Sekhmet187 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Wow, people are complaining and whining about Snyder needing patience yet no one on this board can wait another week or two to find a coach? Yeah, I'm sure Snyder is the only one who needs to learn patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 This has nothing to do with the coaching search, but has everything to do with the fact that Dan Snyder can be an SOB, but he isn't all the time as he has done some very nice things in the past. My father is a doctor and has a friend that is an OBGYN. Dan Snyder's wife was having a baby and was deathly ill. She came into the office and the doctor that she normally went to was out of the country. My father's friend was on call. Dan said, if you save my wife I will donate $100,000 to the hospital. That is all well and good, but he saved her life and never saw the donation. Anyway, Dan uses influence, but rarely follows through. For this team to be successful year in and year out he needs to step back from the football operations and let a real GM (not a raquetball player) stablelize the front office operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 The Tom Cruise was funny Titaw. But don't you think that Gibbs (being the devout Christian that he is) felt a little uneasy about TC being so important that he gets to stand in the owner's box in the playoffs? I could see a home game. I wouldn't be surprised if TC does have more influence than we want to believe on snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefhogskin48 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I choose scenario #4. That is by far the most likely. I don't think #1 is true. Saunders was a Gibbs guy through and through, and I don't believe Snyder pushed Gibbs to hire him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Thanks, Om! Here's my feeling. When a short, billionaire prick continues to f*ck your wife, it's OK to call him a short, billionaire prick ... and after years of this, it's OK to hate him. You can hate him all you want. Particularly if he's boinking your wife. That said, what you cannot do is continue to willingly flaunt the rules about circumventing the profanity filter. It ain't like you're a noob. You know the lay (heh) of the land. See you in a day, which is the current temp ban length for that particular offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 You're apparently forgetting Bill Musgrave who was a younger assistant brought in to install the Shotgun and discuss the WCO and was fired or let go the following year. Considering how the general feeling is that Snyder was desperate to keep Gibbs (no reason not to believe this) it's hard to imagine he would put such ultimatum's on him in a time of desperation. It was reported during the season that if the Skins didn't finish well that Gibbs may fire Saunders. Well, we finished well but that doesn't change that there were second guesses about Saunders within the building. Snyder is not coming off as such a great guy these days, but people refuse to believe that maybe Gibbs doesn't agree with everything they do football-wise so the problem must be Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsman4u Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I set forth this communiqué with considerable trepidation. Williams and Cerrato never coalesced. That alone is enough not to get you hired? People may say:”but friction is a good thing and a yes man is not what we need in the office”, and that maybe true. You need some one that is going to stir it up and generate thought provoking discussions. Friction can generate good ideas and other means to an achievable end. They want continuity and I ask toward what? Losing! But Cerrato has been with Snyder since 1999. I think he was fired in 2002 and soon returned like in 2003. So Cerrato is Snyder’s right hand man. Moments in time can change a lot of things and we’ve had our moments. And if you generate a decision matrix and say less is better then you would find that the below far outweighs those top 10 defenses that Williams put up while here: Yep, Torrence running out of bounds while on the punting team only to come back in and be the first to touch the ball. Nullifying, what would have been a 15yd punt return by Seattle. So Seattle makes us kick it again and they return it 40+ yds all the way across our 40 yd line that was huge. You say Williams doesn't coach special teams? DBs don't do stuff like that at Spingarn H.S. down on Benning Road , N.E., D.C. Come on now. Come on now admit Williams’ analyses during game prep or lack there of during-game decisions led to a lot of B.S. and losses. The mantra defense wins championships, well this is why I’ll pin our last 4 yrs solely on the defense; we didn’t win any! And Snyder is probably thinking about a whole bunch of other stuff, too. Like that 4 receivers 1 back set they, Seattle, showed us only to run a draw that was wide open and resulted in a TD. That’s why Holmgren is the master in the passing game, because he takes “D” CORDs like Williams and runs circles around him. Yes normally a formation like that points to a pass but, to run a draw out of it is the oldest trick in the book. We don't coach situations here at Redskin Park. Like lining Plex up on #22, knowing that he’s been weak in one on one coverage since he left Auburn and walla…we’re burned again. Snyder is also thinking about a whole lot of other stuff too. Like when Jerry Porter smoked us for a TD in the second half after Oakland went in at half time, made an in-game adjustment and killed the Tampa 2 Williams was running. Yes Jerry Porter is from Coolidge H.S. That would be up in N.W., D.C. How bout the time when LT ran the winning score in when San Diego came to town. Who didn’t know LT was going to get the ball. Okay Ryan Clark got ran over but why was he even in the secondary because every body else was ran over too. Make someone else beat you when you have a T.O or LT on the field. There was no situational awareness (S/A) on that play either; or how about when T.O. smoked us for two or was it 3 TDs in Dallas-this year. And oh by-the-way Seattle in 0-6 ran the same concepts in 08 against us. No difference #24 (Redskins) was getting smoked and no hamstring excuses this year. Then #52 had problems with the Ravens TE back in the summer during a scrimmage and what did Green Bay do? They smoked #52 with their TE on a skinny post, resulting in a TD at Greenbay this year. And don't talk about when Philly came to town. Yep my favorite of all time SEAN TAYLOR (still loving and missing you Sean, yes sir, Sean, Sean Taylor yes sir!) goes down and that position on the field automatically becomes a known area of interest (KAI). And "D" or DB coach should start countering the possibilities and schemes that Philly may attack that area with. Westbrook, who's known for being a passing back with an emphasis on swing routes and passes out in the flat, so what does Philly do they wait, and wait, and wait to the right moment and catch us with a middle screen. And that's wide open with #30 trailing. They (Redskin Coaches) say we don’t adjust our personnel packages and game plan off of a 1st teamer going down. I say B.S. because Philly did and the opponent does-especially when you have a Sean Taylor vacates an area of the field, due to injury. That’s huge and Philly went right at it. You know Philly beat Dallas in Dallas and you start adding all those nuances up and little things and we’re division champs with home field. So yeah Snyder is probably pissed! And it’s probably a lot worse when you start adding the behind the scene activities, stuff that we Extremer’s don’t see. It’s probably a lot worse. Snyder probably got so much stuff on the reason why not to hire Coach Williams he just stopped interviewing him after five times or however many. And you know every interview probably just resurfaced a whole bunch of other sh%$ too. The “D” CORD owns the “D” that’s all the position coaches and everything! "D" CORD you create the friction, thought provoking discussions and brain storm and war game, amongst your assistants how you prep for an opponent; it's no one elses "D" but yours. So don't talk to me about continuity because what we need is not what we had. You mean to tell me we called back-to-back time outs to freeze a kicker and nobody knew it was wrong, not even Coach Williams? They sat right up there and watched Coach Gibbs call it. What's analytical or forward thinking about that? Coach Smith should know every nuance that goes into special teams especially the course of action and how to off set or shift momentum in the kicking game. Back to back time out is not one of them (sentence fragment). I don't think we work hard enough to go to Super Bowls. And you know what all that **** we did to Ryan Clark, Antonio Pierce and LaVar Arrington oh it comes back and don't even talk about Pierce, because we can't! He’s in the Super Bowl. And even Gary Clark can't change the above or Snyders mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I think the hiring of Saunders was the first step in Gibbs' eventual retirement. I do believe Gibbs was going to fulfill his 5 year contract, and I do take him at his word that the trying season, Sean Taylor's death, and Gibbs' grandson's leukemia basically made him decide to choose his family over football. He said it himself, that he no longer felt he could give 100%. I take Gibbs at his word. Each season under Gibbs, whatever problems existed in the season, he moved to correct them the following offseason. After '04 there were struggles at QB, and since Gibbs wasn't sold on Ramsey, he drafted JC. After '05, WR was an issue, because there were no other targets besides Moss and Cooley. The offense performed better in '05, but still struggled at times. IMO, Gibbs saw that while he could put up a succesful offense (2 players, CP and Moss, broke franchise records in '05), he also saw that the offense needed to be updated, modernized. I believe this is also why Saunders was brought in. I disagree strongly with the over-exaggerated assertion Saunders wouldn't want JC in a million years. There was an article a few weeks ago where Saunders said the team was still JCs. And while it was great what Collins did for us this season, anyone who thinks he is capable of playing a FULL NFL season is kidding themselves and/or refusing to admit this because of their unsubstantiated Campbell hate. And ASF, your opinion would be much better served, and would carry better consideration, if you could somehow manage not to insult people when expressing it. If you have to rely on name-calling then your opinion looks more like bias than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtjameson Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I think you're on the money. The only reason GW wouldn't get the job would be if he disagreed with Snyder. Now Snyder is scrambling to find and alternative and is probably beginning to panic at the fan reaction and probable lack of interest from solid candidates. Who would want to work under these conditions. My predication is that he'll have no choice but to turn back to Greg Williams to try and salvage this disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 This is a very plausible theory. And backed up by the fact that snyder is so intent on blowing up the foundation that Gibbs has established. I believe you're right. That snyder was putting pressure on Gibbs and he had enough. Why else quit when the momentum was so high and the future looked so bright? I think this may be where we have a disconnect, brother. Y Your definition of "fact" and mine differ slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Edds Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Wow, people are complaining and whining about Snyder needing patience yet no one on this board can wait another week or two to find a coach? Yeah, I'm sure Snyder is the only one who needs to learn patience. I am surprised so many people think this is actually "patience" Dan Snyder is displaying. IMO, "patience" in looking for an outside coach while you lose your entire staff and have no apparent viable replacements ... is more of what i would call "stalling". IMO of this specific situation, "patience" is swiftly making a decision to keep things as smooth as possible and in place during the transition. Patience is believing that the current staff, players and coaches, that Gibbs built can compete for a SB and are also better than all the other options available. I guess we all might understand these terms to be completely different from one another. I'm not saying either is right or wrong. Just that my impression of those terms/ideas are completely different than some. :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I don't know I always believed that Joe Gibbs wanted to relunquish himself from the offensive duties because he was critical of himself. Let's see..the media was all over him saying his offense was old and no longer effective. Brunell was the real problem but JG didn't want to believe it was Brunell's fault. JG in the off season blamed himself and decided it was best for the team to have an OC. but in the end it was hard to give total control to Saunders as much as Williams and it took a little longer than thought. Now, Williams had total control over every decision defensively, JG gave him that authority and that was obvious. It seemed to me Snyder stayed out completely except for contract negotiations but was in every conversation and had some input. But still JG had absolute final decision making authority and reluinquished it only to Williams for defense. How can anyone believe otherwise? Does anyone think that maybe, just maybe....Williams wants the same thing as Gibbs had? Why wouldn't he want that? every HC wants to pick the groceries. but you know what? It doesn't work. In all franchise models the HC/GM model does not work..period! It does not work because the HC can't believe that the GM made a bad pick, because he is the GM. Gibbs had that problem with Brunell and a few others. When the HC is not the GM he plays whoever he needs to win, period. He could care less if the GM payed to much for this FA or that FA unless of course he is the GM. In the end I think JG gave a lot of player picking authority to Vinnie and it turned out pretty good this season which is what Snyder meant by "if it ain't broke don't fix it." Maybe Williams is demanding total authority. Maybe That also could explain why Vinnie was promoted to sqaush that idea. If word leaked out That GW wanted total control and was denied it, then the media jumps on Snyder when that is truly not the case. It seems to me the problem might be final absolute authority. Snyder says Vinnie..Williams says himself. Gibbs has praised Vinnie for roster depth..I will believe him... Gibbs has praised the owner for giving him everything he could ask for to succeed...I choose to believe him because it makes sense. Gibbs is leaving because he never looked like he was having fun and the toll it was taking, not because of anything Snyder did. Williams wants complete control like JG had and there in lies the real problem I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I think this may be where we have a disconnect, brother. YYour definition of "fact" and mine differ slightly. I'm wondering if his and my version of reality are even in the same ballpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte51Coleman Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Cross Country or wrestling, GSF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P007 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 At it again, we know you hate Synder, but you try to take JC down as well. Campbell isn't a lumbering, over rated QB. Patrick Ramsey on the other hand fits that description to a tee, but wait a minute you lobbied for Patrick Ramsey, and if I recall you said that he would be the savior of this franchise. So it appears to me that you have been wrong on both parts. Keep in mind, Campbell has only played 20 games, that equates to 1 season and 4 games. How can you be so critical and judgmental of him based on his body of work, just give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I think this may be where we have a disconnect, brother. Your definition of "fact" and mine differ slightly. Om - just out of curiousity - if Snyder were to hire Fassel and two new coordinators, what else could you possibly call it other than 'blowing up what Gibbs has built?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvitis Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 One of the best analyses I've seen here. As to Campbell, does anyone think he could be suffering from ambulatory catatonia, a condition that causes one to go into a form of mindless shock when under stress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokie4redskins Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 This was an excellent post. Case 3 seems pretty logical to me. I believe one of the underlying reasons Gibbs left the first time was because he didn't have the heart to tell the Art Monks and Joe Jacobys, men that brought him three titles, that they were finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 This was an excellent post. Case 3 seems pretty logical to me. I believe one of the underlying reasons Gibbs left the first time was because he didn't have the heart to tell the Art Monks and Joe Jacobys, men that brought him three titles, that they were finished. I could understand this line of thinking if he hadn't told Doug Williams that exact thing, amongst other players as well. Some of his former players were not happy with him for a period of time because he was from the day where you told a player this sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 conspiracy post where Snyder runs Gibbs out of town and bullies GW in the HC interview Not in a million years does Snyder posess the kind of balls you're talking about. You've got him 10000% wrong. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaudio5 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I don't know I always believed that Joe Gibbs wanted to relunquish himself from the offensive duties because he was critical of himself. Let's see..the media was all over him saying his offense was old and no longer effective. Brunell was the real problem but JG didn't want to believe it was Brunell's fault. JG in the off season blamed himself and decided it was best for the team to have an OC. but in the end it was hard to give total control to Saunders as much as Williams and it took a little longer than thought. Now, Williams had total control over every decision defensively, JG gave him that authority and that was obvious. It seemed to me Snyder stayed out completely except for contract negotiations but was in every conversation and had some input. But still JG had absolute final decision making authority and reluinquished it only to Williams for defense. How can anyone believe otherwise? Does anyone think that maybe, just maybe....Williams wants the same thing as Gibbs had? Why wouldn't he want that? every HC wants to pick the groceries. but you know what? It doesn't work. In all franchise models the HC/GM model does not work..period! It does not work because the HC can't believe that the GM made a bad pick, because he is the GM. Gibbs had that problem with Brunell and a few others. When the HC is not the GM he plays whoever he needs to win, period. He could care less if the GM payed to much for this FA or that FA unless of course he is the GM. In the end I think JG gave a lot of player picking authority to Vinnie and it turned out pretty good this season which is what Snyder meant by "if it ain't broke don't fix it." Maybe Williams is demanding total authority. Maybe That also could explain why Vinnie was promoted to sqaush that idea. If word leaked out That GW wanted total control and was denied it, then the media jumps on Snyder when that is truly not the case. It seems to me the problem might be final absolute authority. Snyder says Vinnie..Williams says himself. Gibbs has praised Vinnie for roster depth..I will believe him... Gibbs has praised the owner for giving him everything he could ask for to succeed...I choose to believe him because it makes sense. Gibbs is leaving because he never looked like he was having fun and the toll it was taking, not because of anything Snyder did. Williams wants complete control like JG had and there in lies the real problem I think. This really strikes a chord with me. It's ringing pretty loudly. I could see Gregg wanting total control like Gibbs. Of course this is only speculation, but a spot on analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newera Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 The fact of the matter is that Gibbs abrutly left. It's really his fault all this is happening. If he had honored his last year, he would have probably gone out on a higher note then this year. This team was on the verge. Joe is not as some fault for putting the organization in this predicament as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 The real reason? Joe sat back, looked at this mess, realized he wasn't going to be able to do squat with the team without a serious overhaul, and decided to end the marriage and run off with Toyota. Plain and simple. Just like last time he left. The OP should write for soap operas though. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Om - just out of curiousity - if Snyder were to hire Fassel and two new coordinators, what else could you possibly call it other than 'blowing up what Gibbs has built?' Good question. Off the top of my head, I'd probably call it something like ... "Snyder coming to a decision, based on a thousand-fold more relevant information than all but 2-3 people on the planet have had access to over the past 4 years, that the real and/or perceived shortcomings Gregg Williams brings to the table as a potential head coach in the end outweighed the real or perceived benefits of any "continuity" he might bring. Particularly in light of the fact said "continuity" is in itself an impossible concept to ascribe objective value to, given there are so many other factors we also know little about at the moment, such as what happens with Saunders assuming he'd even consider staying on, what the other Gibbs guys like Breaux, Bugel, Byner, etc., want to do, how GW's very different personality would mesh with the remaining coaches and all those players who have NOT necessarily openly backed GW, etc., etc., etc." But then, I tend to shoot from the lip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Good question. Off the top of my head, I'd probably call it something like ... "Snyder coming to a decision, based on a thousand-fold more relevant information than all but 2-3 people on the planet have had access to over the past 4 years, that the real and/or perceived shortcomings Gregg Williams brings to the table as a potential head coach in the end outweighed the real or perceived benefits of any "continuity" he might bring. Particularly in light of the fact said "continuity" is in itself an impossible concept to ascribe objective value to, given there are so many other factors we also know little about at the moment, such as what happens with Saunders assuming he'd even consider staying on, what the other Gibbs guys like Breaux, Bugel, Byner, etc., want to do, how GW's very different personality would mesh with the remaining coaches and all those players who have NOT necessarily openly backed GW, etc., etc., etc." But then, I tend to shoot from the lip. But you see, that would be an actual logical thought-process and clearly you will be shunned for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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