Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

COLLINS red zone = easy, JC red zone = impossible. Why?


PierceType

Recommended Posts

First of all, this isn't a popularity contest. Secondly, that deteriorating WR corps and ramshackle oline looked capable when Collins took the field. JC is our biggest weak link on offense.

1. Popularity contest? Have you heard of things like peer review and acceptance of opinions within a relative community? The fact that you haven't speaks volume as to the merits of your point.

2. Did you understand the point about getting warmed up? Consistent with what happened with Collins also occurred with Griese.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard somebody on TV say this morning that Collins was reading the defense as he dropped back, so that when he stopped, he already knew where he was going to throw.

It makes a lot of sense.

Also, if you look at how quickly Collins throws, it seems that Saunders offense is pr predicated on the defense not being able to react quickly enough (because of the formation and motions).

I think this advantage vanishes, as play develops, and the quarterback is then forced to rely on pure athleticism of the wide receivers and the quarterback.

To make Saunders offense work, Jason has to get faster.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was just one game, but...I think maybe TC has a quicker release for the short routes that are most effective in the red zone. JC has a lot more going for him as far as throwing the ball deep, but so much of Saunders' O depends on timing that I think he is still struggling on a short field.

I think this is right. JC's release takes way too long. By the time he sees the opening in the short routes he wants, winds up, and throws he's too late. You may have noticed that he's better at 3rd and longs than anything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it was the Dallas game where they had a stat that showed that the 'skins were actually very successful in the red zone to that point in the season. Campbell had some ridiculously high QB rating for that area of the field, consistantly getting a TD or working the team in to FG range. Suddenly, that has stopped and we are missing major opportunities with fumbles etc. JC issues apart (the slow release has been discussed for a long time) we still have real problems with WR's. JC threw an on-the-money ball on the very first play against Chicago only for ARE to run a poor route and miss a pass that should have been taken in stride for a big gain. Our run game is shocking right now. Questionable coaching...sorry, you have heard this lots of times before!

It says a lot about the history of this team that suddenly fans think a back-up Messiah has arrived in the 2nd quarter of a home game against a poor Chicago team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me make it easy for the OP:

It is like comparing my 2 year old to my 9 year old. Who has more experience???

JC is trying to hard in the red zone cause he has alot on his plate. TC doesn't and therefore is more calm. This is why I tell my kids to just relax and do well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We need to see some teams game plan for Collins. Might be a whole different story then.

Its hard to gameplan against a guy who was getting rid of the football and making his reads alot quicker than Campbell. What do you do diffrent?The opponents were already trying to rush the passer as fast as they could.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was just one game, but...I think maybe TC has a quicker release for the short routes that are most effective in the red zone. JC has a lot more going for him as far as throwing the ball deep, but so much of Saunders' O depends on timing that I think he is still struggling on a short field.

interesting delusion you have going for yourself.

When has Jason had even one deep ball touchdown this season. All I remember seeing are a bunch of overthrows over the heads of wide open receivers. Can you explain what you mean by he has a lot more going for him?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For weeks we have seen JC move the team up and down the field with ease only to throw a disastrous pick, fumble or just fizzle in the red zone.

One would assume this wasn't JC's fault - just bad, overly conservative play-calling (and short receivers).

Then Collins comes in and we blow right into the end zone with ease.

So which is it?

1. JC is a choke-meister in the red zone and just doesn't 'see' what is open, tenses up and over-throws wide open receivers?

2. They called different and better plays for Collins?

3. Collins is just a better red zone QB.

4. None of the above. Collins stinks - he just got lucky.

Comfort level.

Collins has been to many games in the NFL, whether blogging on the sidelines (:D) or actually in the game. He's been in Saunders offense for 7+ years. Campbell has only been in the league for 2+.

Campbell will be fine when he gets healthy. I'm not concerned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really, we need to throw out Brady and Manning who are two of the greatest QBs of all time. Romo sits to pee is in his 5th year in the NFL, no matter how many starts he's had (he's 27). Your best comparison is Derek Anderson, since he was drafted the same year as Campbell. But then, we're down to one example.

I will admit I'm a bit concerned with Campbell at this point. I remember how excited we all got with Ramsey, and then he just didn't go anywhere after some initial promise. But I have seen some definite progress from Campbell this year. I think we need to give him next year before we pass final judgment. If he looks the same next year, I'd be ready to draft another QB.

I completely agree. I really think we need to give this kid a chance. He has awesome potential. Don't get me wrong, TC played a great game....well, a great half....and we surely can't be ready to give JC the boot just b/c TC came in and got the job done.

I think that people are quick to hold QB's responsible for all of their team's problems. Sometimes deservingly, but sometimes not. There are SO many factors that come into play this season including: injuries, ST, bad play calling, among many others, so we shouldn't be so quick to discount JC. He's young, inexperienced, and has been through a LOT this season, as the rest of the team has. I think that the team deserves props for having the heart to want to get on the field and win despite all they've been through.

IMO, if anyone is to blame, it is the coaching staff. The bad play calling and pessimistic attitude has been a key factor in why the TEAM (not just JC) has perfomed as they have.

Give JC a chance. In time, he'll be a great QB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was terrified when TC came into the game, I almost wanted to see a Brunell visit to the field. It seemed after the first two possessions he settled down. With TC, it's all about the O line. If they can give him a pocket, he will be fine. Again, this IS a BACKUP. We DO NOT WANT TO BE LIKE PHILLY HERE, NO QB CONTROVERSY!!!!!!!!!!

JC is our starter, he has unlimited potential, we are blessed with a solid QB for once. Be thankful our BACKUP came in and did what he is paid to do!!!!!!!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why are we comparing? Campbell is not coming back soon, and we need a QB to run our offense for the next couple of games.

If you must compare, here are the basics I saw:

Campbell has youth, talent, a strong arm, decent wheels, and gets better with each game.

Collins has a long-tenured veteran's experience, instinctive knowledge of the Saunders offense, and an accurate arm for the short/medium passing game.

Campbell is intended as the Redskins QB for at least the next couple of seasons.

Collins is the Redskins QB for about the next 4 games.

Folks, this isn't about Collins taking Campbells QB position. This is about the Redskins fighting to make the playoffs and salvage something from one of their hardest seasons ever. From a human drama perspective, this is about a Collins finally getting his shot after playing perennial backup behind several different starting QBs who were very good.

Maybe we should stop stop comparing and instead just start backing Collins and hoping that he can play a part in at least 3 more Redskin victories this regular season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its hard to gameplan against a guy who was getting rid of the football and making his reads alot quicker than Campbell. What do you do diffrent?The opponents were already trying to rush the passer as fast as they could.

Exactly. This is the whole point of having Al Saunder's offense.

It is possible that TC will flop against the Giants. But it is unlikely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a healthy Randle El and Sellers, and mistakes by the Bears helped a lot.

The first TD came directly off a Griese interception, so I think we caught the defense off guard. Those kind of play-action throws to a TE over the middle are the kind of touchdown Campbell has actually been pretty good at this year, and that's why Cooley leads the team in TD's. Yoder coming up with that ball was a pleasant surprise.

When we were winning earlier in the season, Randle El seemed to pick up a lot of the tough first downs, and he was back doing it last night. That has been there for both Campbell and Collins.

Also, one of our touchdowns was the fullback dive with Sellers, which is a play we couldn't run for the past few weeks.

And honestly, the Bears defense was just bad ... when we had 8 guys protecting and 2 guys running routes, Moss and Randle El would still get open. Collins played well, but it's hard to draw big conclusions from one game.

thanks for bringing up that the team capitalized on a turnover to start the scoring. the screen to portis helped too. if collins can help the team win, ok with me. he just get to retire this off season or ride the pine next year if he makes the team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All these knee jerk reactions from just two and one half quarters of a regular season football game?

With Jason Campbell, I don't know what you people want. He just completed his first series of games as a starter. The kid has got a lot of potential, but he's still got some mental issues to shake off. You know, much like LaRon Landry? Oh, and dare I say, also a lot like our lost beloved safety who eventually overcame them? Campbell does not have adequate experience at this point in his career, and unfortunately, he will have to wait until next season to get some more of it.

It would be nice if people just allowed Jason to make some mistakes so that he can learn from them. While we all want to win now, now, now, and see the post-season, we can't have a franchise quarterback who doesn't first learn to walk before he can fly. Impatience was never a virtue.

As for Todd Collins, he has been a career bench warmer for a reason. That's not a knock on him. I mean, bench warmers have their value. If the team with him at the helm can get us another win next week, that would be great. Just don't expect him to replace JC. That's NOT going to happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its hard to gameplan against a guy who was getting rid of the football and making his reads alot quicker than Campbell. What do you do diffrent?The opponents were already trying to rush the passer as fast as they could.

Wow? I am sure that 32 GMS don't know this :doh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pre snap reads and decisiveness. Thats what Collins had, very difficult to defend.

the bears dont have a good secondary, arch plays for the bears. if he can go to nj and not be running (slowly) for his life, and get the ball out and win. great. at the end of the season, he is riding the pine, retires, etc...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...