29AddaiForHeisman Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 just found this article on another forum and thought id add it here... http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke27jan27,1,5943068.column?page=1&ctrack=2&cset=true I think its pretty interesting how no matter what were arguing, it seems that anything current takes the extreme and the greats of previous times are forgotten. This article does a great job recognizing one of the alltime greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGreenistheBest Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Arguably the best of the current era, but not the best of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 he's definitely looking down being one of the best ever. He has not had consistent WR's his whole time. Aikman always had Irvin at WR and Emmit at RB and Novachek at TE. Brady has had: Branch, Patten, Givens, Moss, Stallworth, Troy Brown, and probably others at WR, Maroney, Antowain Smith, Kevin Faulk at RB, Ben Watson, Daniel Graham, some other guys at TE. Basically, other than Moss, none of those guys mentioned have a chance to make the Hall of Fame. Yet Smith is a shoo-in (relatively), Irvin is already in, and Novachek was known as a great blocker and receiver as well. Other teams also had better help at one point or another. I mean, even the Redskins, we had Monk, Clark, and Sanders for at least 2 of the winning super bowls, if not all 3. We also had a great o-line blocking. the 49ers always had Jerry Rice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM916 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I'd go with Sammy Baugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvisit1 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Arguably the best of the current era, but not the best of all time. Just playing devil's advocate... Wouldn't statistics and records prove otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana_Fan Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Of course he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I'd go with Sammy Baugh. bingo! Baugh introduced the forward pass to the game. Prior to Baugh, the pass was used mainly in desperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance04 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 he's definitely looking down being one of the best ever.He has not had consistent WR's his whole time. Aikman always had Irvin at WR and Emmit at RB and Novachek at TE. Brady has had: Branch, Patten, Givens, Moss, Stallworth, Troy Brown, and probably others at WR, Maroney, Antowain Smith, Kevin Faulk at RB, Ben Watson, Daniel Graham, some other guys at TE. Basically, other than Moss, none of those guys mentioned have a chance to make the Hall of Fame. Yet Smith is a shoo-in (relatively), Irvin is already in, and Novachek was known as a great blocker and receiver as well. Other teams also had better help at one point or another. I mean, even the Redskins, we had Monk, Clark, and Sanders for at least 2 of the winning super bowls, if not all 3. We also had a great o-line blocking. the 49ers always had Jerry Rice. He also had powerhouse people like bethel johnson and Christian Fauria to throw too. What he has done with what he has had, is quite amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 you know when his career is almost over, we could be seeing a QB that might have 6-7 superbowl rings and have maybe 4-5 Superbowl MVPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Comparing QB's of different eras is next to impossible. As much as I can't stand him, he's definitely up there but how you can say one guy is the best of all time is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Portis # 26 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 If He wins Sunday, then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcnativenerd Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Not buying into that yet. I think that's a decision you have to make after they retire and you can look back on their career. He's very impressive, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 If He wins Sunday, then yes. I agree. What more does the guy have to do to prove it? He got rings playing with castoffs at WR, and now he'll have his 4th; plus an undefeated season, plus the best single season stats ever. Granted, you can't compare stats from different eras because of the rules change, but still.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stophovr6 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Didn't NE win two of it's super bowls thanks to Vinateri? I'm not ready to crown him yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance04 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Didn't NE win two of it's super bowls thanks to Vinateri? I'm not ready to crown him yet. lol wow. Guess who drove down the field to put vinatieri in position to kick the FG. In 2001 he did it within a minute, with no timeouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doncherry Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Didn't NE win two of it's super bowls thanks to Vinateri? I'm not ready to crown him yet. Tom Brady is what we thought he was....if you're ready to crown his @#$#@, then crown him, but the Chargers let him off the hook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29AddaiForHeisman Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 just to clarify, i dont think he is.... yes, vinatieri did win those sbs. to those pats fans out there, if you want to say otherwise, then you can't blame manning for the loss to pittsburgh. was it not manning who made the plays when they counted most???? 2 touchdown drives and a potential fg tying drive all in the 4th. If vandy makes that fg.... different ball game. Thats not to take away from brady, but just look at everything from the same standpoint, not the most conveniant one. Also, in regards to Brady having the best season stats ever... ummm, yea he set the td recorda at 50..... but what other record did he brake this year??? He didn't break the record for qb rating, he didn't break the record for yards, he didn't break the record for attempts or completions, he didn't break the record for completion percentage.... so if you want to call breaking 1 record by only 1 when the previous holder played 2 less games than brady when he broke it, then fine, whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Brady will go down as one of the best of all time, and probably the best of our era (not to take away from Peyton, who I personally like more). But it's really impossible to say that he's the greatest of all time, considering how the game has evolved and changed since back then with Elway, Marino, and Montana. The rules have changed with more protection for the QBs, the QBs and the WRs are protected alot more by the officials, and the defenses aren't allowed to be nearly as rough as they were back then. Who's to say this current offense would've survived against defenses like the Steelers one back in the 70s, or the Bears defense in the 80s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sableholic Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Can't be the best of all time if you aren't the best QB currently. Even if you want to argue that he is better than Manning, he is not the best of all time. The game has changed far to much in favor of the offense. I'd have to go with Unitas or maybe Montana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 1. Baugh 2. Elway 3. Marino 4. Unitas 5. Montana 6. Tarkenton Those 6 for sure I rank above Brady, after that we can argue Bob Griese, Roger Starbach, Troy Aikman, Bart Starr, and Peyton Manning. These 5 I put into the same category as Brady right now, and that includes Brady winning the SB this Sunday. The teams Brady has played on hasn't always had HOF players around him. But at the same time they have never suffered through having a glaring holes anywhere on offense either. This especially goes for the offensive line. In the area of parity, New England's offense has done a masterful job at staying above the field. I think the front office of New England is a key to Brady's overall success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Didn't NE win two of it's super bowls thanks to Vinateri? I'm not ready to crown him yet. If a kicker gets less than 5 field goals, he shouldn't be given credit like that. He was clutch, but Brady lead the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSkins Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 If a kicker gets less than 5 field goals, he shouldn't be given credit like that. He was clutch, but Brady lead the way. The point is that we wouldn't be having the conversation because Brady wouldn't have the rings. There is a big difference between Joe Montana and Jim Kelly. edited for grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 1. Baugh2. Elway 3. Marino 4. Unitas 5. Montana 6. Tarkenton Those 6 for sure I rank above Brady, after that we can argue Brian Griese, Roger Starbach, Troy Aikman, Bart Starr, and Peyton Manning. These 5 I put into the same category as Brady right now, and that includes Brady winning the SB this Sunday. Brian Griese? The drunk? Who backs up in Chicago currently? I hope you meant Bob Griese, and even then, how the hell does any Griese compare to what Brady has done. I'm no New England fan, but I agree, Tom Brady will be the best of all time when his career is finished. If he wins this weekend, he'll be tied for the most Super Bowl wins of all time by a QB, with Terry Bradshaw I believe. He's had the pu pu platter of receivers for most of his career, never had a 1st tier RB (Dillon was closest) yet he always seems to make things happen. He's easily better than Marino, who never won a Super Bowl. I don't care what kind of arm Marino had, great players get it done all the way. I would have lumped Elway into the same boat until he finally got it done in the late 90's. just to clarify, i dont think he is....yes, vinatieri did win those sbs. to those pats fans out there, if you want to say otherwise, then you can't blame manning for the loss to pittsburgh. was it not manning who made the plays when they counted most???? 2 touchdown drives and a potential fg tying drive all in the 4th. If vandy makes that fg.... different ball game. Thats not to take away from brady, but just look at everything from the same standpoint, not the most conveniant one. Also, in regards to Brady having the best season stats ever... ummm, yea he set the td recorda at 50..... but what other record did he brake this year??? He didn't break the record for qb rating, he didn't break the record for yards, he didn't break the record for attempts or completions, he didn't break the record for completion percentage.... so if you want to call breaking 1 record by only 1 when the previous holder played 2 less games than brady when he broke it, then fine, whatever... Vinatieri did not win those Super Bowls. Did he make the game winning kicks? Yes, but he didn't score all the points. He wouldn't have been in position to win the game if not for the 59 minutes of effort made by the rest of the team, with Brady leading the way. Not only did Brady set a season record for TD catches, he also completed damn near 400 passes. That's incredible, though not the record. Brady even took away Manning's record for TD passes in a season. What does Manning have now? A Super Bowl ring? Brady is about to get his 4th. The season record for TD passes...nope, Brady just took that from him. The best QB-Receiver combination in the game...sorry, Brady-Moss just eclipsed any one season Manning ever had with Harrison or Wayne. All Manning has now is a father who doesn't realize his career ended a few decades back, and a younger brother who will probably be emasculated in a few days by...yes, Tom Brady. I may not like it much myself, but Brady will eventually be the best QB in the history in the league; maybe by the end of next week if he isn't already. I don't like it, you don't like it, but I'm not going to try and take anything away from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sableholic Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Vinatieri did not win those Super Bowls. Did he make the game winning kicks? Yes, but he didn't score all the points. He wouldn't have been in position to win the game if not for the 59 minutes of effort made by the rest of the team, with Brady leading the way. Not only did Brady set a season record for TD catches, he also completed damn near 400 passes. That's incredible, though not the record.Brady even took away Manning's record for TD passes in a season. What does Manning have now? A Super Bowl ring? Brady is about to get his 4th. The season record for TD passes...nope, Brady just took that from him. The best QB-Receiver combination in the game...sorry, Brady-Moss just eclipsed any one season Manning ever had with Harrison or Wayne. Re bolded Vinatierri section, did Brady score all the points? So would you say that Brady won all the super bowls for his team? Even the first one, where he was 16 - 27 for 145 yards and 1 td? The pats defense in the three super bowls had 5 ints, 1 td, and 3 fumble recoveries I believe, those surely helped. The kicker should get as much credit as the qb, since the qb didnt drive all the way for a td. The QB did his part getting them there and the kicker did his part winning the game for them. Re your Manning stuff, Brady might have broken the TD record, but how did he do it? Did he break the TD record like Manning did, not playing the full time for the last two games? Anyways again even if you say hes better than Manning, he still isn't the best of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Brian Griese? The drunk? Who backs up in Chicago currently? I hope you meant Bob Griese, and even then, how the hell does any Griese compare to what Brady has done.I'm no New England fan, but I agree, Tom Brady will be the best of all time when his career is finished. If he wins this weekend, he'll be tied for the most Super Bowl wins of all time by a QB, with Terry Bradshaw I believe. He's had the pu pu platter of receivers for most of his career, never had a 1st tier RB (Dillon was closest) yet he always seems to make things happen. He's easily better than Marino, who never won a Super Bowl. I don't care what kind of arm Marino had, great players get it done all the way. I would have lumped Elway into the same boat until he finally got it done in the late 90's. Definitely meant Bob Griese. And I'm glad you brought up Terry Bradshaw. Because few dare put Terry Bradshaw in the ranks with Elway and Marino because he just wasn't as good at these guys regardless of his SB wins. I think getting to the SB is WAY overrated in comparing positional players because football is such a team sport. I mean, does Trent Dilfer rank above Marino? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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