The Saunders Factor: What really happened, why Gibbs left, why Williams isn't hired

[Peregrine]

So, you write a big piece of pure speculation(and poor speculation at that, since when is Snyder shy about firing someone), and anyone who disagrees with it based on reality should "keep one thumb in your ass and the other in your mouth"?

I greatly respect your opinion now...Radical conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen.

[skinfan2k]

watch saunders go back to a powder-puff division like the afc west again.

[Skinem]

I think it's pretty much common knowledge that Snyder did not interfere with Joe Gibbs and his decisions. I for one take coach Gibbs at his word that an ill grandchild puts things in perspective for him and he wanted to be with family at this point in his life, he is not a spring chicken anymore and anyone that did not understand the stress of this past season simply has no clue. JC is the teams future and JG knew that, TC says it takes a couple of years just to learn AL Saunders system and that is the reason I believe it was a bad hiring since we were not completely rebuilding. Gregg Williams good DC, HC I just don't think so, not sure about Blanche either, but I'm willing to wait and see. I love the Zorn move but, I find it hard to believe that the coordinators would be selected without knowing who the HC already will be and that he knows who they would be, otherwise it would be a forced family and I can't see that. Many things are going on in the dark and as seen here and now they are starting to come to light. All the outright speeches from players about keeping this coach or that one, well lets see about that now that some new ones have been selected and the new ones now determine if you stay or go.

[Sarge]

Not out of the realm of possibility.

Snyder is really turning out to be an SOB.

He's been an SOB since the day he bought the team

My Mom used to work for the Redskins. She was JKC's personal secretary. When DanAngelos Snyder bought the team, he sent letters to everyone at Redskins Park that essentially said, "Relax, your job is safe"

Mom still has hers

The day the deal was complete, he came ot Redskins Park. He walked right past everyone without so much as a "**** you". When he was going ot his office, he passed my Mom and another employee, to which he said "Get me a Coke". NEver said another thing

The next day, around lunch, my Mom and the other person that worked in that office were told by the danny, "You're out. You have until 5 o'clock to pack your stuff"

They were escorted out the front door by security

Dickweed. Complete Dickweed

[Blondie]

Where is Thumbelina when you need her.

After reading all this I do believe she has HER thumbs somewhere up ASF.

Thanks, Om!

Here's my feeling. When a short, billionaire prick continues to f*ck your wife, it's OK to call him a short, billionaire prick ... and after years of this, it's OK to hate him.

If he is still ****ing your wife.........SHE must enjoy it.

Maybe you should think about hating her.

[IHOPSkins]

....And this is why we saw four interviews with Williams, and such obvious confusion on the part of Snyder and Cerrato in the past two weeks.....

On top of possible $$$$$/Control issues

I would agree that these interviews had more to it than a HC position.....

If GW isn't the HC, who should be?

What coaches should stay?

[Shadowplay]

Always enjoy reading your posts, ASF, whether I agree with them or not. In either case, I totally agree with your sig.

[ManleyMann7271]

Definitely some great theories in there. The only thing I disagree with is the statement that Todd Collins should have started the season, he would have fallen apart just like he did at Seattle. I lost all respect for him when I saw his two "attempted" touchdown saving tackles after his two interceptions. Jason Campbell would have at least tried to tackle those guys.

[fansince62]

I could actually see much of this happening. While I don't think Gibbs resigned because he didn't want to fire Saunders, I think the part about Williams being asked to do it and refusing could be true. In fact, if that is the case, then maybe we wouldn't have to worry about losing Gregg as our DC, unless he was really turned off by the interviews. It's sad to say, but given this mess, I think we'd be extremely lucky to hire a coach like Jim Fassel. Because no other coach with a resume like his, or even a young up and comer is going to put up with this ****. If this is the case, I don't want Gregg Williams as head coach because his reputation would be tarnished working for the Danny.

I don't know about that...Cincy was able to hire Lewis and the ownership of that team was a running joke.......

[fansince62]

On top of possible $$$$$/Control issues

I would agree that these interviews had more to it than a HC position.....

If GW isn't the HC, who should be?

What coaches should stay?

I'm willing to bet it was about control from the git go...and DS/VC knew well before the "negotiations" started exactly what Williams's going in position was going to be. The writing was on the wall the nanosecond VC was ramped up to lord & master of all personnel issues.

[LUVTHEHOGS_83]

Sounds like pure speculation IMO. But, interesting reading.

[D'Pablo]

I think you're right, except for the problems Kleese brought forth.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

After reading all this I do believe she has HER thumbs somewhere up ASF.

If he is still ****ing your wife.........SHE must enjoy it.

Good stuff, Blondie.

Your always charming interest in my posts reminds me: How to Tell If You're a bit of a Slapper

[akorn22]

Personally I think gibbs would have no problem firing sanders and taking the offense back over. I do beleive that Gibbs firing himself as OC was BS, which is why i think he'd have no problem firing saunders. I also beleive that Gibbs retired on his own because he's old and he barely rested all season. He endured the loss of a player and a season that boredered on total heartbreak. He also described the buffalo game as a carrer low point. Gibbs just took the respect he gained from making the playoffs and retired on that

[panel]

I think Gibbs gave Dan Snyder exactly the response he deserved, at season's end. "You know what, Dan? I've decided that I'm not going to do your dirty work. You want to fire Al Saunders? Do it youself.

I am sure that Dan is not the type that is too scared to fire someone. I get the opposite impression, that he enjoys firing people.

[SkinsFTW]

I am sure that Dan is not the type that is too scared to fire someone. I get the opposite impression, that he enjoys firing people.

Maybe, but judging by the latest events it seems that he'd rather just disrespect/ignore them until the go away on their own.

[Bryan81]

Well I hope al lthe fans calling for Joe Gibbs to be fired are happy. Your voice has been heard. Now look at the mess we are in.

[Bishop Hammer]

Great Thread , but i do think your hatred for Danny Boy fuels this speculation. Its very well thought out though, a lot of it makes a lot of sense to me

IAWTP. :cry:

[Doctor ToughLove]

Funny, I have also heard the exact opposite speculated...that Williams blamed Saunders for his #31 defense in 2006 and wanted to boot Al Saunders. So switch thumbs with that guy.

[Roborob132]

I personally believe that gibbs left because he just didnt have it in the tank to Coach anymore. Meaning, Snyder would not allow him to do what he wanted. I see some points here that hit right on, Gibbs needed some help with Offense, and I to never really thought saunders was the answer but was optimistic as his KC record was very good. I think gibbs was tired of being told how to coach in terms of hiring and firing and player personnel. I have posted before that UNTIL SNYDER GETS HIS HAND OFF EVERYONE below the HC we will not be a winning franchise..

Good post

[SnyderHasToGo]

Great read, very possible. Thanks.

[hailtotheskins69]

Very interesting take on this situation. It could be totally true. I'm not sure Snyder would do that to Gibbs, but I could see him saying that to Gregg Williams. Very interesing indeed, thanks for the post. Great read.

[Dccat]

What follows is speculation and opinion. If you have nothing better to add to this thread than to observe my lack of proof, keep one thumb in your ass and the other in your mouth.

For the rest of you, this is my short history of what really happened in the last two years with the Redskins.

Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato now have exactly the situation they deserve. They are the laughingstock of the league, and their reputation is earned.

It's all based on YOUR beliefs,and other than case 1 sounds like you might have something.

[jimster]

I don't know I always believed that Joe Gibbs wanted to relunquish himself from the offensive duties because he was critical of himself.

Let's see..the media was all over him saying his offense was old and no longer effective. Brunell was the real problem but JG didn't want to believe it was Brunell's fault. JG in the off season blamed himself and decided it was best for the team to have an OC. but in the end it was hard to give total control to Saunders as much as Williams and it took a little longer than thought.

Now, Williams had total control over every decision defensively, JG gave him that authority and that was obvious.

It seemed to me Snyder stayed out completely except for contract negotiations but was in every conversation and had some input. But still JG had absolute final decision making authority and reluinquished it only to Williams for defense. How can anyone believe otherwise?

Does anyone think that maybe, just maybe....Williams wants the same thing as Gibbs had? Why wouldn't he want that? every HC wants to pick the groceries. but you know what? It doesn't work. In all franchise models the HC/GM model does not work..period! It does not work because the HC can't believe that the GM made a bad pick, because he is the GM. Gibbs had that problem with Brunell and a few others. When the HC is not the GM he plays whoever he needs to win, period. He could care less if the GM payed to much for this FA or that FA unless of course he is the GM. In the end I think JG gave a lot of player picking authority to Vinnie and it turned out pretty good this season which is what Snyder meant by "if it ain't broke don't fix it."

Maybe Williams is demanding total authority. Maybe That also could explain why Vinnie was promoted to sqaush that idea. If word leaked out That GW wanted total control and was denied it, then the media jumps on Snyder when that is truly not the case. It seems to me the problem might be final absolute authority. Snyder says Vinnie..Williams says himself.

Gibbs has praised Vinnie for roster depth..I will believe him...

Gibbs has praised the owner for giving him everything he could ask for to succeed...I choose to believe him because it makes sense.

Gibbs is leaving because he never looked like he was having fun and the toll it was taking, not because of anything Snyder did.

Williams wants complete control like JG had and there in lies the real problem I think.

excellent post. - This is what I believe is either close to or exactly what happened. I think Snyder began feeling uneasy once he started talking to Williams about the job. - I could see Snyder having those flashbacks of Marty's my-way-or-the-highway mentality that alienated so many of the players.

[turbodiesel#44]

I don't know I always believed that Joe Gibbs wanted to relunquish himself from the offensive duties because he was critical of himself.

Let's see..the media was all over him saying his offense was old and no longer effective. Brunell was the real problem but JG didn't want to believe it was Brunell's fault. JG in the off season blamed himself and decided it was best for the team to have an OC. but in the end it was hard to give total control to Saunders as much as Williams and it took a little longer than thought.

Now, Williams had total control over every decision defensively, JG gave him that authority and that was obvious.

It seemed to me Snyder stayed out completely except for contract negotiations but was in every conversation and had some input. But still JG had absolute final decision making authority and reluinquished it only to Williams for defense. How can anyone believe otherwise?

Does anyone think that maybe, just maybe....Williams wants the same thing as Gibbs had? Why wouldn't he want that? every HC wants to pick the groceries. but you know what? It doesn't work. In all franchise models the HC/GM model does not work..period! It does not work because the HC can't believe that the GM made a bad pick, because he is the GM. Gibbs had that problem with Brunell and a few others. When the HC is not the GM he plays whoever he needs to win, period. He could care less if the GM payed to much for this FA or that FA unless of course he is the GM. In the end I think JG gave a lot of player picking authority to Vinnie and it turned out pretty good this season which is what Snyder meant by "if it ain't broke don't fix it."

Maybe Williams is demanding total authority. Maybe That also could explain why Vinnie was promoted to sqaush that idea. If word leaked out That GW wanted total control and was denied it, then the media jumps on Snyder when that is truly not the case. It seems to me the problem might be final absolute authority. Snyder says Vinnie..Williams says himself.

Gibbs has praised Vinnie for roster depth..I will believe him...

Gibbs has praised the owner for giving him everything he could ask for to succeed...I choose to believe him because it makes sense.

Gibbs is leaving because he never looked like he was having fun and the toll it was taking, not because of anything Snyder did.

Williams wants complete control like JG had and there in lies the real problem I think.

Nice post. I agree 100%.