Brady... the best of all time???

[Forehead]

Re your Manning stuff, Brady might have broken the TD record, but how did he do it? Did he break the TD record like Manning did, not playing the full time for the last two games? Anyways again even if you say hes better than Manning, he still isn't the best of all time.

I'm not sure "even if" should be in there, he IS better than Manning...he's done more with much less offensively, though I will admit that New England has had solid defenses most of the time.

But really...who would you put ahead of Brady at this point? You can't fault him for playing in a favorable time period with more passing. I mean sure, I appreciate what Baugh and Unitas did, but I think Brady has been a more successful quarterback than either of them. He's has more rings than people like Marino and Elway, he holds some single season passing records, he's basically emasculated Peyton Manning (his only real competition) in head to head matchups.

The only people I can see any legit argument for are Bradshaw based strictly on number of rings (and that may be a moot point in a week) or Joe Montana. I know stats don't quantify everything, but sometimes you can tell when a guy has that extra something. Maybe it's in their playoff record (of which Brady's is stellar) or the way they always seem to drive for a touchdown when it's really needed. Montana had it, Elway had it, Brady most certainly does. As much as I think he's talented, I don't think Manning has that extra gear to him. I hope Jason Campbell develops it.

[Forehead]

Definitely meant Bob Griese. And I'm glad you brought up Terry Bradshaw. Because few dare put Terry Bradshaw in the ranks with Elway and Marino because he just wasn't as good at these guys regardless of his SB wins. I think getting to the SB is WAY overrated in comparing positional players because football is such a team sport. I mean, does Trent Dilfer rank above Marino?

I agree on Bradshaw, but he does need to be mentioned in these conversations. I know Pittsburgh had the Steel Curtain and the running game, but I think Bradshaw did a bit more for those teams than Trent Dilfer. I mean, I can at least name some of Bradshaw's receivers like Swann and Stallworth. I don't know if I can name a single person Dilfer threw to. Maybe Qadry Ismail? Baltimore's defense was the QB of that club. Dilfer was like whoever got to coach the Dream Team in the '92 Olympics. Just sit there, smile, and don't F anything up.

[Santana_Fan]

I wonder how many people are saying Brady isn't the best, because of their "hate" for the Patriots. :doh: I'd love to see any other QB than Brady, have Reche Caldwell, Deion Branch, Troy Brown, and David Givens, and win 3 Superbowls with them. Where are all those receivers now? Branch is the only receiver doing anything now. None of his RB's were great. Come on now...

[KevinthePRF]

I wonder how many people are saying Brady isn't the best, because of their "hate" for the Patriots. :doh:

I have no hate for the Patriots and feel good for Pats fans if they win this Sunday. They deserve it. That team has spent a majority of its tenure in the basement where the highlight of the year was the NFL draft.

[pjfootballer]

Not buying into that yet. I think that's a decision you have to make after they retire and you can look back on their career. He's very impressive, though.

I agree. When the dust settles and his career is over, then make your decision.

just to clarify, i dont think he is....

yes, vinatieri did win those sbs. to those pats fans out there, if you want to say otherwise, then you can't blame manning for the loss to pittsburgh. was it not manning who made the plays when they counted most???? 2 touchdown drives and a potential fg tying drive all in the 4th. If vandy makes that fg.... different ball game.

Thats not to take away from brady, but just look at everything from the same standpoint, not the most conveniant one.

Also, in regards to Brady having the best season stats ever... ummm, yea he set the td recorda at 50..... but what other record did he brake this year???

He didn't break the record for qb rating, he didn't break the record for yards, he didn't break the record for attempts or completions, he didn't break the record for completion percentage.... so if you want to call breaking 1 record by only 1 when the previous holder played 2 less games than brady when he broke it, then fine, whatever...

Now, now, don't sound bitter. I like Peyton better then Brady, but the record WAS broken no matter how you slice it or hate it (which I do).

[KevinthePRF]

I agree on Bradshaw, but he does need to be mentioned in these conversations. I know Pittsburgh had the Steel Curtain and the running game, but I think Bradshaw did a bit more for those teams than Trent Dilfer. I mean, I can at least name some of Bradshaw's receivers like Swann and Stallworth. I don't know if I can name a single person Dilfer threw to. Maybe Qadry Ismail? Baltimore's defense was the QB of that club. Dilfer was like whoever got to coach the Dream Team in the '92 Olympics. Just sit there, smile, and don't F anything up.

That's my point. It's a team game. Dilfer can't be ranked up there because he just doesn't have the individual accomplishments despite him playing on a wonderful team that had one of the best defense's of all time, (like Pittsburgh in the 70s) and a top notch Oline and good running back in Lewis.

And though I consider Bradshaw better than Dilfer, I don't put him on the level of Marino or Elway because these guys had the capability of putting a team on their back and win games and get their team into the playoffs despite the lack of talent around them. Marino never had it, Elway didn't have it until 1997. But they were still consistent winners despite their supporting cast.

In judging elite players the question should always be asked, did they make their team better or did their team make them better?

[pjfootballer]

Even though Brady won 2 SB's by getting his team in position to win, I'd still take Joe Montana over any of them. To me, he was the best in the playoffs and at crunch time. He didn't get the nickname "Joe Cool" for nothing. 92 yards against the Bengals with minute and a half.

[sableholic]

I'm not sure "even if" should be in there, he IS better than Manning...he's done more with much less offensively, though I will admit that New England has had solid defenses most of the time.

But really...who would you put ahead of Brady at this point? You can't fault him for playing in a favorable time period with more passing. I mean sure, I appreciate what Baugh and Unitas did, but I think Brady has been a more successful quarterback than either of them. He's has more rings than people like Marino and Elway, he holds some single season passing records, he's basically emasculated Peyton Manning (his only real competition) in head to head matchups.

The only people I can see any legit argument for are Bradshaw based strictly on number of rings (and that may be a moot point in a week) or Joe Montana. I know stats don't quantify everything, but sometimes you can tell when a guy has that extra something. Maybe it's in their playoff record (of which Brady's is stellar) or the way they always seem to drive for a touchdown when it's really needed. Montana had it, Elway had it, Brady most certainly does. As much as I think he's talented, I don't think Manning has that extra gear to him. I hope Jason Campbell develops it.

First off, done more with much less offensively? He has never passed Manning in passing yards aside from this year and 2005. He has eclipsed 100+ QB rating once in his career vs Manning's 3. His avg QB rating is lower than Mannings. His best QB rating season (this year), is still lower than Mannings best. He has eclipsed 4000+ yards passing twice in his career, Manning has eclipsed 4000+ yards passing every year except for two (2 out of 8 vs 8 out of 10). Brady holds one meaningful single season record for a QB, the passing tds one, so by some you must have meant one. And that one record he has he got in the last game of the season, a game in which he played the full time pretty much. Do you know that Manning threw two passes in week 17 of his record year?

More successful than Unitas? Hardly. And yes I can fault him for playing in a favorable time period for offenses. Look at what Unitas was able to do in a time when there was no pampering of the qbs, when there wasn't tons of rules designed to aid offenses, when most offenses were running the ball instead of passing. Unitas won a super bowl, two nfl championships, holds a record that will never be broken (47 straight games with a td pass), oh and not to mention he literally called his own plays. Not in the Manning here's three plays choose one way either, he literally could and did call his own plays. I could keep going, but I won't.

The point is even if you want to say he's the best current qb, he still isn't the best ever. Not to take away anything from him either, because he certainly is going to go down as one of the greatest, but not the greatest. I think too many people are making this mistake simply because he has so many rings. Don't forget players like Otto Graham who took his team to the championship game six times in his six nfl years and won three titles (won 7 in total playing professional football, 4 of which came before the NFL formed).

Even though Brady won 2 SB's by getting his team in position to win, I'd still take Joe Montana over any of them. To me, he was the best in the playoffs and at crunch time. He didn't get the nickname "Joe Cool" for nothing. 92 yards against the Bengals with minute and a half.

I'd take Joe over Brady as well.

[Fanatic684]

Re your Manning stuff, Brady might have broken the TD record, but how did he do it? Did he break the TD record like Manning did, not playing the full time for the last two games?

Well to counter that, if we're comparing whose TD record is more legit, then it's also fair to mention that Manning plays his home games in a dome. I'd say both of them had some advantages over the other.

As for Brady being the best ever, the guy is only 30 yrs old. He could get hurt tomorrow and never play another season. The point being we tend to make these pronouncements about players way too early. Wait until his career is all said and done, and then we can see where he stands.

[hokie4redskins]

Perhaps, but you gotta hand it to the Patriots FO for surrounding him with talent. That O-line is just plain sick. Add a cheating HC, merciless RUTS, and VOILA, dynasty!

[Redskins4ever]

Tom Brady is a very good QB. In fact, he's excellent. But he's nowhere near the best of all time. Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Bret Farve, Joe Namath, Steve Young, John Elway, Jim Kelly, and Troy Aikman are ahead of him. Even in the current era, I don't think he's in Peyton Manning's league either.

[Oldskool]

He has never dominated a SB. He has been accurate, if not unspectacular. He plays well within the system and doesn't make mistakes.

Best ever? No.

[SkinsFanAnt]

yeah...he's the best ever...IF you count him as part of the offensive line that gets away with a disgusting volume of holding

[29AddaiForHeisman]

i just want to point something out that few have noticed.... Brett Favre and Peyton Manning have had EXTREMELY similar careers excluding only Favre's incosistent recieving core and Mannings amount of regular season success. Brett has been to 2 superbowls and won 1, manning has been to 1 and won it. Im not sure about the postseason record for Favre, but id bet its close to Mannings. They both have won multiple MVP awards and are dominating the NFL recordbooks. Finally, they hold both the #1 and #2 longest streaks for consecutive games started.

If so many people put Favre in the convo. for best QB of all-time and his career isn't even over, then why can't Manning be there too? On that note, if so many people want to say that Brett Favre is better than Brady when looking at the entire career, then wouldn't that put Manning over Brady???

i know that is a somewhat sketchy string of logic, but i think it holds atleast some truth. And one thing that nobody can argue is that they all 3 play during the same era/time or whatever you want to call it, so they are definitely comparable.

[No_Pressure]

No Sammy Baugh= no Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Roger Staubach, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, Jim Kelly, John Elway, Sonny Jurgensen etc.

[VCDefectors]

Arguably the best of the current era, but not the best of all time.

If Brady wins his 4th superbowl, and given the season he had this year, I can't see any reason why Brady isn't deserving of that consideration. Imagine how much more damage Brady could have done to defenses had he had the set of receivers he has this year his entire career.

[Forehead]

First off, done more with much less offensively?

You misunderstand. I was pointing out that Manning has always had someone like Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne (or both) to throw to. Until Randy Moss this season, Tom Brady has never had a threat like that. Manning also had the benefit of Edgerrin James in the backfield, and Addai is looking pretty good right now as well. I suppose you can count one season of Corey Dillon, but Brady hasn't had a consistent backfield threat either. My point it, with less offensive talent to work with, Tom Brady has accomplished more.

This Super Bowl has "No Holds Barred" written all over it. Brady as Zeus, Manning as Hulk Hogan, and Eli Manning as Hulk's wimpy little brother. We're at the scene where Zeus is about to maul the younger brother and practically kill him. The only difference is that instead of Hulk (Peyton) coming back for revenge, Zeus has already whipped up on him a number of times. Perhaps Archie should suit back up and take on the Patriots. Then Brady can own the entire family.

['SKINSRICH]

Joe Montana is still the best that I've seen in my lifetime. If Brady were to win this game vs. the Giants, I would say he's the best.

But....... as stated in other posts in this thread, Sammy Baugh is the single greatest player at the QB position this league has ever known, PERIOD! :logo: