The Saunders Factor: What really happened, why Gibbs left, why Williams isn't hired

[duenni]

very nice post! I could see this have happend, but no one expect the people involved will really know for sure!!

Gotta love your signature!!!

[wskin44]

Although I have to agree that Dan Snyder tends to botch how he handles way too many things, including his current coaching search, I can't agree with the specifics of some of your guesses. The primary one is that GW's refusal to fire Saunders explains why he was not hired. In spite of what I may think of Snyder I don't think that he would be too shy to not only fire Saunders himself but take responsibility for it. I just don't think that he would expect GW to take that on himself.

Unfortunately although Snyder is capable of selling something to an individual face to face, he fails when it comes to addressing groups of people, whether it be the team, the fans or the press. The minute lovable Joe removed himself from the limelight, Dan's horrible PR instincts took over, and as each day passes the chances that any qualified coach would agree to be the HC decreases. Even GW. I'll bet that Fassel is beginning to rethink things this morning.

This return to the awful image of the Redskins that was present before Gibbs returned, is the real disaster. It will affect our ability to attract coaches and players for years to come. I had always hoped that Gibbs would remain as team President when he retired from coaching, in order to protect Snyder from his worst instincts and so that sweet Joe could remain the face of the organization. It only took Snyder a few weeks to make the Redskins the object of derision and laughter again.

[BKSkinsFan]

If Gibbs left due to his inability to endure Snyder's meddling, why would he agree to continue to help Dan in his decisions?

Could this story be possible? Anything's possible, but I'd honestly have to put this in a category of not probable. Your comments continue to support your THEORY that Campbell is a bust. You have a 50/50 shot of being right on that, and as another member in here continued to claim that Betts was better than Portis, that could have been possible also. It's easy to label people busts, and I'd have to say you've done a lot of analysis to support your opinion, but the biggest factor is that there is a very low percentage of QBs that become franchise players. You're basically picking a horse to not win the race, and labeling yourself a genius for doing so.

[Jimbo]

While ASF is a known Conspiracy Theorist, he's almost always a good read. I don't often buy into what he says but it's definitely food for thought.

[Beer is Food]

I guess anything is possible, but I was under the impression that Williams and Saunders didn't get along. If this is the case, your theory is unlikley...

[TheDarb]

I get it. Start with an opinion of Dan Snyder as a demon, then fill in the details so that you can draw the conclusion that you want to get to. Send your resume to the Washington Post.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Saunders is definitely one of the X factors in all this but I really don't agree with all your speculation. We tried to get better on offense in didn't work out that way for a variety of reasons. So we're looking for a change. I do not think The Danny is the driving force behind that, the #'s are.

[Dbrasco]

Campbell is not slow and lumbering.

[skinsscout87]

I doubt that Snyder would have had to have Williams fire Saunders after Gibbs left, I don't see why Snyder would have a problem doing that himself, he has fired a few before this.

The problem between VinDan and Williams may have to do with JC though, I wonder if Williams would fully commit to sticking with JC, starting him again asap and possibly taking losses to develop JC, when he knows Collins can run the offense, and Collins running the offense was the major reason for the run to the playoffs this year

[zCommander]

Great first you say JC is the coach killer and now it is Saunders:doh:

Edit: I am gonna have to update my sig again!:doh:

[mpollard]

Interesting analogy, but Williams Cerrato and Snyder will need to sit down again and iron some things out!

In the end all we can do is support our team!

I wish that they could sit down and iron things out. On the end, I disagree. I think it is time for danny to pay for his incompetence. The only way to get things changed now is to drop support for the team. This means financial support!!!!!! We must make him pay for his bad decisions or he will continue!!!!!!!

[Titaw]

Here's what I think happened:

Case 1: The Tom Cruise Effect

Press reported that Dan Snyder purchased Tom's company and was partnering up with him. Tom is in the owners box of the Opening Day debacle against Minnesota in 2007. The Skins go on to having a "regression" year finishing 5-11. Meanwhile, Tom Cruise is using his Scientology mind meld on Dan Snyder & Vinny Cerrato, distracting Mr. Snyder & Vinny Cerrato from their duties.

Case 2: Gibbs finds out

During offseason meetings Joe Gibbs gets the news from Son that his Grandson Taylor has Lukemia and notifies Mr. Snyder. Well, at the time of the call Tom Cruise is in the middle of "clearing" Dan Snyder. Tom convinced Mr. Snyder to allow him to talk to Joe Gibbs because Tom believes he is the only person that can help. Tom calls Gibbs and tries to use the Scientology mind meld on Gibbs. Gibbs, being a devout christian, gets upset because Tom will not take no for an answer. Gibbs contacts Mr. Snyder and expresses his displeasure.

Case 3: Death of Sean Taylor

After hearing the news Tom Cruise gets on the horn and offers his condolences with the now "Clear" Mr. Snyder. Mr. Snyder asks him to speak to the team. Tom views this as an excellent opportunity to reveal Scientology to the emotionally drained teammates. Gibbs walks into a Tom Cruise 'recruitment" speech to the team and becomes irate. Has Tom Cruise removed from the room and goes to speak with Mr. Snyder. Behind closed doors Gibbs discloses to Snyder that he does not plan on returning beyond this season, but Mr. Snyder could not hear what Gibbs was telling him because he was doing an OT I exercise: Staring at a picture of L. Ron Hubbard.

Case 4: Split of Snyder and Cruise company

Tom Cruise tells Mr. Snyder that it would be best for all parties involved if the Company parts ways. This would end the speculation that Tom Cruise has recruited M. Snyder. Mr. Snyder agrees, but under one condition, he has to graduate his OT II training. Tom Cruise agrees and in 2 weeks (an astounding pace for OT II) Mr. Snyder completes the training. This still doesn't stop Mr. Snyder from inviting Tom Cruise to the playoff game in Seattle. Tom Cruise obliges and sits in the owners box with Mr. Snyder.

Case 5: Gibbs calls it Quits

After everything that has happend in the course of one year Joe Gibbs decides to call it quits. He could deal with his grandson having lukemia, he could deal with a star player being murdered, he could even deal with pre-scientology Dan Snyder, but he could not deal with Tom Cruise and his persistance. Tom Cruise was relentless in his pursuit of Gibbs, 3am phone calls, unannounced (and unwelcomed) visits, unexplained gifts (Dianetics book), etc.

That's right folks Joe Gibbs quit because of Tom Cruise and Scientology.

Also, the reasoning behing the delay in the coaching search is the fact that Dan Snyder AND Vinny Cerrato are in the finalizing their OT III training.

See, I can do it too.

[Newera]

You said:

"But, being a great offensive coordinator doesn't mean you can take an injured, fading Mark Brunell, or a lumbering, overrated Jason Campbell and make your 700-page, high-octane offense fly. Saunders would not have picked Brunell or Campbell in a million years to run his offense"

I say:

Overrated and lumbering is just not an accurate statement. As much as you lobbied for Patrick Ramsey as being our next savior -- who has literally done nothing in this league. That is certainly a biased statement. Most all GM's would take Jason over Patrick in a heartbeat. Just adding my two cents. Wink.

Otherwise, a good argument.

[shuler74]

Can someone help me out here ..my thumb is still stuck and can't get it out

[APBT]

What follows is speculation and opinion. If you have nothing better to add to this thread than to observe my lack of proof, keep one thumb in your ass and the other in your mouth.

For the rest of you, this is my short history of what really happened in the last two years with the Redskins .........

Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato now have exactly the situation they deserve. They are the laughingstock of the league, and their reputation is earned.

Guy what brand of coffee are you drinking????? Good read fella!!! :applause: :applause:

[jrockster21]

Here's the thing - you continue to bash Campbell after 20 starts. This alone discredits anything else you say, because its completely ridiculous.

Question: in say...2003...would you have wanted Drew Brees as the QB of the Redskins?

[Titaw]

Can someone help me out here ..my thumb is still stuck and can't get it out

Turbo lax,

for fast effective relief.

[REEGSKINS]

i agree there was probably some problems between gregg and management about what to do with saunders. i also believe gregg probably wanted dan to hire a credible GM and dan refused so the next day he showed his support for vinny and gave him a TITLE promotion. i think gregg knows that danny will never give him the respect he gave coach JOE so he felt like a credible GM to oversee all football operations was proper, cause of danny's well known rep. this isnt the first time this has happened with danny. if we remember marty wouldnt have come here unless he had control cause he knew danny's meddling ways. spurrier also wanted him to hire a GM which danny promised but never came through with his promise. and gibbs for all we know probably demanded the same things. from what i hear Vinny is a good college scout but not a person who should be making all football decisions. he is too much of a YES MAN to the danny. danny doesnt need a yes man cause he isnt a great football mind. danny is basically filling the same role as Bill Parcells is with the dolphins and Vinny is in the same role as the dude Ireland is with them. now does that sound right. owners are smart business men but are by no way qualified enough to oversee football operations. danny shouldnt even be interviewing coaches. that should be done by a credible GM.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

What follows is speculation and opinion. If you have nothing better to add to this thread than to observe my lack of proof, keep one thumb in your ass and the other in your mouth.

[insert theories]

Entertaining, to say the least. But was it the Slusho, or the satellite falling from outer space into the ocean, that awoke Jim Fassel?

[Dick Edds]

Although I have to agree that Dan Snyder tends to botch how he handles way too many things, including his current coaching search, I can't agree with the specifics of some of your guesses. The primary one is that GW's refusal to fire Saunders explains why he was not hired. In spite of what I may think of Snyder I don't think that he would be too shy to not only fire Saunders himself but take responsibility for it. I just don't think that he would expect GW to take that on himself.

Unfortunately although Snyder is capable of selling something to an individual face to face, he fails when it comes to addressing groups of people, whether it be the team, the fans or the press. The minute lovable Joe removed himself from the limelight, Dan's horrible PR instincts took over, and as each day passes the chances that any qualified coach would agree to be the HC decreases. Even GW. I'll bet that Fassel is beginning to rethink things this morning.

This return to the awful image of the Redskins that was present before Gibbs returned, is the real disaster. It will affect our ability to attract coaches and players for years to come. I had always hoped that Gibbs would remain as team President when he retired from coaching, in order to protect Snyder from his worst instincts and so that sweet Joe could remain the face of the organization. It only took Snyder a few weeks to make the Redskins the object of derision and laughter again.

couldn't have said it any better! :applause:

It's really ashame ... the last few days I have resorted to the "I don't really care that much anymore mentality" that I had between the years of Gibbs I and Gibbs II.

I forgot how depressing that felt when I look at other fans of other teams doing things the right way, whether they make the playoffs or not. And when I look at all the skins memorabilia from Gibbs I and Gibbs II I have proudly displayed in my office.

Redskins pride was indeed restored, and it really didn't matter to me the exact record of our team. I saw 53 players and an entire staff become a TEAM under Gibbs II ... I see that all that continuity is slowly draining away and it tears me apart.

Instead of making a decision, any decision, it appears Snyder and Cerrato have essentially burned every bridge they once thought they had, and are now grasping at straws for any young naive coach who will agree to come i here and work under Snyder/Cerrato and with the personnel we have now.

I don't blame GW for turning down the offer even if he is given it at the last minute ... though i wish that Dan and Cerrato would find a way to convince him to take the offer.

My gut tells me we lost out on GW (and even though I didn't want him and never thought I would say it ... Fassell as well.) We'll be lucky to get some no name, unseasoned DC or OC with absolutely no HC experience. It looks as if the blind is once again leading the blind.

[War Paint]

While it is an interesting theory and it could be true, I think Gibbs just left because he had had enough of the stress and wanted to go out on a high. I really don't think that he left because he was being pushed to fire Saunders. He just didn't want to go through a potential roller coaster year next year and leave the game on a potential 5-11 season.

[mhubb1]

good post, still think snyder gave gibbs free reign because he liked gibbs so much

[ThomasRoane]

This is a very plausible theory. And backed up by the fact that snyder is so intent on blowing up the foundation that Gibbs has established. I believe you're right. That snyder was putting pressure on Gibbs and he had enough. Why else quit when the momentum was so high and the future looked so bright?

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Well, your “conclusion” is definitely consistent with, and a fitting complement to, the body of your solemn portrayal (dialogue and all) of Dan Snyder’s singular, apparently intentional and ultimately successful efforts to undermine Gibbs II ... all for reasons that essentially appear to boil down to your firm belief that the man is a short, billionaire prick.

Good work.

Thanks, Om!

Here's my feeling. When a short, billionaire prick continues to f*ck your wife, it's OK to call him a short, billionaire prick ... and after years of this, it's OK to hate him.

[Campbell's_da_man]

I think that Gibbs started seeing the light when he heard many of the fans chanting, "Joe must go, Joe must go, Joe must go........." That is something he has never heard before from the fans. But he would not leave here a failure.

I think Todd Collins came in at just the right time to save him from an embarrassing 2nd stint exit. The skins got on a roll, made the playoffs, and Gibbs knew this was his chance at leaving here as a winner. This helped him win a lot of the fans back on his side as well.