All things JFK thread.

[CaseyJones7]

The History Channel had a program about the assasination a few year back explaining in detail why Oswald was the lone gunman. Now, i know some of the programs on the history channel are bs but this one was on at a decent hour and had Peter Jennings as the narrator. I bring this up because at the end of the program Jennings read a quote by a guy that IMO really sums up why some people are so convinced that Oswald didnt act alone or didnt do it at all.

Jennings, through the words of historian William Manchester, tries to explain why America cannot accept Oswald as the lone gunman. When you weigh the deaths of six million Jews against the villainous Nazis, he says, the scenarios balance out on the scale of tragedy vs. tyranny. But when Kennedy is placed on the side of right, and Oswald takes his tainted seat as the single factor in the beloved leader's fatality, the scale cannot maintain equilibrium. Oswald is too light, too inconsequential to snuff out something so promising and powerful. The legacy left behind by the events of that day in November has had one lasting impact on this tired, troubled nation.

[Dance04]

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7818497765381916701

links JFK and the bush family

[zoony]

Considering the Warren Commission whitewashed the whole thing over, what would be the point of subpoenaing it? They did their level best to give it all a nice clean wrapper, including embracing the utterly laughable "Magic Bullet" theory, what makes anyone think they would have somehow decided to embrace the truth contained in an (alleged) film? If anything they'd hide it as deep as they've hidden everything else. (the Magic Bullet... somehow this amazing unfired round fell out of the corpse and no one noticed it on the floor except a bystander.)

They were charged with presenting the American public with a digestible soft answer, not giving us the truth.

That is why there are also time limits set up on a lot of the key evidence.. so they'll all be dead by the time it comes out that they lied on a massive scale.

To me the most believable theory is that large business interests (many based in Texas and backing Lyndon Johnson) wanted JFK out of the way because he was adamant on ending our involvement in Vietnam by 1965.

The first Baby Boomers were beginning to come of age,,, millions of them all at the same time flooding into the job market.. a market that couldn't handle it. So in order to 'thin the herd" they had themselves a war. (Notice who went,, predominantly young men (7 years younger on avg than the men who fought WW2) most of lower economic background, and a whole hell of a lot of black people.)

It's no coincidence in my mind that Johnson's first official act after taking the oath of office was to repeal Kennedy's bill that would remove us by '65. His first official statement on the matter was something like "They want their war, well, now they've got it." People assumed he was talking about the enemy.

Coup D'etat. Our country has never ever been the same since.

~Bang

Right, because we all know the best way to carry out a coupd'etat is to assasinate the president during a parade in front of thousands of eyewitnesses, cameras, and even motion picture cameras

On a logical level, you believe that garbage? Or are you just having fun with it? Because I cannot think of a more confusing, illogical, cluster**** of a plan than to execute JFK in an open car during a parade. Not when I can just put some untracable poison on his meatloaf sandwich.

Seriously some of you need to take a step back and think about how preposterous you sound.

....

[zoony]

Jennings, through the words of historian William Manchester, tries to explain why America cannot accept Oswald as the lone gunman. When you weigh the deaths of six million Jews against the villainous Nazis, he says, the scenarios balance out on the scale of tragedy vs. tyranny. But when Kennedy is placed on the side of right, and Oswald takes his tainted seat as the single factor in the beloved leader's fatality, the scale cannot maintain equilibrium. Oswald is too light, too inconsequential to snuff out something so promising and powerful. The legacy left behind by the events of that day in November has had one lasting impact on this tired, troubled nation.

That is a great quote.

Oswald made 3 impossible shots on a moving target with a piece of **** rifle. He was a nobody... an insignificant player in everything he did. Yet he was able to assasinate the leader of the free world with very little training, foresight, planning, or help. It just doesn't make sense. It HAD to be something bigger... it just HAD to!

That is where all this starts. But sadly, **** happens. And on this day, it did. There was no conspiracy, and I think it is sad that so many Americans think so little of their own government as to believe it was some sort of coup, or something more sinister.

[cahones01]

Watch the History Channels special on this movie and the JFK shooting. I highly recommend it.

[Dance04]

That is where all this starts. But sadly, **** happens. And on this day, it did. There was no conspiracy, and I think it is sad that so many Americans think so little of their own government as to believe it was some sort of coup, or something more sinister.

With all due respect to your gov't zoony, but maybe there is a reason so many americans think so little of their government. It's not like the government has a clean slate

[Dance04]

Right, because we all know the best way to carry out a coupd'etat is to assasinate the president during a parade in front of thousands of eyewitnesses, cameras, and even motion picture cameras

On a logical level, you believe that garbage? Or are you just having fun with it? Because I cannot think of a more confusing, illogical, cluster**** of a plan than to execute JFK in an open car during a parade. Not when I can just put some untracable poison on his meatloaf sandwich.

Seriously some of you need to take a step back and think about how preposterous you sound.

....

It's much easier to sell it to the public that way. Seeing someones head being blown up has a more frightening affect then poisoning the guys meatloaf.

Public Perception.

[Enzo]

The History Channel had a program about the assasination a few year back explaining in detail why Oswald was the lone gunman. Now, i know some of the programs on the history channel are bs but this one was on at a decent hour and had Peter Jennings as the narrator. I bring this up because at the end of the program Jennings read a quote by a guy that IMO really sums up why some people are so convinced that Oswald didnt act alone or didnt do it at all.

Jennings, through the words of historian William Manchester, tries to explain why America cannot accept Oswald as the lone gunman. When you weigh the deaths of six million Jews against the villainous Nazis, he says, the scenarios balance out on the scale of tragedy vs. tyranny. But when Kennedy is placed on the side of right, and Oswald takes his tainted seat as the single factor in the beloved leader's fatality, the scale cannot maintain equilibrium. Oswald is too light, too inconsequential to snuff out something so promising and powerful. The legacy left behind by the events of that day in November has had one lasting impact on this tired, troubled nation.

I saw that show it was actually full of crap. One example is where that old man pulls the trigger on a rifle & works the bolt & he does it 3 times to prove it can be done in under 7 seconds with an EMPTY GUN. The problem is that there are probably only a handful of people in the world that can do it on a stationary target & it is nearly inpossible on a moving target. I know someone who was in the army during the Cuban Missle Crisis & they say they didn't know anybody who could do it. I tell you what set up a sillouette target at 100 yds & have someone you know, who is a good shot, try & hit it 3 times in under 7 seconds using a bolt action rifle (high powered rifle). After you have them try it then think about this: The shot was made by an average shot at best from a fairly steep angle ( that changes the distance) & with what most experts considered the most inaccurate rifle during WWII. Of course we could end all the debate about the JFK assination if the National Archives could locate the President's brain, no I'm not talking about Bush's brain but JFK's. Yes they lost the President's brain how convenent for the real killers. One more thing, I mentioned it in an earlier post, how come the Secret Service didn't react until after the fatal shot. Please don't say they didn't realize it was a rifle being shot, that doesn't matter. They heard the noise & in every situation the Secret Service will act to protect the President when they hear anything that sounds anywhere close to a gun or an explosion. Oh yeah tell me how come there weren't any Agents standing on the back platforms (President Kennedy's car how platform on the back of the car with handles on the trunk where Secret Service agents could stand).

[SKINS@THEGOALLINE]

Right, because we all know the best way to carry out a coupd'etat is to assasinate the president during a parade in front of thousands of eyewitnesses, cameras, and even motion picture cameras

On a logical level, you believe that garbage? Or are you just having fun with it? Because I cannot think of a more confusing, illogical, cluster**** of a plan than to execute JFK in an open car during a parade. Not when I can just put some untracable poison on his meatloaf sandwich.

Seriously some of you need to take a step back and think about how preposterous you sound.

....

Wasn't that what happened to Anwar Sadat?

[thehogs]

Wasn't that what happened to Anwar Sadat?

Indeed.....

[zoony]

It's much easier to sell it to the public that way. Seeing someones head being blown up has a more frightening affect then poisoning the guys meatloaf.

Public Perception.

Oh I see. So they wanted to "scare" the public. Is that it?

I thought it was a silent coup.

I'm confused.

...

[zoony]

I saw that show it was actually full of crap. One example is where that old man pulls the trigger on a rifle & works the bolt & he does it 3 times to prove it can be done in under 7 seconds with an EMPTY GUN. The problem is that there are probably only a handful of people in the world that can do it on a stationary target & it is nearly inpossible on a moving target.

Other than Oliver Stone, do you have a source for this? It was NOT an impossible shot. It was a difficult shot, one that you or I would have some trouble executing. But maybe not an ex-marine (sharpshooter, iirc) who was bound and determined.

And all the more reason NOT to believe the conspiracy.

I absolutely LOVE the logic. On the one hand, the conspirators are all powerful and knowing. On the other, they set up a patsy with an impossible shot.

If there are conspirators, you must think they're pretty ****ing dumb.

......

[Henry]

I pretty much completely agree with Zoony on this one.

And the movie by Oliver Stone was complete garbage.

[PleaseBlitz]

Oswald made 3 impossible shots on a moving target with a piece of **** rifle.

Totally incorrect. Oswalt was a former Marine sharpshooter, the distance to the target was 88 yards. Well within his capabilities. There is a scorecard from Oswalts Marine training in rapid fire. At 200 yards, more than twice the distance, he hits 48 out of 50 shoots on a head and shoulders sized target.

Him being a "mediocre shot" and having a bad rifle are simply Oliver Stone taking dramatic license with the facts to make his agenda more plausible.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iLRHdBalBIM

[zoony]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iLRHdBalBIM

Outstanding video. Everyone should watch.

I love the 'pristine bullet' debunking as well as the 3 shots in 7 seconds demonstration.

[Predicto]

I pretty much completely agree with Zoony on this one.

And the movie by Oliver Stone was complete garbage.

Add me to that list.

[Enzo]

Other than Oliver Stone, do you have a source for this? It was NOT an impossible shot. It was a difficult shot, one that you or I would have some trouble executing. But maybe not an ex-marine (sharpshooter, iirc) who was bound and determined.

And all the more reason NOT to believe the conspiracy.

I absolutely LOVE the logic. On the one hand, the conspirators are all powerful and knowing. On the other, they set up a patsy with an impossible shot.

If there are conspirators, you must think they're pretty ****ing dumb.

......

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it was nearly impossible & Oswald wasn't a sharpshooter despite what Peter Jennings showed you. You have realize that show wasn't meant to give a balanced view of the situation it was set up to disprove the conspiracy theories. I'm not saying it was a conspiracy, I'm just saying that too many things don't add up. Oswald, who was an average shot according to the marines he serviced with, did something that would be very hard to do with a modern custom made bolt action sniper rifle with what experts comsidered the most inaccurate rifle used during World War II. Like I said If the National Archives can find President Kennedy's brain, they could study it & tell everybody where the shot came from. Of course if they did find out the fatal shot came from behind there would still be people who didn't believe it. I never said that the conspirators were all powerful & knowing, they didn't have to be that all they had to be was connected. No, I have never seen that movie, JFK, by Oliver Stone for one simple reason so people can't give me that you saw that in that movie statement. Nobody has explained to me why the Secret Service didn't react until after the 3rd or 4th fatal shot or why there weren't any agents riding on the back of the car.

[PleaseBlitz]

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it was nearly impossible & Oswald wasn't a sharpshooter despite what Peter Jennings showed you. You have realize that show wasn't meant to give a balanced view of the situation it was set up to disprove the conspiracy theories. I'm not saying it was a conspiracy, I'm just saying that too many things don't add up. Oswald, who was an average shot according to the marines he serviced with, did something that would be very hard to do with a modern custom made bolt action sniper rifle with what experts comsidered the most inaccurate rifle used during World War II. Like I said If the National Archives can find President Kennedy's brain, they could study it & tell everybody where the shot came from. Of course if they did find out the fatal shot came from behind there would still be people who didn't believe it. I never said that the conspirators were all powerful & knowing, they didn't have to be that all they had to be was connected. No, I have never seen that movie, JFK, by Oliver Stone for one simple reason so people can't give me that you saw that in that movie statement. Nobody has explained to me why the Secret Service didn't react until after the 3rd or 4th fatal shot or why there weren't any agents riding on the back of the car.

I dont get it. Who said Oswalt was an average shot? Stone made that up for his movie along with several other assertions. Oswalt was an outstanding shot, and the shots he made were not all that difficult for him.

As for why there were no SS in the back of the car, i have no idea. But i know several SS agents, and if you think any of them would be "in on it" i have a very hard time believing that.

[Predicto]

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it was nearly impossible & Oswald wasn't a sharpshooter despite what Peter Jennings showed you. You have realize that show wasn't meant to give a balanced view of the situation it was set up to disprove the conspiracy theories. I'm not saying it was a conspiracy, I'm just saying that too many things don't add up. Oswald, who was an average shot according to the marines he serviced with, did something that would be very hard to do with a modern custom made bolt action sniper rifle with what experts comsidered the most inaccurate rifle used during World War II. Like I said If the National Archives can find President Kennedy's brain, they could study it & tell everybody where the shot came from. Of course if they did find out the fatal shot came from behind there would still be people who didn't believe it. I never said that the conspirators were all powerful & knowing, they didn't have to be that all they had to be was connected. No, I have never seen that movie, JFK, by Oliver Stone for one simple reason so people can't give me that you saw that in that movie statement. Nobody has explained to me why the Secret Service didn't react until after the 3rd or 4th fatal shot or why there weren't any agents riding on the back of the car.

The reason that the Secret Service wasn't riding on the car was because Kennedy hadn't been assassinated yet. We hadn't had a presidential assassination since the 19th Century. When Kennedy died, the Secret Service changed a lot of their procedures.

Second, you are correct that it was a very difficult shot. But not undoable - Oswald was good and he was lucky and he hit the target. He might have missed on some other day.

You can't use hindsight for something like this. Franco Harris's immaculate reception was a very difficult play and you couldn't even have scripted it, but it still happened. Bad things happen.

[MonkeySkin]

The biggest thing that stands out to me is when the agent who would normally be protecting his car was called off by someone in their ear piece.

I think this is it, but I can't tell here at work.

But the agent is following JFK's car, then was called off and he threw his arms up in the air like what the heck is going on here.

Then you have the "3 Tramps" look them up.

Oswald was a patsy.

[PCS]

Gotta walk the place some time. It can give one a different perspective.

[Enzo]

I dont get it. Who said Oswalt was an average shot? Stone made that up for his movie along with several other assertions. Oswalt was an outstanding shot, and the shots he made were not all that difficult for him.

As for why there were no SS in the back of the car, i have no idea. But i know several SS agents, and if you think any of them would be "in on it" i have a very hard time believing that.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/06/29/italian_experts_test_jfk_assassination_gun/1113/

TERNI, Italy, June 29 (UPI) -- Italian weapons experts say tests on the type of rifle used to kill U.S. President John F. Kennedy show assassin Lee Harvey Oswald could not have acted alone.

The Warren Commission report concluded that Oswald fired three shots with a Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle in 7 seconds to kill Kennedy in Dallas in 1963. However, tests supervised by the Italian Army showed it would take 19 seconds to get off three shots with that type of gun, the Italian news agency ANSA reported.

The tests were done in a former Carcano factory in Terni.

In one test, a bullet was fired through two large pieces of meat to simulate the assumed path of a shot that the Warren Commission concluded struck Texas Gov. John Connally after passing through Kennedy's body. In the test, the bullet ended deformed, while the bullet in the Kennedy assassination remained intact.

Conspiracy theories about the assassination have been circulating for more than four decades.

[Enzo]

Anybody who thinks that JFK was shot from behind please take a look at his autopsy photos. The doctors who operated on Kennedy when he arrived at the hospital said that there was a large exit wound in the back of the head. Please don't say I got this from that Oliver Stone movie because I've never seen it.