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FA: Do you really need 'em?


GiantFan0605

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interesting first post.

edit-

i knew i would live to regret the day i rooted for the giants in the super bowl.

btw- how'd that arse beatin taste last time our teams met?

well, Grego, I won't take the bait, but will ask if you believe in poetic justice for that goal line, er....never mind....

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Anything that sounds like a "recipe for success" is probably stupid...

There are 31 losers in the NFL every year, so 1 out of 31 chance of success following the herd isn't my idea of a "plan" (OK, just because some nerd is going to say 1 out of 32... let me say that I'm not including OUR team in the 31, since that would be the herd).

Basically, you build your team through the draft AND free agency... There is no "fundamental flaw" in this.

There are teams who get lucky and land on a franchise quarterback in the 6th round... Their are other teams who end up losing three of the top draft choices in the last four years to death or injury.

Everyone looks at the Patriots as the "recipe for success". They had the most prolific offense, but did it by rebuilding their wide receiver corps through Free Agency. Before that, they got their starting running back of last year (Corey Dillon) through Free Agency. Their Pro Bowl Linebacker (Mike Vrabel) started his career as a Pittsburgh Steeler. Their Strong Safety started as a San Diego Charger. Junior Seau (Chargers), Adalius Thomas (Ravens)... I'll bet that close to 50% of their active players who actually play regularly came from Free Agency.

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What happens if the Giants don't make the playoffs this year? Will it be the fault of the front office?

Coughlin gets fired and they draft a QB. NY fans were done with these two. I have been defending Eli to Giants fans for 3 years. I told them to give him time, but they didn't like his posture or the expressions on his face.

I live in upstate NY and I go into people's houses everyday to install satellite TV. Even the 2 weeks before the Superbowl I couldn't find a Giant fan who thought they would win, they still said Eli can't get it done. Even the die-hards with Giants junk plastered all over their house were doubting him.

Now they are both heroes, what a difference 1 game makes.

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Anything that sounds like a "recipe for success" is probably stupid...

There are 31 losers in the NFL every year, so 1 out of 31 chance of success following the herd isn't my idea of a "plan" (OK, just because some nerd is going to say 1 out of 32... let me say that I'm not including OUR team in the 31, since that would be the herd).

Basically, you build your team through the draft AND free agency... There is no "fundamental flaw" in this.

There are teams who get lucky and land on a franchise quarterback in the 6th round... Their are other teams who end up losing three of the top draft choices in the last four years to death or injury.

Everyone looks at the Patriots as the "recipe for success". They had the most prolific offense, but did it by rebuilding their wide receiver corps through Free Agency. Before that, they got their starting running back of last year (Corey Dillon) through Free Agency. Their Pro Bowl Linebacker (Mike Vrabel) started his career as a Pittsburgh Steeler. Their Strong Safety started as a San Diego Charger. Junior Seau (Chargers), Adalius Thomas (Ravens)... I'll bet that close to 50% of their active players who actually play regularly came from Free Agency.

And? Your actually going to compare the two teams/FOs?

I'm not saying that it's one or the other exlusively - hence the word SUPPLIMENT.

Question: How many FA busts have the Patriots had in, say, the last decade?

I'm all for some savy FA signings where prudent, but you can't begin to compare our team and the Pats, simply because they've had success with a relatively heavy FA roster. How much $ did Moss make this season? Seau? How much dead money did they carry this year? How many draft picks did they lose on the Dillon deal? Did they cut him the following offseason?

Archuleta, Bruce Smith, Deion, Lloyd, Trotter, Brunell, Duckett, Patton, etc, etc. This doesn't include the list of guys who have come here with marginal results at best - Holdman, Daniels, Armistead, Washington, Griffin, Morton, Hall, etc.

Then there are those "core guys" that we let walk - Clark, Pierce, Arrington, etc.

Atleast Smoot came home.

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And? Your actually going to compare the two teams/FOs?

I never compared the two teams... Here was your statement:

Any philosophy that promotes BUILDING a team through FA is fundamentaly flawed.

SUPPLIMENT - yes.

BUILD - no.

My response was to say that there are no fundamental flaws with building a team using Free Agency AND the Draft. There is no "recipe" to be followed, you simply make decisions and sometimes they work out and other times they don't.

I'm not saying that it's one or the other exlusively - hence the word SUPPLIMENT.

Do you believe the New England Patriots consider Randy Moss and Wes Welker merely a supplement to the team they drafted? Adalius Thomas, was he a supplement? Junior Seau was perhaps a supplement. Mike Vrabel, was he a supplement? Was Corey Dillon a supplement a few years ago? Rodney Harrison? Chris Hanson?

Question: How many FA busts have the Patriots had in, say, the last decade?

Yes, it suits your argument to change the subject... I could easily point to other teams who appear to follow a recipe and suck.

My argument is that there is no recipe in the age of the salary cap... You use whatever means are at your disposal for improving your team. Some decisions work better than others, but you could make stupid decisions drafting players as easily as you can make stupid decisions picking up Free Agents.

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Any philosophy that promotes BUILDING a team through FA is fundamentaly flawed.

SUPPLIMENT - yes.

BUILD - no.

Pretty much.

You get your core from the draft, you get the filler in FA. FAs have already been exposed to other systems, whereas rookies learn your system first. It works best that way.

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AR40,

The quote assumes you know who will produce or not prior to signing the player. It is the classic MMQB scenario. If we'd won the Super Bowl after getting Deion and Bruce, we'd have looked like geniuses (or perhaps the NY Yankees). When the Patriots drafted Brandon Merriweather, do they actually know if he will pay off better than had they went after Ken Hamlin and then used the pick on another position? A lot of this comes down to luck and circumstance... Of course, the Patriots were able to rent Randy Moss at a moderate price. Just like the Cowboys were able to get Terrell Owens at a moderate price because of his age and personality. Sometimes, you just get lucky.

One thing that is clear about our strategy... Letting Fred Smoot and Antonio Pierce go set off an avalanche of bad moves and forced us to trade up and hire free agents to fill gaps. This is MMQB'ing, but I'd like to think we learned from this mistake and that has resulted in us signing Chris Cooley to a long term deal. Hopefully, we won't be wasting many more draft picks in the future...

The key is maximizing all player acquisitions... not just focusing on one area or the other.

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