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The Saunders Factor: What really happened, why Gibbs left, why Williams isn't hired

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By Atlanta Skins Fan
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Atlanta Skins Fan

Atlanta Skins Fan

Posted
Posted

What follows is speculation and opinion. If you have nothing better to add to this thread than to observe my lack of proof, keep one thumb in your ass and the other in your mouth.

For the rest of you, this is my short history of what really happened in the last two years with the Redskins.

Case 1: Sudden hiring of Al Saunders

This never made sense to me in its particulars. Even in the past week, I've read an article talking about how Gibbs surprised Gregg Williams with the news that Saunders was hired, when Williams didn't even know that Gibbs was looking. This same article states that Gibbs based his decision partly on a remark that Williams had made previously, praising Al Saunders as the guy he'd hire as offensive coordinator, were he ever a head coach again.

With the Redskins having made the playoffs on a 5-game winning streak late in 2005, it surprised me and others that Gibbs would make such a radical change in the offense, which in effect fired himself as offensive coordinator. Get some help? Sure. How about a young crack assistant from another team, somebody to assist Joe Gibbs and maybe be the future offensive coordinator of the Redskins after Gibbs left.

Getting Al Saunders was radical. It was Gibbs firing himself. Why do that? Is there a missing explanation?

At the time and ever since, I have believed that this "missing explanation" was pressure from Dan Snyder. I believe Snyder insinuated to Gibbs that maybe Gibbs needed "help," since the offense did struggle in 2005. Gibbs, being in the Hall of Fame, didn't feel he needed "help." But, he did recognize a dysfunctional and intolerable management situation, and hit the eject button.

"You want help on offense, Dan? Go hire Al Saunders. I hear he's a hot shot."

And that's what happened. I do realize that Gibbs personally lobbied Al Saunders to come to the team. My question is why. This is the explanation that makes sense to me.

Case 2: Dysfunction among Gibbs, Saunders, Brunell, Campbell

Al Saunders is a great offensive coordinator. Anyone who says otherwise is fighting historical record.

But, being a great offensive coordinator doesn't mean you can take an injured, fading Mark Brunell, or a lumbering, overrated Jason Campbell and make your 700-page, high-octane offense fly. Saunders would not have picked Brunell or Campbell in a million years to run his offense.

So, the team sucked on offense most of the time under Saunders, with these quarterbacks. Back in October 2006, I argued that Todd Collins should start over both quarterbacks, and this argument proved to be correct in the final games of 2007. Put a proper (Saunders-selected) quarterback into his system, and your offense will take off.

During the other 28 games under Saunders, the offense mostly struggled, and Saunders took most of the blame, unfairly. We see that Gibbs himself was not on the same page with Saunders, taking over play-calling in the red zone at times (to poor effect), and rejecting advice that almost surely came from Saunders, repeatedly: "Why not try Todd Collins at QB?" We see that friction with Saunders caused questions about offensive philosophy, which filtered down to puzzled comments from various players at times.

Finally and most obviously, we see numerous media reports claiming that Snyder and Cerrato have been determined to get rid of Al Saunders and get a coach better able to develop Jason Campbell. (A pointless goal, but I digress.)

Case 3: Snyder's 1st botched assassination of Al Saunders

I believe that Snyder once again approached Gibbs about Al Saunders, this time in mid-season 2007. I believe Snyder essentially directed Gibbs to fire Saunders at season's end, and find an assistant better prepared to develop Jason Campbell.

Around the time that Sean Taylor was killed, I believe Gibbs decided he'd had enough of this circus. "Life is too short for this sh*t" -- yes, obviously. But, why come to that conclusion now? Simply due to Sean Taylor's death? Or, was a short, billionaire prick standing on Gibbs's foot at the time?

I think Gibbs gave Dan Snyder exactly the response he deserved, at season's end. "You know what, Dan? I've decided that I'm not going to do your dirty work. You want to fire Al Saunders? Do it yourself. I'm out of here."

Case 4: Snyder's 2nd botched assassination of Al Saunders

Reeling from Gibbs's sudden departure, Snyder sits down with the obvious successor, Gregg Williams.

At some point in these discussions, probably early, Snyder and Cerrato explain that they want Al Saunders gone. So, if they promote Williams to be head coach, one of the first things he needs to do is fire Al Saunders and go get a good offensive coordinator to develop Jason Campbell.

Williams listens to this, and comes to the same conclusion that Joe Gibbs did.

"You know, Dan, I'd love to be your head coach. Really and truly. But, even with the differences I've had with Al, I'm not prepared to fire him. If I do decide to fire him, that needs to be my conclusion based on my deliberation, because he's my assistant coach.

"If you want to fire Al Saunders, you're going to need to do that yourself, and you're going to need to do that before you hire me. Once I'm your head coach, the staff is mine. From that point on, if you want to fire someone, fire me."

And this is why we saw four interviews with Williams, and such obvious confusion on the part of Snyder and Cerrato in the past two weeks. They created this mess, and Gregg Williams wasn't willing to help them out by firing Al Saunders.

Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato now have exactly the situation they deserve. They are the laughingstock of the league, and their reputation is earned.

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kleese

kleese

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Posted

Well thought-out, and quite possibly true. Here are my two major complaints with your analysis:

1. I don't believe Snyder "watched over" Gibbs nearly as closely as you think. I truly believe that Snyder admired Gibbs to the point where he would do almost anything Gibbs said. JG may have been one of the few people in the world that Snyder would not attempt to strong-arm. I could definitely see him "advising" Gibbs to add some offensive help following the 2005 season---that makes some sense. But other than that, I do not see Snyder hovering over Gibbs as you insinuate.

2. I think you are being a little quick to judge Campbell. I DO believe that he is overrated by most of the fanbase. I was very troubled by his late-game chokes in Dallas and Tampa this year--- those were things he should have conquered by now, IMO. Having said that, the history of QB's in the NFL tells you that many successful QB's take quite awhile to finally hit stride. JC has shown enough upside in his year or so of starts to warrant a longer look.

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SkinsFTW

SkinsFTW

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I didn't really like the Saunders hire but I don't believe that Snyder said anything like that to Gibbs. I think Gibbs blamed himself, rather than admit that Brunell wasn't very good, lol. So he hired Saunders.

Saunders was a top OC, 1 time, in KC. Before that, for 2 decades or more he was a WR coach or similar. He was a HC one time but as far as I can tell he was only ever the OC in KC and that was under Vermeil, probably running Vermeils system. In SD he went from WR coach to HC. He didn't run the Air Coryell offense, he was a position coach.

But I do agree that if you hire the guy, and his offense is hard to grasp, then you let him play the guys who can make it work. If that was Collins in 2006 then he should have started.

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DWinzit

DWinzit

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I don't know if we will ever know all the ins and outs of the past few years but this is an interesting perspective, thanks for sharing it.

I'm going to work and will be thinking this one over instead of making a rash decision like many of our posters, me included have doing over the past week.

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MDRedskinsFan

MDRedskinsFan

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I could actually see much of this happening. While I don't think Gibbs resigned because he didn't want to fire Saunders, I think the part about Williams being asked to do it and refusing could be true. In fact, if that is the case, then maybe we wouldn't have to worry about losing Gregg as our DC, unless he was really turned off by the interviews. It's sad to say, but given this mess, I think we'd be extremely lucky to hire a coach like Jim Fassel. Because no other coach with a resume like his, or even a young up and comer is going to put up with this ****. If this is the case, I don't want Gregg Williams as head coach because his reputation would be tarnished working for the Danny.

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Om

Om

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Posted
What follows is speculation and opinion. If you have nothing better to add to this thread than to observe my lack of proof, keep one thumb in your ass and the other in your mouth.

For the rest of you, this is my short history of what really happened in the last two years with the Redskins.

Shame on you for opening with a cheap, inflammatory pre-emptive shot at anyone who might consider challenging your admitted speculations as precisely what they are. Want considered, rational responses? Try starting off without the snide, condescending tone of dismissal.

Just a thought.

Case 1: Sudden hiring of Al Saunders

This never made sense to me in its particulars. Even in the past week, I've read an article talking about how Gibbs surprised Gregg Williams with the news that Saunders was hired, when Williams didn't even know that Gibbs was looking. This same article states that Gibbs based his decision partly on a remark that Williams had made previously, praising Al Saunders as the guy he'd hire as offensive coordinator, were he ever a head coach again.

With the Redskins having made the playoffs on a 5-game winning streak late in 2005, it surprised me and others that Gibbs would make such a radical change in the offense, which in effect fired himself as offensive coordinator. Get some help? Sure. How about a young crack assistant from another team, somebody to assist Joe Gibbs and maybe be the future offensive coordinator of the Redskins after Gibbs left.

Getting Al Saunders was radical. It was Gibbs firing himself. Why do that? Is there a missing explanation?

At the time and ever since, I have believed that this "missing explanation" was pressure from Dan Snyder. I believe Snyder insinuated to Gibbs that maybe Gibbs needed "help," since the offense did struggle in 2005. Gibbs, being in the Hall of Fame, didn't feel he needed "help." But, he did recognize a dysfunctional and intolerable management situation, and hit the eject button.

"You want help on offense, Dan? Go hire Al Saunders. I hear he's a hot shot."

And that's what happened. I do realize that Gibbs personally lobbied Al Saunders to come to the team. My question is why. This is the explanation that makes sense to me.

Maybe, maybe not. Out of a myriad possibilities, it’s definitely one.

When I’ve allowed myself the luxury of speculating as to the “real” reason or reasons Saunders might have been brought in, I’ve often wondered if it was mere coincidence that Gibbs' sudden and surprising decision to look for help on the offensive side of the ball, where for two years he had spent most of his coaching time, coincided with the gut-wrenching news that his grandson had been diagnosed with a deadly disease. As we subsequently learned via his own statements, at the time he seriously tabled the idea of retiring again with his family before the 2006 season even began.

Could that be “the” reason? Maybe, maybe not. Out of a myriad possibilities, it’s definitely one.

Case 2: Dysfunction among Gibbs, Saunders, Brunell, Campbell

Al Saunders is a great offensive coordinator. Anyone who says otherwise is fighting historical record.

But, being a great offensive coordinator doesn't mean you can take an injured, fading Mark Brunell, or a lumbering, overrated Jason Campbell and make your 700-page, high-octane offense fly. Saunders would not have picked Brunell or Campbell in a million years to run his offense.

So, the team sucked on offense most of the time under Saunders, with these quarterbacks. Back in October 2006, I argued that Todd Collins should start over both quarterbacks, and this argument proved to be correct in the final games of 2007. Put a proper (Saunders-selected) quarterback into his system, and your offense will take off.

During the other 28 games under Saunders, the offense mostly struggled, and Saunders took most of the blame, unfairly. We see that Gibbs himself was not on the same page with Saunders, taking over play-calling in the red zone at times (to poor effect), and rejecting advice that almost surely came from Saunders, repeatedly: "Why not try Todd Collins at QB?" We see that friction with Saunders caused questions about offensive philosophy, which filtered down to puzzled comments from various players at times.

Finally and most obviously, we see numerous media reports claiming that Snyder and Cerrato have been determined to get rid of Al Saunders and get a coach better able to develop Jason Campbell. (A pointless goal, but I digress.)

The idea that Todd Collins would be granted the starter’s role from the beginning sounds smart in hindsight, but claiming it was a realistic option at the time seems self-serving.

The reality is there were two established QB’s already on the roster (both brought in to run offenses quite different from Saunders’), one a bonus baby draft pick, the other a hand-picked veteran brought in to carry the team during the transition from Spurrier to Gibbs, plus give the bonus baby time to develop.

In a perfect world, sure, Collins’ familiarity with the Saunders system would have earned him at least a look at starter in 2006. But that’s also a world that ignores the realities of today’s professional football — in terms of everything from cap considerations to locker room divisions to recognition that despite Collins’ long history with Saunders, the fact is he’d never played nor given any real indication he’d have the success he did in 4 games at the end of 2007 — that would have been in play not just in Washington, but anywhere in the league.

Seems to me the obvious rough spots in the Saunders/Gibbs/Brunell/Campbell/Collins association were an unfortunate and probably inevitable result of the unknown circumstances that led to Gibbs feeling he needed to bring in Saunders in the first place. I don’t see any evidence to believe Dan Snyder had thing one to do with it. Then again, I don’t have the personal hatred for the man you do.

Could he have nefariously orchestrated all of that? Sure. Out of a myriad possibilities, it’s definitely one.

Case 3: Snyder's 1st botched assassination of Al Saunders

I believe that Snyder once again approached Gibbs about Al Saunders, this time in mid-season 2007. I believe Snyder essentially directed Gibbs to fire Saunders at season's end, and find an assistant better prepared to develop Jason Campbell.

Around the time that Sean Taylor was killed, I believe Gibbs decided he'd had enough of this circus. "Life is too short for this sh*t" -- yes, obviously. But, why come to that conclusion now? Simply due to Sean Taylor's death? Or, was a short, billionaire prick standing on Gibbs's foot at the time?

I think Gibbs gave Dan Snyder exactly the response he deserved, at season's end. "You know what, Dan? I've decided that I'm not going to do your dirty work. You want to fire Al Saunders? Do it yourself. I'm out of here."

Maybe, maybe not. Mostly though, I think this part is just you finally getting around to the pretty obvious underlying factor and driving force behind your post—your deep personal disdain for Dan Snyder.

I’ll give you credit, though, it was a smart thing to include in your story. It appeals directly to the “Snyder sucks!” mob mentality rampant around here these days, and as such is certain to garner you plenty of hits and responses.

Case 4: Snyder's 2nd botched assassination of Al Saunders

Reeling from Gibbs's sudden departure, Snyder sits down with the obvious successor, Gregg Williams.

At some point in these discussions, probably early, Snyder and Cerrato explain that they want Al Saunders gone. So, if they promote Williams to be head coach, one of the first things he needs to do is fire Al Saunders and go get a good offensive coordinator to develop Jason Campbell.

Williams listens to this, and comes to the same conclusion that Joe Gibbs did.

"You know, Dan, I'd love to be your head coach. Really and truly. But, even with the differences I've had with Al, I'm not prepared to fire him. If I do decide to fire him, that needs to be my conclusion based on my deliberation, because he's my assistant coach.

"If you want to fire Al Saunders, you're going to need to do that yourself, and you're going to need to do that before you hire me. Once I'm your head coach, the staff is mine. From that point on, if you want to fire someone, fire me."

And this is why we saw four interviews with Williams, and such obvious confusion on the part of Snyder and Cerrato in the past two weeks. They created this mess, and Gregg Williams wasn't willing to help them out by firing Al Saunders.

Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato now have exactly the situation they deserve. They are the laughingstock of the league, and their reputation is earned.

Well, your “conclusion” is definitely consistent with, and a fitting complement to, the body of your solemn portrayal (dialogue and all) of Dan Snyder’s singular, apparently intentional and ultimately successful efforts to undermine Gibbs II ... all for reasons that essentially appear to boil down to your firm belief that the man is a short, billionaire prick.

Good work.

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Riggo-toni

Riggo-toni

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ASF - Buddy, you should edit your title ie "What may have really happened..."

or "Speculation:The Saunders Factor..."

I think the truth actually is closer to your own observation that Campbell was Al Saunders' "coach killer." Campbell was picked for his ability to run a Gibbs 1991 offense before Saunders came on board, and his slow release and inaccuracy made him a terrible fit for Saunders' O. My guess is Snyder blames Saunders, and wants an OC who will develop Campbell rather than admit we blew yet another #1 on a poor QB.

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SWFLSkins

SWFLSkins

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Posted

Your “conclusion” is consistent with and a fitting complement to the body of your solemn portrayal of Dan Snyder’s singular, apparently intentional and ultimately successful efforts to undermined Gibbs II, all for reasons that essentially appear to boil down to your belief that the man is a short, billionaire prick.

Good work.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Om, how in the world did you come to such rationale not being able to use your thumbs? Great job and I agree, we the fanbase, "Can't handle the Truth."

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LuvtheSkins428

LuvtheSkins428

Posted
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Perhaps Gibbs also knew the Vinny would be promoted and didn't agree with that decision? That's a good theory you have there and could be possible, although I agree with some other posters on this board, would DS really have the nerve to strongarm Gibbs?

Whatever the outcome, Danny has screwed this whole thing up beyond belief and it is embarrasing for the franchise. He looks like such an amateur out there.

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