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Huckabee:'TAKE THIS NATION BACK FOR CHRIST'


JMS

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It's funny. I see a Christian exorting other Christians to stop slacking in their private responsibilities and step up to the plate so government doesn't have to. I don't see anything in there about demanding things from the government or even non-Christians.

In other words, I see an exortation to keep the role of the Church out of the government's hands. Classic seperation of Church and State.

On the other hand, many seem to see this as Huckabee trying to bring the Church into the government.

I think they misunderstood him, but of course the problem for Huckabee is that if enough people read him that way, it doesn't really matter what he actually meant, and this may well hurt him badly with undecideds and moderates.

I think I see your point here, but it seems to me more of an unawareness among Huckabee and his supporters of the fact that many people are not all that religious but are still decent people who do the right thing day in and day out. His observation seems to be more of a call to Christians (or that section of the Christian faith he adhears to) to create a society that reflects them, their beliefs, and values. And that those who do not share his faith could never be trusted to lead as they are automatically part of the problem, not the solution.

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Huckabee scares me. I'm sure he's a great person, but I think there needs to be more of a separation between religion and political decisions. People will vote for him because he's a good Christian and not because he agrees with their views. What scares me the most is the people who believe that God is working through Bush will probably vote for Huckabee as well. Anyone seen these videos? Flippin SCARY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CgvgjfwyPs

http://crackle.com/c/Extreme/Jesus_Camp_Kids_Worshipping_to_a_George_Bush_Pic_/1549123

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It's funny. I see a Christian exorting other Christians to stop slacking in their private responsibilities and step up to the plate so government doesn't have to. I don't see anything in there about demanding things from the government or even non-Christians.

In other words, I see an exortation to keep the role of the Church out of the government's hands. Classic seperation of Church and State.

On the other hand, many seem to see this as Huckabee trying to bring the Church into the government.

I think they misunderstood him, but of course the problem for Huckabee is that if enough people read him that way, it doesn't really matter what he actually meant, and this may well hurt him badly with undecideds and moderates.

QFT.

That's what I was trying to say in post #3. :cheers:

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Huckabee scares me. I'm sure he's a great person, but I think there needs to be more of a separation between religion and political decisions. People will vote for him because he's a good Christian and not because he agrees with their views. What scares me the most is the people who believe that God is working through Bush will probably vote for Huckabee as well. Anyone seen these videos? Flippin SCARY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CgvgjfwyPs

http://crackle.com/c/Extreme/Jesus_Camp_Kids_Worshipping_to_a_George_Bush_Pic_/1549123

I will never understand why people continue to lump a small portion of a population into the entire group. If you think this is an accurate description of Christianity than I understand why it is so difficult for you to comprehend the basis for the speech Huckabee gave.

Techboy hit the nail on the head and you all should be in favor of churches or mosques or temples all getting involved to help the less fortunate instead of Government. It means less taxation for you! For those of you who say you don't mind being taxed for social programs then give that money to a charity so I don't have to be taxed.

It's not a difficult concept.

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I think I see your point here, but it seems to me more of an unawareness among Huckabee and his supporters of the fact that many people are not all that religious but are still decent people who do the right thing day in and day out.

He was speaking to a group of Baptist pastors. Why does he need to address non-Christians in his comments? He wasn't talking to them.

His observation seems to be more of a call to Christians (or that section of the Christian faith he adhears to) to create a society that reflects them, their beliefs, and values.

Right, though I'd note that it seems to be an encouragement to do so through private activity like charitable giving, outreach, and the like.

And that those who do not share his faith could never be trusted to lead as they are automatically part of the problem, not the solution.

I don't recall him saying anything like that. I suspect you are reading things in based upon the attitudes of others who might think that way.

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Well, however much I agree with what he said, and believe it, I think to say it outloud, is commiting political suicide!

Being a believer and running for president requires a talented balancing act so as not to upset those who aren't a fervant as you.

I have always seen people preaching from the street, and yelling, and thought they have alot of inner strength, but also, that they are turning away or off more people than they are swaying.

Which is why I have always adopted a live by example and share when given the opportunity moto.

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I'll bet anyone dollars to doughnuts that if Huckabee were to win the republican primary, he would back off his "christian leader" persona real quick. He's making sure his base is shored up and he's trying to block any uptick Romney might have gotten from his so-called Kennedyesque speech.

But, let's be real about this: there are many millions of people in this country who would like to see America remade in a "biblical" christian image. Some of them even have good friends in high places. Further, many christians will tell you they can't separate their duties to god from their duties to the civil affairs of their community or nation, that christianity is such a part of their very being that it would be impossible to make decisions without their spiritual beliefs playing a role. Further still, it is difficult to deal with people who know they have god on their side, or even worse, that god is directing their actions from On High.

Inevitably, these kinds of speeches tend to come off as exclusivist even if that isn't the intention. As others have pointed out, the Christian is not necessarily Good, or competent, or an effective leader, and that's true for the Agnostic, or Atheist, or Jew, or Muslim. The religious, or nonreligious, leanings of people are not affirmative statements as to their character or their ability to govern, and as such, I think the religious discussions that are taking place in our political sphere are way out of line.

However, and I know I'll get a lot of disagreement about this, if one cannot serve the interests of Country over the interests of God, then they are not fit to serve Country to begin with. Sorry. That's how it works. One cannot reasonably claim that God's interests coincide with the interests of the nation, no matter how hard they try (and they will). We see this proven in the recent debate over Israel. Hardline christian groups, who know they have god on their side, are refusing to consider compromise, are refusing to even entertain the idea of a two-state solution, because, why, dear friends, because the Bible says that god gave that land to the Jews (and not just that land, but I think even parts of Egypt and Lebanon) and that Israeli statehood is a precursor to the End Times (when Jesus comes back to save his loyal subjects and everyone else, including, ironically, the Jews, will be brutally destroyed---God is love, as they say---AS LONG AS YOU WORSHIP HIM!!!!!!!). Now, the person who values Reason and Logic and, yes, even Love, will dismiss that as pure hocus pocus, however, this worldview is shared by many millions of our fellow countrypeople (not to mention people from evil religions all over the world, who also know god is on their side). Most reasonable people would argue, rightly so, that the only possible solution, that considers the good of everybody, is a two-state solution, where both countries acknowledge the rights of the other to exist, and pursues no harmful course of action against them. This is unthinkable for the christian fanatic, who knows they are instruments of the Lord, and have been bid to do His will, and who WILL NOT COMPROMISE.

These are, in my mind, the types of people Huckabee is going after in a speech like this, people who have no place in a civilized, enlightened society(other than as great sources for parody). It's not hard to understand why the idea of "taking the country back for christ" might disturb the nonchristian. (And it ain't just about helping out the poor, either. Americans give more money to charity than any other nation, and a lot of those charities are secular.)

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I will never understand why people continue to lump a small portion of a population into the entire group. If you think this is an accurate description of Christianity than I understand why it is so difficult for you to comprehend the basis for the speech Huckabee gave.

Techboy hit the nail on the head and you all should be in favor of churches or mosques or temples all getting involved to help the less fortunate instead of Government. It means less taxation for you! For those of you who say you don't mind being taxed for social programs then give that money to a charity so I don't have to be taxed.

It's not a difficult concept.

UH. I apparently hurt someone's feelings. I'm all for philanthropy and less greedy people. Why would we not? But we would also have more money in this country if we weren't at war with the devil over in Iraq. I realize not every christian is like the people in that video but Yeah I lumped 'em. Millions of people vote for religous over political beliefs. Brainwashing. Y'all people are crazy. Kill Bin Ladddin and AL kita!

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UH. I apparently hurt someone's feelings. I'm all for philanthropy and less greedy people. Why would we not? But we would also have more money in this country if we weren't at war with the devil over in Iraq. I realize not every christian is like the the people in that video but Yeah I lumped 'em. Millions of people vote for religous over political beliefs. Brainwashing. Y'all people are crazy. Kill Bin Ladddin and AL kita!

Not all christians are like that, but many are, enough of them so that it makes the rest of chrisitans look bad. And their kind of insanity is communicable.

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UH. I apparently hurt someone's feelings. I'm all for philanthropy and less greedy people. Why would we not? But we would also have more money in this country if we weren't at war with the devil over in Iraq. I realize not every christian is like the the people in that video but Yeah I lumped 'em. Millions of people vote for religous over political beliefs. Brainwashing. Y'all people are crazy. Kill Bin Ladddin and AL kita!
Watch out or we'll come get you and steal your kids away and brainwash them. Then we'll all share the purple Kool-Aid together.
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I'll bet anyone dollars to doughnuts that if Huckabee were to win the republican primary, he would back off his "christian leader" persona real quick.

According to the link in the OP ...

"This article was published on Monday, June 8, 1998"

I'd be surprised if he'd make that speech today as a presidential candidate.

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According to the link in the OP ...

"This article was published on Monday, June 8, 1998"

I'd be surprised if he'd make that speech today as a presidential candidate.

I didn't click the link, I just read the article. He still is touting himself as a "christian leader," who doesn't wake up every day "wondering what he believes," but already knows them because an imaginary sky-god told him.

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I didn't click the link, I just read the article. He still is touting himself as a "christian leader," who doesn't wake up every day "wondering what he believes," but already knows them because an imaginary sky-god told him.

I have a problem with him for a different reason, that's still related to his particular faith. He clarified his position in the presidential debate on his lack of belief in evolution by stating explicitly he did not believe "that we are "descendants of a primate".

A POTUS who would place his own personal religious belief ahead of facts presented by his scientific advisors is not fit for making the kind of complex decisions he would be presented with. Romney is also in this boat.

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I have a problem with him for a different reason, that's still related to his particular faith. He clarified his position in the presidential debate on his lack of belief in evolution by stating explicitly he did not believe "that we are "descendants of a primate".

A POTUS who would place his own personal religious belief ahead of facts presented by his scientific advisors is not fit for making the kind of complex decisions he would be presented with. Romney is also in this boat.

You won't get any argument from me.

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According to the link in the OP ...

"This article was published on Monday, June 8, 1998"

I'd be surprised if he'd make that speech today as a presidential candidate.

I just noticed that too. That being said, this wasn't a speach given by Huckabee recently and is a 10 year old speach dug up to smear him in the eyes of moderates. So Huckabee didn't jump the shark with this one.

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I have a problem with him for a different reason, that's still related to his particular faith. He clarified his position in the presidential debate on his lack of belief in evolution by stating explicitly he did not believe "that we are "descendants of a primate".

A POTUS who would place his own personal religious belief ahead of facts presented by his scientific advisors is not fit for making the kind of complex decisions he would be presented with. Romney is also in this boat.

Technically evolution doesn't claim we are decendent from apes. Technically evolution claims we have a long extinct common ancestor.

Obviously Huckabee's failure to subscribe to Evolution isn't a show stopper. We currently have three supreme court justices (Maybe four), a good portion of the senate and congress and two of our last five Presidents who didn't subscribe to Evolution. ( Reagan, Bush II ).

I'm not really backing huckabee cause he didn't do a very good job as govoner of Arkansas, and I've swarn off Republicans for at least the next two Presidential terms until all the yes men who failed to stand up to Bush leave office.

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I don't recall him saying anything like that. I suspect you are reading things in based upon the attitudes of others who might think that way.

Well yes of course I rerad something into it. I would be a rather poor reader if I did not.

What I get from this speech, admitedly many years old, is the same tone and attatude I have seen from Huckabee during the early stage of this campaign and from the second Bush administration for almost a decade.. A sharp artifical division between himself and all who don't agree with he and his fellow minded friends. The Christian conservative have every right to have their vision of the country and the world, but I don't like the us-against-them attatude. "You're not a true Christian if...... you must hate America if.... You are just anti-Christian if.....

This country is a diverse and dynamic one, and limiting a vision to the avowed values of a few is not a solid way to govern.

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What IF (and I'm not necessarily saying its true right now) they are the overwhelming majority instead of the few?

I think they are actually a large minority. A well organized and united minority, and one which will not question or oppose members of its own.

That said IF they are the majority they will get to call most of the shots. I won't say all the decisions will be their and theirs alone, because that's not the way our government is set up. Minority interests always get some say in how things are run and decided.

In my America there would always be room for Huckabee and his fellow Christian Conservatives. Would there be a place for me? For my friends who are gay? For parents who believe in evolution? For people who don't believe in god or organized religion? For people who just flat out disagree?

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What IF (and I'm not necessarily saying its true right now) they are the overwhelming majority instead of the few?

I would say that this is a representative republic designed to represent the views of all not the views of the majority. So, it stands to reason that someone running for public office should be elected based on their ability to represent all constituents, not just those who elected them, and certainly not just those who share the same religious faith.

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