CrypticVillain Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 heh ok I need that one explained....I know Cena is a "pro-wrestler" but whats the joke I'm missing? =p Basically saying that the boxing world wants to keep Manny on top. You know, scripting fights, etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I didn't see the fight on HBO's telecast so I have no idea what they had to say, but the UK telecast was crying bloody murder, said it was pretty much BS, and that Marquez was basically a victim of trying to get in the way of the biggest fight Boxing has left to put on. And this whole "ring generalship" or whatever. This is boxing not street fighting. Just because one guy is moving forward and one guy is moving backwards, it doesn't mean he is "dominating the ring" JMM was there to counter punch. To get in and out. Take a step back, make Pac miss and counter. It was working, it worked. For the first six rounds or so, Manny was lunging and over reaching and missing most of his shots, while being counter punched. ATTEMPTING 10000 punches doesn't matter. Landing them is the name of the game. Not sure how ANYONE could have not had it 4-2 for JMM after 6, then after that the rounds got close, you could argue a split 3-3. 7-5 JMM. JMM wins. I would have settled for a draw, or possibly a split decision, but 116-112 is a joke. Oh well, if a 38 year old JMM did this too Pac, can't wait to see Mayweather send Pac into retirement in style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Also, the 116-112 judge needs to be kept away from title fights. I just read he had Manny up by 5 rounds before the 12th (the other 2 judges had JMM by 1 and Manny by 1 at that point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 the UK telecast was crying bloody murder I was watching that too. It was a nice change up to the bull they have on HBO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Oh well, if a 38 year old JMM did this too Pac, can't wait to see Mayweather send Pac into retirement in style. Part of me thinks we're about to see a role reversal, with Mayweather actually wanting the fight and Bob Arum (not Pacquiao) doing everything he can to keep him away from Mayweather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C26 Run Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 If you honestly think that, you shouldn't watch boxing anymore. That would simply mean the fights are totally rigged and should be ignored.---------- Post added November-13th-2011 at 01:08 AM ---------- Just to be clear, I don't really want to defend this that much because it was a very close fight. It could have gone the other way and I actually wouldn't have been that bothered....but to see people act like JMM dominated and got robbed seems a little extreme. Just so I'm clear, you don't think judges can be corrupted? I'm not saying JMM dominated this fight, I posted that at best he won a split decision. But one judge scored the fight 116-112, are you kidding me? At worse, this fight should be a draw but not a majority decision for either fighter. :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Not sure how ANYONE could have not had it 4-2 for JMM after 6. That's the frustrating thing about boxing, it's all a matter of opinion. I had it 4-2 the other way but would feel comfortable saying it was 3-3. It was just a close fight and I feel bad for JMM because Beristain insisted he had it wrapped up and you could see JMM ease up the final 2-3 rounds and it cost him. If Beristain hadn't done that and JMM didn't slow up....I'd be jumping up and down yelling that he got robbed right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 And this whole "ring generalship" or whatever. This is boxing not street fighting. Just because one guy is moving forward and one guy is moving backwards, it doesn't mean he is "dominating the ring" JMM was there to counter punch. To get in and out. Take a step back, make Pac miss and counter. It was working, it worked. For the first six rounds or so, Manny was lunging and over reaching and missing most of his shots, while being counter punched. ATTEMPTING 10000 punches doesn't matter. Landing them is the name of the game. Not sure how ANYONE could have not had it 4-2 for JMM after 6, then after that the rounds got close, you could argue a split 3-3. 7-5 JMM. JMM wins. I would have settled for a draw, or possibly a split decision, but 116-112 is a joke. . You don't have to like it, but ring generalship, aggression, controlling the tempo of the fight are all used to score fights. It's not just punches landed. Counter punchers often get nicked for their pension to let someone keep coming at them. On another note, a lot of the scorers I followed had Manny up early 3 rounds to 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Just so I'm clear, you don't think judges can be corrupted? I'm not saying JMM dominated this fight, I posted that at best he won a split decision. But one judge scored the fight 116-112, are you kidding me? At worse, this fight should be a draw but not a majority decision for either fighter. :helmet: Oh no, I think they easily can, but to say that no matter what he was winning even if he got knocked down 100 times? That's just a really extreme way to state things. I realize judges can be gotten to and convinced to nudge scoring on close rounds, wouldn't argue with that....this isn't 1923 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) So I missed the fight but I've skimmed through recent pages of this thread, do all of you guys think Pacman should have lost the decision? Or at best had a draw? Wow. Edited November 13, 2011 by d0ublestr0ker0ll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 So I missed the fight but I've skimmed through recent pages of this thread, do all of you guys think Pacman should have lost the decision? Or at best had a draw? Wow. It was close....on here I appear to be in the minority agreeing with the decision (though I think the 116-112 judge was a nut). I actually think anyone who had the fight by more than 2 rounds for either fighter is off... I'd avoid a lot of the technical recap and just watch the replay on HBO and draw your own conclusion. (Just like I'd say ignore the crowd who were in JMM corner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 The only thing I will side on Unforgiven's behalf is at the end of the day, you want to be the champion, you have to take it. You can't leave it to the judges. He left it to the judges. So as typical in boxing, the champion prevails in a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 The punch stats were a tad closer than I expected: "According to CompuBox, Pacquiao landed 176 of 578 punches. Marquez connected on 138 of 436 punches, preferring, as in his first two fights, to counter punch. Pacquiao had a 117-100 edge in power shots." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocazares Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 ROB, just like if I enter a bank with pistol in hand and claim all the money to the dude behind the glass with 4 cameras following my moves and seeing my face crystal clear. JMM 2 Pac 1 Today I lost all the respect I had until tonight on box and Pac. JMM one more time you beat Pac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 No way did Marquez win that fight. He probably could have won it, but his trainers were too dumb to realize how close the fight really was. ---------- Post added November-13th-2011 at 03:01 AM ---------- BS. One guy can not as a PRO see it as a draw and the guy seated next to him sees 4 rounds completely different. Who cares what the odds makers say. Watching the fight Pac pretty much didn't control anything. The crowd booed Manny for heavens sake. He was controlled and it was evident. Sucks because I love boxing, but that is garbage. They booed him before the fight even started. It's obvious that there were a lot more Mexicans than Phillipinos in the crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21cents Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 just a sidenote, this fight only reaffirms my belief that Mayweather beats Pacquiao pretty easy. Lets no go their now. I remember clearly, oscar de la hoya beating mayweather but judes gave it to floyd. Within a year pacman knocks out de la hoya. Pacman struggled his whole career with marquez. I dont think this fight defines the outcome of his fight against mayweather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 How did I know the idiot Mayweather fans would try to use this fight to justify Mayweather beating Pac? Styles makes fights and obviously Marquez' style presents a problem for Pac. Just as Mayweather, I'm willing to bet that all his followers were praying Marquez won to take Mayweather off the hook. I'm waiting for Mayweathers "Marquez was robbed" rant which will surely happen in the next couple of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 But Mayweather's style against Pacman would be very similar, except he is faster, more elusive and harder to hit, and he is a ton more slick with his counter-punching. Of course after tonight's fight that should be a conversation brought up since styles do match matches, and Mayweather is better than JMM at that very style. Manny looked frustrated and flustered at times because JMM was effective at taking small steps backwards to make Manny miss, and then throw counter punches. Well, what do you think Mayweather is going to do? Pac has built a reputation over the past few years on beating a lot of "warriors" who were gladly willing to just walk straight into his punches, thinking that being the natural bigger person they could just eat his punches. They figured being hit coming in was a means to an end. They found out the hard way that Pac's output was crazy good and his power was underrated. Then he finally gets in the ring with someone who isn't going to do that. Someone who is going to actually try to counter Pac's offense and look how drastically it changed Pac's game. Keep in mind this was a 38 year old JMM. The same JMM that Mayweather soundly beat unanimously a few years back. Oh and Arum being the class act he is, cut the post fight press conference off when questions weren't going his way. And now he is already talking about Pac/JMM 4 in 2012. Right. Who's ducking who now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 But Mayweather's style against Pacman would be very similar, except he is faster, more elusive and harder to hit, and he is a ton more slick with his counter-punching. Of course after tonight's fight that should be a conversation brought up since styles do match matches, and Mayweather is better than JMM at that very style. Manny looked frustrated and flustered at times because JMM was effective at taking small steps backwards to make Manny miss, and then throw counter punches. Well, what do you think Mayweather is going to do?Pac has built a reputation over the past few years on beating a lot of "warriors" who were gladly willing to just walk straight into his punches, thinking that being the natural bigger person they could just eat his punches. They figured being hit coming in was a means to an end. They found out the hard way that Pac's output was crazy good and his power was underrated. Then he finally gets in the ring with someone who isn't going to do that. Someone who is going to actually try to counter Pac's offense and look how drastically it changed Pac's game. Keep in mind this was a 38 year old JMM. The same JMM that Mayweather soundly beat unanimously a few years back. Oh and Arum being the class act he is, cut the post fight press conference off when questions weren't going his way. And now he is already talking about Pac/JMM 4 in 2012. Right. Who's ducking who now? May is still the ducker. He has yet to call out Pac. Maybe this fight would do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 just a sidenote, this fight only reaffirms my belief that Mayweather beats Pacquiao pretty easy. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 So all it takes is Marquez to do what Floyd is unwilling to do to justify that he'll beat Manny? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 So all it takes is Marquez to do what Floyd is unwilling to do to justify that he'll beat Manny?Interesting. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) No. Most people have been saying Mayweather would do this well before the JMM fight. It is just another piece of evidence for the argument, but what do we know, we're just idiot Mayweather fans, right? Edited November 13, 2011 by NoCalMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 No. Most people have been saying Mayweather would do this well before the JMM fight. It is just another piece of evidence for the argument, but what do we know, we're just idiot Mayweather fans, right? You CANNOT sit there and say just because Manny fought a war with JMM that it automatically means Floyd will beat him. By that logic, since Floyd had a more difficult time beating Oscar, Hatton and Mosley, then Manny will beat Floyd considering he beat all three easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 By your logic, you assume that anyone who feels like that fight last night was bs must be a Mayweather fan, or Pac hater. Amazing logic you have there sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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