The Saunders Factor: What really happened, why Gibbs left, why Williams isn't hired

[DB44]

keep one thumb in your ass and the other in your mouth.

:laugh: :notworthy :laugh: Thanks, I needed a good laugh today.

Whether your speculation is right or not, who knows. Interesting read none the less.

Again thanks for the laugh.

[robearlyii]

Atlanta Skins Fan is either very smart or very creative, not sure which one. In any case, that was a very thought provoking write up, and I'm inclined to believe that at least some of it is true.

[wskin44]

But then, I tend to shoot from the lip.

When were you going to get that fixed?

:laugh:

[Bossman_SKins]

quite the imagination

[jrockster21]

Good question.

Off the top of my head, I'd probably call it something like ... "Snyder coming to a decision, based on a thousand-fold more relevant information than all but 2-3 people on the planet have had access to over the past 4 years, that the real and/or perceived shortcomings Gregg Williams brings to the table as a potential head coach in the end outweighed the real or perceived benefits of any "continuity" he might bring. Particularly in light of the fact said "continuity" is in itself an impossible concept to ascribe objective value to, given there are so many other factors we also know little about at the moment, such as what happens with Saunders assuming he'd even consider staying on, what the other Gibbs guys like Breaux, Bugel, Byner, etc., want to do, how GW's very different personality would mesh with the remaining coaches and all those players who have NOT necessarily openly backed GW, etc., etc., etc."

But then, I tend to shoot from the lip.

Always the optimist!

EDIT: Even viewed with the rosy-colored glasses you have on, the situation is still that everything Gibbs has built will be dismantled. A new head coach and coordinators means new staff (especially if reports of our current staff being disgruntled are true - they are from a reputable source); new staff and coaches means new players, and undoubtedly saying goodbye to several hand-picked Gibbs players.

All-in-all, we are probably looking at a 2008 product that will differ greatly from what was on the field in 2007. If that is the case - what was the point of bringing Gibbs back? :whoknows:

[33]

Always the optimist!

EDIT: Even viewed with the rosy-colored glasses you have on, the situation is still that everything Gibbs has built will be dismantled. A new head coach and coordinators means new staff (especially if reports of our current staff being disgruntled are true - they are from a reputable source); new staff and coaches means new players, and undoubtedly saying goodbye to several hand-picked Gibbs players.

All-in-all, we are probably looking at a 2008 product that will differ greatly from what was on the field in 2007. If that is the case - what was the point of bringing Gibbs back? :whoknows:

I know from reading your posts that you're smart enough to not actually believe that a new coaching staff is absolute indication of huge player turnover. Because Wade Phillips and Mike Tomlin might like to talk to you in that case. Scott Linehan from the year before as well. With us, that could be true, it seems to be the pattern, but it's certainly not always the case in the NFL that new coach means brand new players.

More than anything an entirely new system means new players as Marty likes guys that are different athletes than Norv's and SS wanted to run and gun as opposed to grind it like Marty and JJG needs an H-Back and high character guys.

[BG]

I totally agree with ASF. I think that Gibbs and Snyder think that whoever follows Gibbs as HC, will ultimately be at the behest of Gibbs/Cerrato/Snyder's wishes. Fire this guy, cut this player.

I think, and hope, that Gregg stood up, similar to Marty and said that won't fly. There has to be input and cohesion between the HC's philosophies and the front office. Seems that Snyder doesn't think so. HC should take orders and make the players fly on the field. Furthermore, I think Snyder sees this all as a failed experiment and hopes to cut MANY players.

At this point, the situation looks bleak unless we con somehow retain Gregg with Saunders as coach.

[turbodiesel#44]

The only reason I can see for the delay in this process is that Danny is genuinely interested in one of the Pats or Giants Staff. I know we are not allowed to contact them directly, but does someone know if it is kosher to contact someones agent to gauge possible interest?

I can't believe that a saavy billionaire businessman like DS was caught totally unprepared for the possibility of Joe quitting. The writing was on the wall. Surely there are non-public factors at work behind the scenes. Hate him or not, Dan made his money, he didn't inherit it. He's not an idiot.

But I think this delay does not bode well for GW as HC.

[Om]

Always the optimist!

EDIT: Even viewed with the rosy-colored glasses you have on .... yada yada yada.

Brother, I defy you to point to any one thing in that post you think you could make a logical case for being either "optimistic" OR "pessimistic." That post was very intentionally neutral, which was the whole point. It seems you may have missed it.

If you want to state your own opinions on Dan, please do. Just please don't capriciously misinterpret mine to use as a springboard.

[jrockster21]

Brother, I defy you to point to any one thing in that post you think you could make a logical case for being either "optimistic" OR "pessimistic." That post was very intentionally neutral, which was the whole point. It seems you may have missed it.

If you want to state your own opinions on Dan, please do. Just please don't capriciously misinterpret mine to use as a springboard.

Optimism that Snyder was actually going through a thought-out process, is what I meant.

EDIT: All of his actions so far seem to indicate to me that he hasn't put much thought into this search at all. Could that be because Gibbs left him in a lurch? Maybe...but you'd still think someone with his experience in business would be prepared for this.

[CHUBAKAH]

Optimism that Snyder was actually going through a thought-out process, is what I meant.

EDIT: All of his actions so far seem to indicate to me that he hasn't put much thought into this search at all. Could that be because Gibbs left him in a lurch? Maybe...but you'd still think someone with his experience in business would be prepared for this.

Do you really think the process is that easy, or cut and dry as you so make it seem by what you post?

Seriously?

[laythalumber2130]

Great Thread , but i do think your hatred for Danny Boy fuels this speculation. Its very well thought out though, a lot of it makes a lot of sense to me

[33]

EDIT: All of his actions so far seem to indicate to me that he hasn't put much thought into this search at all. Could that be because Gibbs left him in a lurch? Maybe...but you'd still think someone with his experience in business would be prepared for this.

You bring up a good point, but it was reported at some point that a good friend of Snyder's had asked him what he would do if Gibbs declined the contract extension he was planning to offer him. He stated that Snyder answered by saying that he had no plan B.

So we know that there was never a plan B. Whether the current process has been "thought out" is clearly another matter.

[Forever21]

gibberish. Oh right...sorry...*slowly inserts thumbs in requested places*

[jrockster21]

Do you really think the process is that easy, or cut and dry as you so make it seem by what you post?

Seriously?

Is it cut and dry to preach continuity, and then leave your current coaches completely in the dark for over a week?

Of course there is no 'blueprint' for hiring coaches, however a Hall of Famer left us with a pretty good blueprint for future success, IMO, and Snyder has used it for toilet paper.

[Fetus]

i agree with a lot

minus the Collins being the answer

but thats just me

i like JC(i just think he needs time)

[jimster]

Do you really think the process is that easy, or cut and dry as you so make it seem by what you post?

Seriously?

Exactly. People on the outside who don't have a clue of what's going on find it easy to call every decision that needs to be made "easy".

The whole, "Well why don't they just hire...?" - Well it may not be that easy.

A great portion of Redskins nation decided a long time ago that they don't like Snyder, so therefor everything he does is wrong, and anything that goes right he had nothing to do with. - This opinion from the OP sounds like a "what's the worst possible scenario that I can think of, OK that's what I think happened."

How does anyone know that the reason Williams isn't being hired is Williams? Maybe it's been Williams that wants to change everything and Snyder doesn't feel comfortable with it, so he keeps looking elsewhere? That could explain why he's had several interviews with Williams.

[Redskins4ever]

I agree wholeheartedly that it was a wrong choice by Gibbs to hire Saunders given what the team accomplished n 2005. We were a very good offensive squad and 2006 may have turned out differently had Gibbs called the plays from his own playbook and directed the offense himself. That way, Mark Brunell might not have struggled in 2006 and Jason Campbell would have stepped into a situation with having played in consecutive offenses in 2005 and 2006 instead of 2006 and 2007 with Saunders.

I can also see a power struggle between Dan Snyder and Greg Williams. It doesnt make sense though because the offensive was getting better. Look at the game in Dallas. The four game losing streak had everything to do with the both sides of the ball, not just the offense. Saunders system was working but the players weren't excuting. There's no way the team should have lost second Philly game, the first Dallas game, or the Buffalo game. That didn't have nothing at all to do with Saunders.

Greg Williams wants to be the captain of his own ship as he should be. But with Snyder undermining him like he did with Norv and Spurrier, all it shows is that he hasn't learned anything and he still has his dysfunctional, meddlesome ways about him.

[jrockster21]

Exactly. People on the outside who don't have a clue of what's going on find it easy to call every decision that needs to be made "easy"

We have a scout, who talks to other scouts and NFL personnel, as well as Redskins personnel, who is telling us that everyone pretty much is at the consensus that Snyder is mucking the search all up.

[bulldog]

There is one kernel here I earnestly believe, and that is Gregg Williams like Bill Parcells is a 'straight shooter' and THAT quality scares the hell out of Cerrato and Snyder, who probably feel as if they won't be able to control things once GW is installed as the HC and he will go over their head to the media and fans if he feels he was wronged.

[jimster]

We have a scout, who talks to other scouts and NFL personnel, as well as Redskins personnel, who is telling us that everyone pretty much is at the consensus that Snyder is mucking the search all up.

but do these people know why there's a hold up? Maybe Williams wants drastic changes that the FO doesn't feel comfortable with?

[jrockster21]

but do these people know why there's a hold up? Maybe Williams wants drastic changes that the FO doesn't feel comfortable with?

I guess...but it looks like we're having a drastic shake-up of the offense already. And defensively, since Gregg was behind picking most of those players, he most likely wouldn't do too much shaking. :2cents:

[jrockster21]

You bring up a good point, but it was reported at some point that a good friend of Snyder's had asked him what he would do if Gibbs declined the contract extension he was planning to offer him. He stated that Snyder answered by saying that he had no plan B.

So we know that there was never a plan B. Whether the current process has been "thought out" is clearly another matter.

If there was no plan B, it seems like they should have sat down for a day or two, hell even a week, and hashed out a plan of attack. Not this piecemeal crap they got going on now.

[TheItalianStallion]

Why do I keep hearing that the offense was struggling until Collins came in? The offense was clicking against the Jets (400+ yards), the Eagles (the only reason why we didn't score more was because our D couldn't get off the field), the Cowboys (400+ yards), TB (400+ yards, 300+ yards through the air against the #1 pass D in the league). JC had 150+ passing yards at halftime against Bufalo, the only reason why he didn't continue to tear it up was because of ATROCIOUS Oline play. Same with the first half against Chicago, putrid Oline play, no holes for CP, no time for JC. The Oline, for whatever reason, played a lot better when Collins came in. Same thing in the meadowlands; no sacks from the #1 pass rush n the league. No pressure from Minny, either.

The reason for the improved offensive performance during the 4-game-winning-streak was the Oline, not the QB change. Saunders' system takes around a year for people to start to get it. This was delayed due to a QB change after 9 games in 2006. Around the 9 game mark in 2007, the O was starting to come together (Philly).

[SkinsFTW]

Here's my problem with this.

If Snyder is so interested in Continuity, if Snyder has always really wanted to keep this team going in the direction that Gibbs has started, after Gibbs retires, when we know that Gibbs choice to replace him has to be Williams, or possibly (but I doubt it) Saunders, then why wasn't HIS guy, Snyder's guy, on the staff this year, or the past couple years, for the transition? If he likes Fassel, well he's been sitting at home.

See, I really don't believe there is a real plan for continuity. It's just always going to be a "Madden" deal around here where we go out and make 50 different random changes to the team every year because a football fan is the owner of the team. The dude OWNS his own Madden franchise!