COLLINS red zone = easy, JC red zone = impossible. Why?

[Ernie5]

Right now, Collins is more decisive and gets the ball out a little quicker. The slight difference in timing makes all the difference. Campbell can learn from this and be dominant, but it all takes time -- Collins is 11 years older than Campbell and knows the system almost as well as Al Saunders.

[Henry]

The problem with Collins is that he just doesn't have the arm. Once defenses make adjustments to that I think his production will go down. Campbell may be more mistake-prone but he keeps defenses honest with his ability to stretch the field.

Same arguement as Brunell vs. Campbell actually. I think Collins will be ok for the last few games simply because he knows what he's doing, but I doubt he'll be a world-beater. He just doesn't have the tools for that.

[goldenster95]

Up until a few weeks ago, Campbell was money in the red zone. I believe his rating was something like 120 and he had TD/INT ratio of 7/0. Now, that has changed as of late (which is sad), but to say that he fizzles in the red zone is just another part of the moronic sentiment on this board that measures someone's worth based on flashes in the pan and short spurts of (non)performance.

[chow184]

todd collins is a 13th year veteran and this is his 7th year in Saunders offense,he was brought here to help teach it to everyone. I'd be surprised if he didn't know where the holes in the defense are in certain plays.

not every QB comes out playing like a HoFer,which apperantly JC should. Carson Palmer looked mediocre in his 1st year and he was sat for an entire season like JC was. Palmer had 18TD's and 18 interceptions to go with them.

jason's still developing,guys like tom brady and tony Romo sits to pee are special incidents where QB's have had immediate success without playing in the NFL before it's rare.but apparently we want chuck any QB in the garbage bin if he can't come out and play like peyton manning or one of the aforementioned two.

[Silencer6091]

You're looking at this all wrong. If TC gets lit up next week, then it proves what we already know: he is a backup.

This isn't about showing that TC is the answer at QB or that he is good.

What you need to realize is that TC showed the problem is with the QB play on this team because when we change that, our offense looked the best it has looked.

This isn't about showing that TC is good. This is about how this is proof that JC has been the problem because a bad backup looked better for a half than JC has looked the last 18 games or whatever.

Yea, it isn't showing that TC is the answer at QB...but it isn't fair to say that after one half of play he has proven that Campbell was the problem...pahhhhleeeasssee....

[jrfriedm]

Collins did great last night, and hopefully he will be able to play like that for the rest of the season, but Campbell is the future of the team. Jason has a lot of learning to do still, and that is understandable, but that does not mean that he a lesser QB than Todd Collins

Collins also knows this offense better than anybody currently playing in the league right now. He knows where the receivers are going to be even before they think about making their breaks/cuts, the defenders don't have a chance, and that is why he was so effective. This will all come in time with Jason.

[Fan since a Fetus]

todd collins is a 13th year veteran and this is his 7th year in Saunders offense,he was brought here to help teach it to everyone. I'd be surprised if he didn't know where the holes in the defense are in certain plays.

not every QB comes out playing like a HoFer,which apperantly JC should. Carson Palmer looked mediocre in his 1st year and he was sat for an entire season like JC was. Palmer had 18TD's and 18 interceptions to go with them.

jason's still developing,guys like tom brady and tony Romo sits to pee are special incidents where QB's have had immediate success without playing in the NFL before it's rare.but apparently we want chuck any QB in the garbage bin if he can't come out and play like peyton manning or one of the aforementioned two.

I agree with everything you said! This guy has been in this system for years. He should know where everybody is at any given time. He should know the offense better than JC, and if he didn't he probably would not be in the NFL anymore.

I still want JC back so he can continue to learn and have a truely break out season next year. Hopefully he will return for the playoffs and gain some very valuable experience.

[voicekiller]

play calling

[voicekiller]

Collins did great last night, and hopefully he will be able to play like that for the rest of the season, but Campbell is the future of the team. Jason has a lot of learning to do still, and that is understandable, but that does not mean that he a lesser QB than Todd Collins

Collins also knows this offense better than anybody currently playing in the league right now. He knows where the receivers are going to be even before they think about making their breaks/cuts, the defenders don't have a chance, and that is why he was so effective. This will all come in time with Jason.

Agree 100% :applause::applause::applause:

[21KO]

Too early to tell, but I guarantee you JC throws behind Betts on that TD. Collins put a beautiful touch on that ball.

I love JC, but TC looked very good!

[Monk4HOF]

I agree with a few of the posts on here. I like to think that what happened last night is bc TC is so experienced in the offense and AS gave him a longer leash. Overall, I think this could be great for JC. He will get to see someone who knows the offense inside and out get to use it in game situations. I just hope JCs injury is not very serious and he comes back fully healthy.

[Henry]

Up until a few weeks ago, Campbell was money in the red zone. I believe his rating was something like 120 and he had TD/INT ratio of 7/0. Now, that has changed as of late (which is sad), but to say that he fizzles in the red zone is just another part of the moronic sentiment on this board that measures someone's worth based on flashes in the pan and short spurts of (non)performance.

It's not his red-zone performance. It's about late-game drives when the game is on the line. Campbell isn't really producing in those specific situations. There are many strong aspects of Campbell's play, but getting a score when your team absolutely, positively must isn't one of them. That's all. That Collins was able to continue playing at a high level during the crucial fourth quarter drive tells me that it might not be the surrounding talent or the scheme or whatever else. It might actually be Campbell that's having a problem focusing at the end of games.

Or it may have just been a fluke. We'll find out soon enough.

[kimrobyn]

Knowledge of the offense and a good understanding of NFL defenses

Do not underestimate how smart TC is. But he is a backup and physically doesn't bring it

JC still needs to improve on recognizing the defense, and getting through his reads quickly. Maybe watching TC do it for a few weeks will be helpful for JC

:notworthy :applause: :applause: My thoughts EXACTLY!

[goldenster95]

It's not his red-zone performance. It's about late-game drives when the game is on the line. Campbell isn't really producing in those specific situations. There are many strong aspects of Campbell's play, but getting a score when your team absolutely, positively must isn't one of them. That's all. That Collins was able to continue playing at a high level during the crucial fourth quarter drive tells me that it might not be the surrounding talent or the scheme or whatever else. It might actually be Campbell that's having a problem focusing at the end of games.

Or it may have just been a fluke. We'll find out soon enough.

Yes, good points. I was a responding to the OP which I thought took issue with his red-zone performance in general.

Jason will learn all this in time.

[Ghost of]

JC is still very inexperienced and learning to play in the NFL. I think we all know he is not complete right now. Other than Brady every QB I have seen takes a while to get used to live starting action in the NFL. The only way JC will improve is to play through the situations, and from experience learn what to expect and how to succeed.

Brady, Manning, Derek Anderson, Romo sits to pee.

The list of players who showed something after a year's worth of starts in the same system is just as high, perhaps higher than the list of guys who took forever.

[Chris Worthy]

1. O-line. Where was that pocket when Jason was playing??

2. Exp. TC knows the scheme better than anyone else on the team. Cooley gave a nice sound bite yesterday saying that the ball was in the air before he even turned around.

Mike Sellers on the Comcast post game also said that TC can do the checkdowns much quicker than Jason. sum that up with exp.

3. Gameplan. The Bears didnt expect TC to play and it showed last night. The Giants will be able to prepare for Todd so ask this one again next week.

4. Support for the QB: Gibbs in his press conf. said he was more confident with Todd to make more "Risky" throws. Was that an underline comment on Jason and his issues with trusting young guys vs. Vets? Well we are talking about Gibbs on this one so you make the judge.

5.Playcalling. Kind of goes with number 4 but the protection scheme was different when Todd was out there. looked night and day. Aslo people was catching the ball. You can Blame Jason with having too much pepper on the ball and Todd having the right touch on it.

[BlueHenSkins]

I think Collins did a really good job as QB. I didn't feel like he was being rushed to pass or anything. Everytime Campbell is in there it seems like every throw is rushed. Maybe TC can think faster under pressure. One thing that worries me about Todd Collins is his arm strength. It seemed like his throws had no "zip" to them. anyone else notice that?

[DjTj]

It's not his red-zone performance. It's about late-game drives when the game is on the line. Campbell isn't really producing in those specific situations. There are many strong aspects of Campbell's play, but getting a score when your team absolutely, positively must isn't one of them. That's all. That Collins was able to continue playing at a high level during the crucial fourth quarter drive tells me that it might not be the surrounding talent or the scheme or whatever else. It might actually be Campbell that's having a problem focusing at the end of games.

Or it may have just been a fluke. We'll find out soon enough.

This kind of argument just sounds fluky, and I think we're all trying to see something that isn't really there based on one good drive and one great throw to Ladell Betts on a poorly executed zone blitz by the Bears.

Collins didn't lead us to a come-from-behind victory against difficult odds. On the drive just prior to that, we stalled at the 5-yard line and kicked a field goal to only go up by 7. The Bears had an opportunity to tie the game but Cornelius Griffin made a great play. This was a game where the defense was able to close and there was less pressure on the offense.

How will Collins be in a game when we absolutely need him to score at the end? I don't think we know that yet...

[Hooper]

Did Todd's performance last night make any of the older fans remember Stan Humphries? I remember how well he played as a backup when called on...

Stan was awesome. Dude had a gut!

[CHUBAKAH]

Answer = The bears :doh:

Agreed

[SnyderMustGo]

1. O-line. Where was that pocket when Jason was playing??

It was the same protection JC has.

The difference is that JC (possibly due to his size) takes longer to get set up to throw. Also, JC drops back too far sometimes which makes it harder for the line to make a clean pocket.

JC takes longer to set up, but he also takes longer to make his decision on where to go. Moreover, his release is slower.

Put the stop watch on it. From snap to relase, TC is faster which means the pocket doesn't have to be held longer.

It would take an absolute fool to think that our O-line all of the sudden just started blocking better for no identifiable reason.

[Uno Boss]

todd collins is a 13th year veteran and this is his 7th year in Saunders offense,he was brought here to help teach it to everyone. I'd be surprised if he didn't know where the holes in the defense are in certain plays.

not every QB comes out playing like a HoFer,which apperantly JC should. Carson Palmer looked mediocre in his 1st year and he was sat for an entire season like JC was. Palmer had 18TD's and 18 interceptions to go with them.

jason's still developing,guys like tom brady and tony Romo sits to pee are special incidents where QB's have had immediate success without playing in the NFL before it's rare.but apparently we want chuck any QB in the garbage bin if he can't come out and play like peyton manning or one of the aforementioned two.

man get out of here with that logic and common sense nobody wants to read that...especially from a 19 year old..

Maybe you should act like an adult and make knee jerk assesments based on hidden perssonal feelings that you have been harboring inside all season. :laugh:

[DjTj]

It would take an absolute fool to think that our O-line all of the sudden just started blocking better for no identifiable reason.

I think the o-line did start blocking better after halftime ... I'm not sure if it was an adjustment or anything, but I think we left Cooley into block a bit more, and we ran more screens.

In the first half, Campbell was sacked and dislocated his kneecap, Collins was sacked and fumbled ... there was barely any pressure the second half. I think the coaches definitely fixed something.

[Bacon]

The problem with Collins is that he just doesn't have the arm. Once defenses make adjustments to that I think his production will go down. Campbell may be more mistake-prone but he keeps defenses honest with his ability to stretch the field.

Same arguement as Brunell vs. Campbell actually. I think Collins will be ok for the last few games simply because he knows what he's doing, but I doubt he'll be a world-beater. He just doesn't have the tools for that.

:applause:

[waterwagen]

Brady, Manning, Derek Anderson, Romo sits to pee.

The list of players who showed something after a year's worth of starts in the same system is just as high, perhaps higher than the list of guys who took forever.

Really, we need to throw out Brady and Manning who are two of the greatest QBs of all time. Romo sits to pee is in his 5th year in the NFL, no matter how many starts he's had (he's 27). Your best comparison is Derek Anderson, since he was drafted the same year as Campbell. But then, we're down to one example.

I will admit I'm a bit concerned with Campbell at this point. I remember how excited we all got with Ramsey, and then he just didn't go anywhere after some initial promise. But I have seen some definite progress from Campbell this year. I think we need to give him next year before we pass final judgment. If he looks the same next year, I'd be ready to draft another QB.