Jack Kent Cooke vs. Daniel Snyder

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I've heard some great things about Cooke, but I remember hearing some negativity about him from my elders. What were the qualms about Cooke? Were you mad at first that Cooke hired a coordinator, Joe Gibbs, to be our coach? Try to think back when you disliked him the most, does it compare to how you feel about Snyder right now?

[Teller]

Just seeing those two names together in the thread title makes me feel ill. (Not trying to bust your chops.)

Look, here's the primary difference, IMO:

When Bobby Beathard went to JKC and said, "Look, I think we need to give this guy Joe Gibbs a serious look," Cooke said he wasn't interested. He wanted a big name. A "big splash" hire. He even said that we would "crucify" him for hiring Gibbs.

But when Beathard insisted, Mr. Cooke gave in, and the rest is happy history.

Football people should make football decisions. JKC understood that. Snyder? Not so much.

*edit* Seriously though. That thread title puts me in the mind of "Joe Gibbs vs. Steve Spurrier" or something to that effect. It just doesn't even look right.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Just seeing those two names together in the thread title makes me feel ill. (Not trying to bust your chops.)

Look, here's the primary difference, IMO:

When Bobby Beathard went to JKC and said, "Look, I think we need to give this guy Joe Gibbs a serious look," Cooke said he wasn't interested. He wanted a big name. A "big splash" hire. He even said that we would "crucify" him for hiring Gibbs.

But when Beathard insisted, Mr. Cooke gave in, and the rest is happy history.

Football people should make football decisions. JKC understood that. Snyder? Not so much.

*edit* Seriously though. That thread title puts me in the mind of "Joe Gibbs vs. Steve Spurrier" or something to that effect. It just doesn't even look right.

Totally understand, just trying to get a better perspective for everyone.

But what was the time you most disliked Cooke? Even if it was just a little.

[Teller]

Totally understand, just trying to get a better perspective for everyone.

But what was the time you most disliked Cooke? Even if it was just a little.

I can't recall a time, honestly. I didn't like the Wilbur Marshall signing at first (I think I just wasn't used to free agency yet.) I kinda figured with the group of guys we had, you couldn't just take a Bear and make him a Redskin.

And um, yeah.

I pretty much couldn't have been more wrong. :laugh:

(I think that was a Beathard move in all honesty though. As opposed to the Bruce Smith, Jesse Armstead, Jeremiah Trotter, James Washington, etc, etc, debacles.)

[Long-Time-Fan]

I sometimes wonder who I should be most upset with?

JKC or Snyder.

It is after all JKC's fault we have Ole Danny Boy and not John Cooke.

[scruffylookin]

I don't remember ever being upset with JKC while he was alive.

Looking back, I can see that he "took his foot off the pedal" in the 90's (but given his age I understand).

I was too young to really remember all the off field stuff at the time, but I suspect that if there was an internet back in the late 70's or very early 80's, there would have been many threads ripping Cooke as "that Canadian coming here from LA" who is ruining the Redskins as the Skins slipped at the end of the Allen Era and throughout the Pardee Era.

That said, Cooke hired a bright young personel man (Bobby Beathard) from a highly successful organization (Dolphins) and let him run the team. Snyder, in nearly 10 years as owner, has yet to do anything close to this and that fact alone (along with his record as owner) is enough for me to say that Dan Snyder isn't even a wart on a cist on JKC's butt right now.

[HapHaszard]

One thing I remember about JKC was when the Redskins put a bad team on the field after the year Joe left, Jack made a public announcement telling the fans how bad he felt fielding a team like that. He made mistakes at times but he did care about what quality of team he put on the field.

He was hard nosed, demanded perfection, and usually got his way, but he also put experienced football people in place and let them do their job.

[Chief skin]

BIGGEST DIFFERENCE and the only one that matters Mr Cooke hired a GM and let him hire a coach (yes he was apprehensive about it but trusted in his football guy)

LOSER SNYDER KNOWS IT ALL and his record speaks foor itself friggin LOSER

[andyburd]

JKC was the greatest except for the worst hiring of all time, NORVAL

[Smoot Point Really]

This whole thread is ridiculous... There are so many changes to the game.

You do realize that if Snyder was in charge of the Redskins and we didn't have a salary cap, he'd probably spend more than any owner to field a competitive team regardless of the cost. You'd have every A-list free agent walking through our doors like the Yankees, and while we wouldn't win championships every year, we would be highly competitive. I also think Joe Gibbs would decide to extend his career (remember his first retirement coincided with the introduction of the salary cap).

There was a fear that Jack Kent Cooke would attempt to move the team (he was from Los Angeles). If you don't think that's possible, just look where he built the stadium.

I don't really believe you can compare Dan Snyder or Jack Kent Cooke... It would be unfair to either. However, I do think with Daniel Snyder we have stability in an owner who is committed to this team and this area and won't move to a bigger market.

[aussieskin]

If Bobby Beathearde was still with the skins and Dan listened to him like Jack Kent Cooke did the skins would be a lot better off, I believe that Bobby Beathearde was the one who made the big difference in JJG1 time.

[@DCGoldPants]

I think the Norv years was really John Cooke's doing.

Jack was pretty much phased out of day to day Redskins life. Those were his final few years.

The Early 1980's as owner of the Skins was probably the best example of how he owned a team. He surrounded himself with the right football people, and let them do their jobs. Then was the final tie-break when somebody like the Coach and GM didn't agree.

[alleycat]

Answering to OP's question. I remember the talk being ...

WHO IN THE F IS JOE GIBBS ??? He is SOOO young !!! Where did he come from ??

And then we learned it was from AIR Coryell team(SD).And that JJG was the one behind the O !! Back then...Dan Fouts threw for 1 million yards a year.He threw the ball to several guys and they did pert damn well.

We were excited for the BIG AIR game that was coming...But also confused because WE were a RUN team . We lost the first 5 games with JOE and YES...Many were ****ing up a storm.And then he morphed into a HC that Ran to set up the run rather than the opposite.Then the love affair began.

We loved JKC because he was so blunt and it was kinda funny.We also learned over the years that he did not get his fingers in the decision making. The GM and Joe would tell him what we wanted and he said OK..BUT IT BETTER DAMN WELL WORK !! Of course it always worked so we never knew if he could be nasty.

He liked hot young chicks and loved being rich and didn't apologize for it. he also slicked his hair back and wore cool glasses.He made you think of Jack Nicholson...and cool would it be to hang with jack.

HE WAS THE OPPOSITE OF DANNY...Mr.Cook made you think being rich was cool and that he would be the coolest Grand dad EVER...Ole'Danny makes you hate rich folk...and he would be a geek in person who would want to collect pokemon cards and trade some with ya...If he didn't get the trade he wanted he would just buy all your cards and laugh at you !

This is of course just my opinion...But I was equal to the BIGGEST fan back then and followed The Skins quite closely...

Now I love the Skins just as much...But I have a dilemma...How to Pull for the Skins while hoping Danny fails !!

In the end...I would rather him get richer and happier...and I just get my Skins back !! JUST COLLECT YOUR MONEY DANNY AND GIVE US BACK OUR TEAM.

[DOOG]

Here is an honest one I remember. JKC's personal life, more directly his wives, were a friggin mess. They were constantly in the press for something. Here are a few headliners...

1979 — Cooke divorces first wife, the former Jeannie Carnegie. The settlement made the Guinness Book of World Records as the largest at that time ($49 million). The presiding judge was Joseph Wapner of "People's Court" fame.

Oct. 31, 1980 — Cooke marries Las Vegas socialite Jeanne Maxwell Williams. They divorce 10 months later.

July 24, 1987 — Cooke marries third wife, Suzanne Martin. She later claimed that the marriage was contingent upon her aborting a fetus conceived by Cooke. After the wedding, she decided to have the baby and the marriage was dissolved after 73 days.

May 5, 1990 — Cooke marries Marlena Remallo Chalmers, who served 3½ months in federal prison in the 1980s for conspiring to import cocaine into the country. The marriage is declared void 3½ years later because Chalmers' divorce from a previous husband was ruled invalid.

July 1995 — Cooke re-marries Marlena Remallo Chalmers.

Marlena was a mess...

Here is a postive..Dan hasnt been able to work his wife into the mix.....yet.... :logo:

[alleycat]

Here is an honest one I remember. JKC's personal life, more directly his wives, were a friggin mess. They were constantly in the press for something. Here are a few headliners...

1979 — Cooke divorces first wife, the former Jeannie Carnegie. The settlement made the Guinness Book of World Records as the largest at that time ($49 million). The presiding judge was Joseph Wapner of "People's Court" fame.

Oct. 31, 1980 — Cooke marries Las Vegas socialite Jeanne Maxwell Williams. They divorce 10 months later.

July 24, 1987 — Cooke marries third wife, Suzanne Martin. She later claimed that the marriage was contingent upon her aborting a fetus conceived by Cooke. After the wedding, she decided to have the baby and the marriage was dissolved after 73 days.

May 5, 1990 — Cooke marries Marlena Remallo Chalmers, who served 3½ months in federal prison in the 1980s for conspiring to import cocaine into the country. The marriage is declared void 3½ years later because Chalmers' divorce from a previous husband was ruled invalid.

July 1995 — Cooke re-marries Marlena Remallo Chalmers.

Marlena was a mess...

Here is a postive..Dan hasnt been able to work his wife into the mix.....yet.... :logo:

Come on...."The ****es set him up !! "

[DOOG]

Come on...."The ****es set him up !! "

:notworthy :laugh: :applause: :notworthy :applause: :laugh:

Jack loved him some women....can fault him for that for sure! And it NEVER showed in his ownership of the SKINS. :logo:

[Ax]

If Bobby Beathearde was still with the skins and Dan listened to him like Jack Kent Cooke did the skins would be a lot better off, I believe that Bobby Beathearde was the one who made the big difference in JJG1 time.

And yet when forced to choose between Gibbs and Beathard, it was bye bye Bobby. He then turned it over to Casserly. Who, depending on who you ask, was either terrible, fantastic, or "at least a GM".

Regardless, Gibbs always had final roster authority. Even when Bobby was here.

Jack hired a ****ing Cowboy, and infected us all with Norvitus.

He left the team in total disarray with how his will worked out.

[Nafniksder]

That said, Cooke hired a bright young personel man (Bobby Beathard) from a highly successful organization (Dolphins) and let him run the team. Snyder, in nearly 10 years as owner, has yet to do anything close to this and that fact alone (along with his record as owner) is enough for me to say that Dan Snyder isn't even a wart on a cist on JKC's butt right now.

I couldn't agree more. HTTR

[PCS]

True story on that one. Bobby's group brought the players in, (Joe was involved in that as well..at least at times),but Joe decided who made the team.

[nneece]

I sometimes wonder who I should be most upset with?

JKC or Snyder.

It is after all JKC's fault we have Ole Danny Boy and not John Cooke.

Upset for JKC setting the bar too high that Snyder can never match? A primary difference between JKC and Snyder is that JKC did not try to play GM. He was a business man first and foremost and he relied on good GM's for the football side of the operation.

[jimster]

I remember as a young kid, getting up for school one cold January Monday morning, and hearing on WMAL that George Allen had been fired. The coach that never had a losing season and got us to the playoffs all but one season, and to our only Superbowl. I remember that was quite devastating to Redskins fans. At that time JKC hadn't been the majority owner for very long. Firing George Allen in those days would be like Snyder firing Gibbs after a 9-5 season, 67-30-1 overall. Then he hired Jack Pardee and we never sniffed the playoffs.

I love JKC and don't mean to speak badly of him, but he wasn't perfect like everyone else. He did a lot of things right but had some mistakes too. His biggest blessing was striking gold with the Bobby Bethard/Joe Gibbs combo.

JKC also didn't have the size of the media that it is today, internet and message boards, so who knows how he would have been portrayed if all those things existed back then.

JKC and Snyder are similiar in a lot of ways.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Snyder married fewer coke whores....so that's a plus.

In all fairness to Snyder, Cooke was an awful human being who made his players completely miserable at times.

On the whole, he was a pretty good sports owner (for both the Redskins and Lakers) because he had a knack for finding talented executives and letting them do their jobs. When he would meddle, it was typically over very petty things.

[chipwhich]

I sometimes wonder who I should be most upset with?

JKC or Snyder.

It is after all JKC's fault we have Ole Danny Boy and not John Cooke.

John Cooke was and would have been a dud as an owner. He was totally uninvolved. We would have fumbled around in mediocrity with him as well.

[chipwhich]

I remember as a young kid, getting up for school one cold January Monday morning, and hearing on WMAL that George Allen had been fired. The coach that never had a losing season and got us to the playoffs all but one season, and to our only Superbowl. I remember that was quite devastating to Redskins fans. At that time JKC hadn't been the majority owner for very long. Firing George Allen in those days would be like Snyder firing Gibbs after a 9-5 season, 67-30-1 overall. Then he hired Jack Pardee and we never sniffed the playoffs.

I love JKC and don't mean to speak badly of him, but he wasn't perfect like everyone else. He did a lot of things right but had some mistakes too. His biggest blessing was striking gold with the Bobby Bethard/Joe Gibbs combo.

JKC also didn't have the size of the media that it is today, internet and message boards, so who knows how he would have been portrayed if all those things existed back then.

JKC and Snyder are similiar in a lot of ways.

Great Post.

JKC didn't get where he was by being a nice guy. He was a pit bull. Most feared him. If you crossed him he would fire you in a heart beat.

[Dan T.]

Jack Kent Cooke was a pompous, egotistical ass. But he was a BELOVED pompous, egotistical ass. He was OUR pompous, egotistical ass, with his regal bearing, those funky sunglasses, and that upper crust accent. He would butter us up, declaring us "the best bloody fans on the face of the earth."

Like Snyder, he was a huge fan. Like Snyder, he had an open wallet policy when it came to acquiring players. But that was before the salary cap, when free spending wasn't penalized like it is today.

Here's a major difference between Cooke and Snyder. To Cooke, the Redskins were a toy, a diversion to take his mind off business matters. To Snyder, the Redskins ARE his primary business. And maybe that's the source of their operating styles. When it came to the football side of things, Cooke hired the best people he could get, then stayed the hell out of their way. Snyder apparently wants to be right in the mix of football operations. Very different ownership styles. So far, one's worked and the other hasn't.