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Poll: Is Govt providing Public Education a case of "socialism"?


alexey

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I find it funny that as real socialism and communism continue to weaken American redefine the terms in order to find something else to complain about. Suddenly there is a cry for failed versions of capitalism that existed in our nations history and currently exist in the third world.

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I consider it an investment into the future of our country

Items such as education and infrastructure (roads, utilities) are investments into the future. There is a return on having top level education, and top level infrastructure

Yep, the question is whether we can call "socialism" a process of Government taking money from the people and investing it on those people's behalf into the country's future.

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I consider it an investment into the future of our country

Items such as education and infrastructure (roads, utilities) are investments into the future. There is a return on having top level education, and top level infrastructure

Ideally, it should be. However, that's simply not the case when the gov't pours more and more money into it with little or no accountability and the quality continues to degrade. The US pays more than double the OECD average per student per year in public education for a year that's 2 months shorter, and yet we rank near the bottom of industrialised nations in math and science. The problem has grown consistently worse as more federal funds and the accompanying bureaucracy continue to grow almost exponentially.

Our university system is the best in the world, because it's completely based on choice and merit. Our primary and secondary public educational systems are among the worst, because they're run by the gov't. I'm not advocating pulling the plug on public education; rather I believe it needs a major overhaul that will never happen in the face of opposition from powerful political forces like the NEA. Instead, the public will continue to slouch along and be brainwashed into believing that all our woes can be solved by spending more money on education.

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Yep, the question is whether we can call "socialism" a process of Government taking money from the people and investing it on those people's behalf into the country's future.

Well there are certain areas where you will get an ROI. Education is one area, if done right. Riggo-Toni's post is correct talking about how pathetic our K-12 education is due to the fact that one entity controls it, unlike our university systems

You get ROI from infrastrucutre improvements, education investments, and military investments (look how many advancements started in the military and moved to the private sector) Other areas of spending, you simply do not get any ROI

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Ideally, it should be. However, that's simply not the case when the gov't pours more and more money into it with little or no accountability and the quality continues to degrade. The US pays more than double the OECD average per student per year in public education for a year that's 2 months shorter, and yet we rank near the bottom of industrialised nations in math and science. The problem has grown consistently worse as more federal funds and the accompanying bureaucracy continue to grow almost exponentially.

Our university system is the best in the world, because it's completely based on choice and merit. Our primary and secondary public educational systems are among the worst, because they're run by the gov't. I'm not advocating pulling the plug on public education; rather I believe it needs a major overhaul that will never happen in the face of opposition from powerful political forces like the NEA. Instead, the public will continue to slouch along and be brainwashed into believing that all our woes can be solved by spending more money on education.

Can you conclude that Government is not capable of providing good public education simply because highschools in US are bad and colleges in US are good? There are too many other issues in play.

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Well there are certain areas where you will get an ROI. Education is one area, if done right. Riggo-Toni's post is correct talking about how pathetic our K-12 education is due to the fact that one entity controls it, unlike our university systems

You get ROI from infrastrucutre improvements, education investments, and military investments (look how many advancements started in the military and moved to the private sector) Other areas of spending, you simply do not get any ROI

Getting a good ROI does not make it any more or any less "socialist" of a concept.

our K-12 education is due to the fact that one entity controls it, unlike our university systems

This argument is not supported by evidence. Yes public education has been severely mismanaged in the US, but plenty of other countries have great public education.

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This argument is not supported by evidence. Yes public education has been severely mismanaged in the US, but plenty of other countries have great public education.

And plenty of other countries have choice in public education

In America, you cannot choose which public school to attend, which is why there are so many issues. Look at Belgium and their education system

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I'm pretty sure other industrialized nations who do better than us, also have government run public education... so the fact that it's government run may not be the best variable to compare. I do think that other systems spend more of their resources on promising students, while we try to give everyone the same education.

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Yes, of course it is, and further, anyone who is a teacher and so was forced to sit through "History of Education" in grad school knows that the founder of our modern educational system in the U.S. was, in fact, an actual socialist, if I'm remembering correctly.

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And plenty of other countries have choice in public education

In America, you cannot choose which public school to attend, which is why there are so many issues. Look at Belgium and their education system

My point exactly - there is nothing inherently wrong with the concept of a Government running Public Education (even though it is a case of "socialism").

There can be plenty of things wrong with any particular implementation of this concept, however, as we see in the USA.

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Yes, of course it is, and further, anyone who is a teacher and so was forced to sit through "History of Education" in grad school knows that the founder of our modern educational system in the U.S. was, in fact, an actual socialist, if I'm remembering correctly.

Socialism and education go hand and hand. All those commie ****s used to hide as professors. Now, all their students are the professors. :doh:

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Sure it is. So is Defense. The very act of paying taxes for some common effort (govt being the manifestation of that common effot) is "socialistic." "Governments are instituted among men" to secure certain rights, "deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." We do not establish corporations to secure our rights, we establish governments, which functions from tax revenues from the governed, to achieve a common goal. This notion is inherently socialistic. It is, therefore, an evil that must be stopped at all costs.

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It should be pointed out that excluding a small handful of anarchists, even the most ardent champions of capitalism and free enterprise recognize that there are market failures such as infrastructure, military, law enforcement, and education where gov't serves a purpose. Perhaps the distinction lies in the fact that libertarians/capitalists believe in a cost/benefit analysis (whether that's dollar cost, or the cost of personal freedoms) when determining what and how big gov't programs should be, whereas socialists believe that the free enterprise system is inherently corrupt and gov't should oversee as much of the economy as possible to prevent abuses.

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Certain powers and responsibilities are given to states, which is the federalist principle this country was founded upon. This was intentionally framed by the Founders.

Most funding and organization for public schools is received at the state/local level. What's good for the state is good for the country. The Department of Education is an unnecessary bureaucratic entity.

Teddy Kennedy's brainchild No Child Left Behind is seeped in socialism with intentions of putting the Federal government's hands where they do not belong.

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