Dictator Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Compare him to similar peers with, on paper anyway, the same roles and responsibilities and he ranks dead last. He is a "yes" man, plain and simple. Anyone worth their salt in his position would have walked away at some of the personnel moves made by this organization. Synder is good at surrounding himself with people he trusts, not necessarily the best people to provide him with insight and strategy. I'm going to ask you to back up this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natsfan3 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Jim Drunkenmiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgundyBooger Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Perhaps the problem is that Snyder and Vinny allowed the coaches (Spurrier, Gibbs, Williams) to get the players they "had" to have. That is also a common denominator as well. They've pretty much let the coaches do what they want and they just handle the finances. Spurrier advocated the inclusion of a general manager. Gibbs, having returned to the NFL after a decade, consulted heavily with the front office, at least initially. Even so, ultimately, his power was awarded to him by Snyder, which some begin to question if that was a smart move on the part of the owner in and of itself. If the team's mediocrity these past few years isn't the direct result of Snyder and Cerrato's mishandling of the front office, it is, then, the indirect result of it. They both have either failed to engineer and manage this team optimally, or they have failed to bring in the right people to engineer and manage this team optimally. Either way, the blame falls on their collect shoulders. It always starts at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuler74 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 The whole coaching fraternity in the NFL thinks he is a joke according to this morning on espn first take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 When judging Vinny, first and foremost you can discard the Gibbs years. All Cerrato did was hand off film, stats, etc. to the staff, and Gibbs together with GW and the assistant coaches made all the decisions. Vinny's real power was in 2000, 2002, and especially 2003 after Mendes was squeezed out. Pros: In '99 prior to the season, made some good pickups: Andy Heck, Larry Centers. In '00, passed on Peter Warrick and drafted Chris Samuels instead. In '02, found Robert Royal in the 5th round In 03, he allegedly wanted to draft Mike Doss in the 2nd round, but got overruled when SS wanted Taylor Jacobs :doh: Drafted Dockery in the 3rd. Signed Randy Thomas Cons: Besides the FA spending spree, which was probably more Snyder's desire, his draft in '00 set us way back. He traded 2 #1s and a 3rd rounder to move up in the first which saddled us with huge cap figures for 2 top 3 picks, and everyone picked after Samuels was a bust. His draft in '02 was mediocre. Ramsey was supposedly more Mendes' pick, and Betts has turned out to be a decent pick, though we probably could've picked DE Weaver and still found Betts in the 3rd. Every other pick was a bust except for Cartwright, who was handpicked by Hue Jackson, and Royal. 03- Cut Wilkinson just before camp with NO viable alternative at DT. Picked up a bunch of dreadful scrubs cut by other teams who couldn't play a lick. Traded for Trung Canidate. Most suicidal move after the DT situation - over the allegedly screaming objections of Spurrier and Hue Jackson, cut the only RB on staff who knew how to pick up a blitz (Kenny Watson) to make a roster spot for total bust and headcase Sultan McCollough. Though Watson was certainly no world-beater, not having an RB to stop the blitz os one of the biggest reasons Ramsey took so many more hits/sacks in '03 than '02. (Think of how many times Portis has saved our QBs' butt). Other than Dockery, another lousy draft, though there weren't many picks anyways since most had been traded for RFAs. Gave a monster contract and had to surrender a 4th for Chad Morton. :laugh: Cerrato's draft record stinks, going all the way back to SF, where all his picks not named Terrell Owens were busts (Druckenmiller, anyone?). The end result is a team with little or no depth. Furthermore, he's failed where the Pats and Eagles FOs have succeeded - locking up players BEFORE their contracts run out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyZeb Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Redskins fans always need someone to crap on, and since Jimoh's gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 This topic has been raging on for the last several days. Its in the thread with the big read me sticker which leads off the Stadium.http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234593 I considered posting in there but it's one big ***** fest. I was hoping to find out some factual information on his decisions and the moves he made. I didn't intend this to be a continuation of bickering over him. Too much to ask, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cy115 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Mike Reinfeldt/ Tenn - Turnaround to playoff team/V. Young Ed McGuire/SD - Speaks for itself with the draft strategies John Mara/NYG - Again, speaks for itself, draft and FA (snatching pierce for one) Paul Vance/Jack - Garrard over Leftwich???? Rod Graves/Ari - Draft (Leinhart), E. James???? Ted Thompson/GB Mike Shanahan/Den - Well some things have imploded, but not as bad as Cerrato (Bailey for Portis trade, who really won???) I could keep going. How about this though, give me one or two that have done worse...or less for that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 When judging Vinny, first and foremost you can discard the Gibbs years........ Thanks Riggo. That is the info I was looking for. Appreciate the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Emrys Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 A better title for this thread would be "Why is Vinny C being discussed in this thread when its an ongoing discussion?" Some of the most thorough information regarding Vinny was posted in these two messages: http://extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4783225&postcount=270 http://extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4783406&postcount=290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 riggo toni nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 A better title for this thread would be "Why is Vinny C being discussed in this thread when its an ongoing discussion?"Some of the most thorough information regarding Vinny was posted in these two messages: http://extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4783225&postcount=270 http://extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4783406&postcount=290 Maybe. But maybe finding posts 270 and 290 out of 451 posts without having participated in the thread from the beginning is too daunting a task for someone who has other responsibilities than just browsing Extremeskins. My thread was a specific plea for facts from someone who might have them. Riggo provided a nice summary thus fullfilling my post. Thread can die a merciful death now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway66 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 What was his record like in San fransisco didnt he deliver the Niners to "Salary Cap Hell" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM916 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 He's the easy scapegoat for anything that goes wrong. Snyder is supposed to be off to the side and you certainly don't blame a guy like Gibbs. That leaves Vinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoCommiesGo Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 What was his record like in San fransisco didnt he deliver the Niners to "Salary Cap Hell" That and after running the 49rs draft for several years the only pick he hit on after the first three rounds was Fred Beasely. His draft record is horrid. -Edit- Hell the only pick he hit on in the first three rounds was T.O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corkscrew44 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Thank you Riggo-toni. Cerrato will run this team into the ground. Promote Williams to Head Coach Dan! Draft an offensive lineman damn it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 any and every good move cerrato has made is nullified by the worst transaction in our franchise's history: trung canidate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Gut Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Yup, because drafting dlineman in the 1st round is such a sure thing.:doh: that doesn't mean you rule it out completely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDRedskinsFan Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 People love to praise Ozzie Newsome up the road in Baltimore for his work as a GM. However, their fans criticized him for years because when asked, he said he drafts people who touch the ball. That would exclude the offensive and defensive lines. Granted, he has been lucky with his picks for other positions, so he's been let off the hook. Bobby Beathard picked Ryan Leaf. Does it make him a bad GM? Absolutely not, it was one bad pick. Charlie Casserly was criticized for taking Mario Williams over Reggie Bush. Anyone willing to argue against him today? Just like the rest of them, Vinny has gotten lucky on some, not so lucky on others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Burner Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Why is Vinny so despised? Because there are some 50,000 members at ES who think they could do a better job. My suggestion to those who despise him - submit your resume. And don't worry, you'll get the same treatment too. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocazares Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 It's the eyes, man. THE EYES! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA How many fingers did you see Vinny? "No Vinny, the left hand nor the right, oh did you see both separately, I didn't know that Vinny, sorry." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dictator Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I could keep going. How about this though, give me one or two that have done worse...or less for that matter? Matt Millen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dictator Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 People love to praise Ozzie Newsome up the road in Baltimore for his work as a GM. However, their fans criticized him for years because when asked, he said he drafts people who touch the ball. That would exclude the offensive and defensive lines. Granted, he has been lucky with his picks for other positions, so he's been let off the hook. I think the Ravens Scouts are just far better than most other teams...with the exception of whoever is scouting QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Emrys Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Maybe. But maybe finding posts 270 and 290 out of 451 posts without having participated in the thread from the beginning is too daunting a task for someone who has other responsibilities than just browsing Extremeskins. My thread was a specific plea for facts from someone who might have them. Riggo provided a nice summary thus fullfilling my post. Thread can die a merciful death now. Good point. Since the search function on extremeskins seems to be circa 1995, I see your difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceGeorgeJoe Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Jim Drunkenmiller Terrell Owens, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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