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Rate of ice melt shocks warming experts


alexey

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WOW!! There's NOTHING more convincing than a cartoon map illustration (a shoddy one at that too) to PROVE global warming.

Anybody else realize that in the 6 BILLION years the Earth has been around, there's been warming in the poles that would make today's standards look like a burgeoning ice age? People realize this right?

these guys better evolve some gills and flippers

Chill out, Dramatica. You have no clue what you're talking about.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/09/wpolar09.xml

Polar bears 'thriving as the Arctic warms up'

By Fred Langan in Toronto and Tom Leonard

Last Updated: 1:43am GMT 09/03/2007

Polar bear populations in Canada's eastern Arctic are thriving

A survey of the animals' numbers in Canada's eastern Arctic has revealed that they are thriving, not declining, because of mankind's interference in the environment.

In the Davis Strait area, a 140,000-square kilometre region, the polar bear population has grown from 850 in the mid-1980s to 2,100 today.

"There aren't just a few more bears. There are a hell of a lot more bears," said Mitch Taylor, a polar bear biologist who has spent 20 years studying the animals.

His findings back the claims of Inuit hunters who have long claimed that they were seeing more bears.

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WOW!! There's NOTHING more convincing than a cartoon map illustration (a shoddy one at that too) to PROVE global warming.

Chill out, Dramatica. You have no clue what you're talking about.

I think he was making a joke. Someone in this thread definitely needs to chill out. Which is ironic given what this thread is about.

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Yes, lets keep arguing about it while we drive our hummers all around town so that if it does happen, we can all remember how instead of just leading cleaner lifestyles which isn't that hard and should have nothing to with whether or not you believe in global warming, we stood around bickering while our coastal cities sank into the ocean. Or on the other hand, we adhere to higher standards for pollution and cleanliness, it turns out that global warming was fake, and we sit around thinking "oh well, at least the air is cleaner and we feel healthier."

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Yes, lets keep arguing about it while we drive our hummers all around town so that if it does happen, we can all remember how instead of just leading cleaner lifestyles which isn't that hard and should have nothing to with whether or not you believe in global warming, we stood around bickering while our coastal cities sank into the ocean. Or on the other hand, we adhere to higher standards for pollution and cleanliness, it turns out that global warming was fake, and we sit around thinking "oh well, at least the air is cleaner and we feel healthier."

OR, we can impose government regulation/control across the entire private sector in some futile attempt to control weather patterns while spending hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

:thumbsup:

You think government's intrusive now? Wait until they start enforcing laws and exorbitant taxes on "climate change".

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OR, we can impose government regulation/control across the entire private sector in some futile attempt to control weather patterns while hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

:thumbsup:

Do you really think that the thousands of climatologists involved in this are all just making stuff up?

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Do you really think that the thousands of climatologists involved in this are all just making stuff up?

Do you really think the growing numbers in the scientific community that are no longer afraid of being blackballed are making it up? If so, then the answer to you question is "yes."

Skeptical Scientists Urge World To ‘Have the Courage to Do Nothing’ At UN Conference

By EPW Blog Tuesday, December 11, 2007

BALI, Indonesia - An international team of scientists skeptical of man-made climate fears promoted by the UN and former Vice President Al Gore, descended on Bali this week to urge the world to “have the courage to do nothing” in response to UN demands.

Lord Christopher Monckton, a UK climate researcher, had a blunt message for UN climate conference participants on Monday.

“Climate change is a non problem. The right answer to a non problem is to have the courage to do nothing,” Monckton told participants.

“The UN conference is a complete waste of our time and your money and we should no longer pay the slightest attention to the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change,)” Monckton added. (LINK)

Monckton also noted that the UN has not been overly welcoming to the group of skeptical scientists.

“UN organizers refused my credentials and appeared desperate that I should not come to this conference. They have also made several attempts to interfere with our public meetings,” Monckton explained.

“It is a circus here,” agreed Australian scientist Dr. David Evans. Evans is making scientific presentations to delegates and journalists at the conference revealing the latest peer-reviewed studies that refute the UN’s climate claims.

“This is the most lavish conference I have ever been to, but I am only a scientist and I actually only go to the science conferences,” Evans said, noting the luxury of the tropical resort. (Note: An analysis by Bloomberg News on December 6 found: “Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.” - LINK)

Evans, a mathematician who did carbon accounting for the Australian government, recently converted to a skeptical scientist about man-made global warming after reviewing the new scientific studies. (LINK)

“We now have quite a lot of evidence that carbon emissions definitely don’t cause global warming. We have the missing [human] signature [in the atmosphere], we have the IPCC models being wrong and we have the lack of a temperature going up the last 5 years,” Evans said in an interview with the Inhofe EPW Press Blog. Evans authored a November 28 2007 paper “Carbon Emissions Don’t Cause Global Warming.” (LINK)

Evans touted a new peer-reviewed study by a team of scientists appearing in the December 2007 issue of the International Journal of Climatology of the Royal Meteorological Society which found “Warming is naturally caused and shows no human influence.” (LINK)

“Most of the people here have jobs that are very well paid and they depend on the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming. They are not going to be very receptive to the idea that well actually the science has gone off in a different direction,” Evans explained.

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/925

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WOW!! There's NOTHING more convincing than a cartoon map illustration (a shoddy one at that too) to PROVE global warming.

Anybody else realize that in the 6 BILLION years the Earth has been around, there's been warming in the poles that would make today's standards look like a burgeoning ice age? People realize this right?

Chill out, Dramatica. You have no clue what you're talking about.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/09/wpolar09.xml

Polar bears 'thriving as the Arctic warms up'

By Fred Langan in Toronto and Tom Leonard

Last Updated: 1:43am GMT 09/03/2007

Polar bear populations in Canada's eastern Arctic are thriving

A survey of the animals' numbers in Canada's eastern Arctic has revealed that they are thriving, not declining, because of mankind's interference in the environment.

In the Davis Strait area, a 140,000-square kilometre region, the polar bear population has grown from 850 in the mid-1980s to 2,100 today.

"There aren't just a few more bears. There are a hell of a lot more bears," said Mitch Taylor, a polar bear biologist who has spent 20 years studying the animals.

His findings back the claims of Inuit hunters who have long claimed that they were seeing more bears.

Nice selective work. You realize that the statistics you quoted were from one subpopulation of polar bears, not all polar bears. From the article you cited also comes this:

Bear numbers on the west coast of Hudson's Bay had shrunk by 22 per cent over the past decade, he said.

"They are declining due to global warming and changes in when the ice freezes and melts in Hudson's Bay," he added. He and other scientists in his group are concerned that the retreating ice in the Arctic may pose a danger to future generations of polar bears because of 'habitat loss'. "The critical problem is the sea ice is changing. "We're looking ahead three generations, 30 to 50 years.

"To say that bear populations are growing in one area now is irrelevant."

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OR, we can impose government regulation/control across the entire private sector in some futile attempt to control weather patterns while spending hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

:thumbsup:

You think government's intrusive now? Wait until they start enforcing laws and exorbitant taxes on "climate change".

I'd guess they will be as costly and as intrusive as those pesky CFC or acid rain laws are. Of course, if you paid attention, you'd know these are standard industry points, which of course are invaribly proven wrong:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1995-05-04/news/freon-easy/full

"Freon advocates offered both pragmatic and ideological justifications for the law. The ban would force Arizonans to pay for new air conditioning and refrigeration equipment, or swelter without it, they claimed. And, perhaps more important, the legislation offered yet another great way for Arizona to tell the feds--and, for that matter, the world--to buzz off. "

Can you believe it? AZ actually had to pay for all of that. Obviously, it was too expensive, and the population of AZ correspondingly shrunk because people couldn't afford to bare the burden. Oh, but wait that didn't happen. Somehow AZ managed to pay for it, and despite this incredible burden people continued to move to AZ at an exceedingly rapid rate.

http://www.npg.org/states/az.htm

And those scientist, they love to make up lies so that they can get their research funding:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1995-05-04/news/freon-easy/full

"Then, there was the small matter of science.

The House Environment Committee was told that the scientific theory behind the hole in the ozone is a hoax, manufactured by NASA scientists who want money to conduct research."

Which of course means, the whole thing can't be real and the numbers somehow must be fudged:

http://archive.greenpeace.org/ozone/greenfreeze/moral97/6dupont.html

Du Pont continued the denial game be saying: "No ozone depletion has ever been detected...all ozone depletion figures to date are based on a series of uncertain projections."

Wait, wait, man isn't the problem. It is really natural sources:

http://www.sepp.org/key%20issues/ozone/ozdeplth.html

"Rowland correctly quotes my views on sources of chlorine as of 1988 (11), but does not cite the relevant 1987 papers by Zander et al (12). They found that the total columns of HCl and HF (the major stratospheric reservoir gases for chlorine and fluorine) increased, from 1977 to 1986, at rates of (0.75 + 0.2)% and (8.5 + 1)% per year, respectively. Since HF is ascribed entirely to CFCs, the much lower trend for HCl would lead one to believe that there are large natural sources of stratospheric chlorine that overwhelm the CFC contribution."

Here's the wiki page on the author.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Singer

You'd think they could at least come up w/ an original plan instead of repeatedly recycling the same arguements.

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The troubling part is that things we have been observing have been consistently worse than models predicted. Then they would revise models based on data... then new data would come back and show that models' predictions were again overly optimistic.

hokie4redskins please stop posting angry quotes by people who were, for good reasons, not allowed to voice their opinion in a respectable medium. The stuff you posted has been written by Marc Morano. Look him up.

This thread was never mean to convince people that Global Warming is real. People who are still sceptical about it need much more help than this thread can provide.

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OR, we can impose government regulation/control across the entire private sector in some futile attempt to control weather patterns while spending hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

Well, yeah, the longer we sit here with our eyes shut and our fingers in our ears, the sooner the government is going to force us off our lazy rear end sand make us do what we aren't willing to do ourselves. Or we can just accept that there's no downside to adjusting the living habits of the people in this country, do it ourselves, and the problem will be solved without any need for government intervention.

I miss the hole in the ozone layer. They should knock the dust off that one and trott it back out.

We stopped making it bigger and it was so easy no one even noticed. All those regulations against aerosol cans that it turns out no one has even noticed have stopped the destruction of the ozone layer.

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I miss the hole in the ozone layer. They should knock the dust off that one and trott it back out.

Yeah, isn't the Antarctic ice cap expanding now?

ANd as for the SUV argument, the methane from cattle flatulence and waste produces more greenhouse gases than cars, trucks and planes combined...but you never hear guys like Al Gore or Hollywood celebrities take on farmers. Hmmmm.....

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Yeah, isn't the Antarctic ice cap expanding now?

ANd as for the SUV argument, the methane from cattle flatulence and waste produces more greenhouse gases than cars, trucks and planes combined...but you never hear guys like Al Gore or Hollywood celebrities take on farmers. Hmmmm.....

I'll take on the farmers...

BRING IT!

Image:Joe.JPG

Image:Joe.JPG

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