jets may be hoping that the league will find that one of these strategies may have veered from the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyalligator Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Those pieces of SH*t I can't believe it they were out maneuvered by Snyder and now they are crying about it to the league office!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 I'd like to see what the actual CBA says, and would be willing to bet it says more than "reach an agreement." Sounds like to me it is a desperate attempt by the Jets to get the entire offer sheet nullified so they can have a chance to sign Coles to a lesser deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelM Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 I know this isn't exactly what they are saying, but if they want to get anal about it, it is impossible to have a player sign an offer sheet without agreeing to the deal prior to signing the offer sheet. A player wouldn't sign an offer sheet first then agree to the deal. Is there a time limit in the NFL rules? What if his agent had basically worked the deal and Coles agreed with it, but wanted to look over all the details or even sleep on it? Does this mean he had already agreed to it or not? It's nice that CBS pointed out the league is investigating this after the Jets urged them to do so. I see there is some bad blood brewing between the two front offices. The Jets need to realize it is an offer sheet, either match it or let him go and shut up about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Well here is the specific rule with bold added for emphasis: (d) One Offer Sheet. There may be only one Offer Sheet signed by a Restricted Free Agent outstanding at any one time, provided that the Offer Sheet has also been signed by a Club. An Offer Sheet, before or after it is given to the Prior Club, may be revoked or withdrawn only by the Clubs upon the written consent of the Restricted Free Agent. In either of such events, the Restricted Free Agent shall again be free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall again be free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such Restricted Free Agent, subject to the Prior Club’s continued Right of First Refusal and/or Draft Choice Compensation as described in this section. So the league would have to prove that the signatures from both Coles and the Skins were on the offer sheet before the Morton offer sheet was matched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 ...a restricted free agent is allowed to negotiate with another team but is prohibited from reaching an agreement without signing the offer sheet. I dont understand, how can you NOT reach an agreement before signing an offer sheet? Dont you reach an agreement and THEN sign the offer sheet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by Buddha Well here is the specific rule with bold added for emphasis: (d) One Offer Sheet. There may be only one Offer Sheet signed by a Restricted Free Agent outstanding at any one time, provided that the Offer Sheet has also been signed by a Club. An Offer Sheet, before or after it is given to the Prior Club, may be revoked or withdrawn only by the Clubs upon the written consent of the Restricted Free Agent. In either of such events, the Restricted Free Agent shall again be free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall again be free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such Restricted Free Agent, subject to the Prior Club’s continued Right of First Refusal and/or Draft Choice Compensation as described in this section. So the league would have to prove that the signatures from both Coles and the Skins were on the offer sheet before the Morton offer sheet was matched. And I believe the Jets matched Thrusday morning for Morton and the Skins signed Coles to an offer sheet the night before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All In Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Sour Grapes, Vengeful Jets? Why can't they get their revenge on the football field? What BS. They F'ed up on the Morton deal, so this is how they try to save face? Besides the facts of the article or what the Jets are trying to accomplish, my favorite part of this "article" is how they directly point the finger at Snyder. Instead of referring to "The Redskins, The Redskins Front Office, Daniel Snyder, Mr. Snyder" it's just an impolite basher article. Show some respect instead of coming off as an @sshole. Gees another person in the media has a bone to pick. My guess is that Jay Glazer isn't a Redskins fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Actually, I dont read it the same way Buddha. I think they are talking about 1 offer sheet per player, not per team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by goldenster95 Here ya go, EG . . . NFL investigating Redskins-Coles transaction Jay Glazer March 14, 2003 By Jay Glazer SportsLine.com Senior Writer Those rules state a restricted free agent is allowed to negotiate with another team but is prohibited from reaching an agreement without signing the offer sheet. By agreeing to a deal, the Redskins had essentially pulled Coles off the open market several days before he signed it. The possible penalty, if any wrongdoing is proved, could be significant in terms of draft picks and/or a fine. How can anyone PROVE the existance of a VERBAL agreement? Redman, How can this deal be considered binding and legal without his signature to beguin with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelM Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by The Evil Genius Actually, I dont read it the same way Buddha. I think they are talking about 1 offer sheet per player, not per team. I agree. I think it means the RFA can only have one signed offer sheet in the mix. If he had multiple offers, his original team could refuse to match all of them then multiple teams would be fighting over who had the rights to the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 I don't think this has anything to do with Morton. The provision prohibits an RFA from signing more than one agreement at a time. The Jets apparently are arguing that the non-signed agreement the 'Skins had with Coles effectively worked as a signed agreement and thus kept him off the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelM Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by tommy-the-greek Originally posted by goldenster95 Here ya go, EG . . . NFL investigating Redskins-Coles transaction Jay Glazer March 14, 2003 By Jay Glazer SportsLine.com Senior Writer Those rules state a restricted free agent is allowed to negotiate with another team but is prohibited from reaching an agreement without signing the offer sheet. By agreeing to a deal, the Redskins had essentially pulled Coles off the open market several days before he signed it. The possible penalty, if any wrongdoing is proved, could be significant in terms of draft picks and/or a fine. How can anyone PROVE the existance of a VERBAL agreement? Redman, How can this deal be considered binding and legal without his signature to beguin with? And if they are going to use what was said in the media as "proof", the league is in for some headaches. My head was spinning trying to figure out if Coles had signed the offer sheet or not. One article had him signing, while another said he had not. This went on for days. Who knows what was going on, but the fact is Coles signed the offer and the Jets have the choice to match it or not. It seems simple enough for me, but I guess the Jets are trying to start a new rivalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 This is patently ridiculous. Anyone could have signed Coles before he signed the 'Skins offer sheet. He wasn't off the market until then. Buddha's right, this is just desparate attempt by the Jets to buy time through semantics and obfuscation. And, though I'm officially against the size of the bonus given Coles, I just know the team will come out on the short end of this. They always do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelM Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by goldenster95 I don't think this has anything to do with Morton. The provision prohibits an RFA from signing more than one agreement at a time. The Jets apparently are arguing that the non-signed agreement the 'Skins had with Coles effectively worked as a signed agreement and thus kept him off the market. This isn't directed at you, but at the Jets. If he wasn't off the market, he would have most likely only signed an offer sheet which was better than what he had agreed to with the Redskins. This would have made it even harder for the Jets to match it. Did they hope the Bengals would make an offer for him so the Jets could get the number one pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All In Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 What I meant about the Morton deal is how the Jets and Morton are in arbitration (sp?). The two last voidable years. The Jets are under the assumption that they don't have to honor that agreement. Under that assumption they went ahead and matched it. Morton's camp and the NFLPA say that the Jet's are wrong, and if they don't comply then Morton should be a Redskin. Eff's things up doesn't it. That's what happens when you assume things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by The Evil Genius I dont understand, how can you NOT reach an agreement before signing an offer sheet? Dont you reach an agreement and THEN sign the offer sheet? You can always come to an agreement before reaching an offer sheet. It happens all the time since, in most cases, a verbal agreement is as good as written one. Among many other problems the Jets will have though is proving if in fact there was an agreement and no signature, what damage they suffered. Good luck with that one, Bradway. No harm, no foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by The Evil Genius Actually, I dont read it the same way Buddha. I think they are talking about 1 offer sheet per player, not per team. I can see where you are coming from, EG. But I went back and checked the CBA again and this is the ONLY place where "one offer sheet" is mentioned. Perhaps the Jets are requesting the league give a legal interpretation on whether it can be read the way I suggested, which could give them grounds for an investigation. But that would just make them look even more pathetically desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 And if it did mean 1 team, what does that mean about Bowen's signing? He was an RFA with an offer sheet out at the time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by Buddha I can see where you are coming from, EG. But I went back and checked the CBA again and this is the ONLY place where "one offer sheet" is mentioned. Perhaps the Jets are requesting the league give a legal interpretation on whether it can be read the way I suggested, which could give them grounds for an investigation. But that would just make them look even more pathetically desperate. This isn't just desperation on their part, it's nothing short of the bitter scorn of a forlorn lover. This is truly pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by The Evil Genius And if it did mean 1 team, what does that mean about Bowen's signing? He was an RFA with an offer sheet out at the time too. Well I think we've sufficiently noodled this one through, and shat upon the Jets' argument. The Bowen and Morton offer sheets overlapped by five days, yet no one in the league office complained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokieskin Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Why would the skins be penalized if the rules say that a RFA can't reach an agreement without signing the offer sheet? According to this article, the rule talks about the RFA not the team. If that is the cause and I don't know if it is bc I don't know the rules, then Coles should be fined or suspended bc he broke the rules not the skins. Maybe the jets are trying to screw Coles. Buddha, where do you find the CBA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Yeah their reaching, not to worry though well make them pay on opening day. The most interesting thing in the article was that the skins have about 13 mil in dead money. I'm not sure who exactly would count as dead money after next season (I'm think it would only be BDW if we cut him) but atleast it tells you we would have cap money next offseason, and also have a really young team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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