COLLINS red zone = easy, JC red zone = impossible. Why?

[SnyderMustGo]

But I have seen some definite progress from Campbell this year.

In all seriousness, I would like to hear how JC has been progressing because I just don't see it. He seems to still overthrow and throw behind WRs. He doesn't seem to be hitting WRs in stride. He still has problems with his deep ball. He doesn't seem to read defenses any better.

In fact, in many respets, I see him regressing. The fumbling is bad. He seems to turn it over much more now than he did last year. He seems less poised and seems to be choking more late in games. He seems to completely forget what to do in the redzone.

So in all seriousness, can you give me areas and examples where you think he is "definitely progressing"?

[chow184]

I think the o-line did start blocking better after halftime ... I'm not sure if it was an adjustment or anything, but I think we left Cooley into block a bit more, and we ran more screens.

In the first half, Campbell was sacked and dislocated his kneecap, Collins was sacked and fumbled ... there was barely any pressure the second half. I think the coaches definitely fixed something.

the difference between the 1st half was campbell's release isn't fast yet, so when he gets back he needs to throw the ball on his final step of the dropback. collins did this. thus it looks like the O-line blocked better

HOWEVER on certain plays collins had forever and a day to throw thats somthing the O-line didn't do for jason in the first half.

on a 3step drop the ball needs to come out immediately,jason's release isn't leftwich bad,but it's far from being fast.

In all seriousness, I would like to hear how JC has been progressing because I just don't see it. He seems to still overthrow and throw behind WRs. He doesn't seem to be hitting WRs in stride. He still has problems with his deep ball. He doesn't seem to read defenses any better.

In fact, in many respets, I see him regressing. The fumbling is bad. He seems to turn it over much more now than he did last year. He seems less poised and seems to be choking more late in games. He seems to completely forget what to do in the redzone.

So in all seriousness, can you give me areas and examples where you think he is "definitely progressing"?

last year protection was never a problem,and JC had a consistent ground game. and he did o.k.

this season the QB rating is similiar but take away the good ground game and say campbell gets hit on every dropback and you'd be a fool to say campbell didn't carry the offense in the last 4 game,eagles/boys/bucs/bills.

he made the fatal play in the boys&bucs game,but he carried the offense and gave the team a chance to win.

from a guy that had a great ground game to having nothing and being able to carry the team I'd call that growth. how much?

I don't know, Campbells playing in an offense without a full deck of cards.

[PigSkinRodeo]

collin did well last night but the difference is the o line didnt fold on collins it folds when campbell is in.. Which to me is sad.. JC can make the plays but when you have no o line protection what do you do.. That why collins did so well.. O line need to get healthy and better.. Bottom line that goes to all you trade portis people.. Portis can't run portis can't do this.. Give me a break.. How can you have a great QB OR RB with no protection.. need a o line that can help.. Thats the truth.. Period :2cents:

[Henry]

This kind of argument just sounds fluky, and I think we're all trying to see something that isn't really there based on one good drive and one great throw to Ladell Betts on a poorly executed zone blitz by the Bears.

Collins didn't lead us to a come-from-behind victory against difficult odds. On the drive just prior to that, we stalled at the 5-yard line and kicked a field goal to only go up by 7. The Bears had an opportunity to tie the game but Cornelius Griffin made a great play. This was a game where the defense was able to close and there was less pressure on the offense.

How will Collins be in a game when we absolutely need him to score at the end? I don't think we know that yet...

I don't think I've said anywhere in this thread that Collins is the second coming of Joe Montana. What I said wasn't based on one good drive. It was based on Campbell's performance in the Philly game, in the Dallas game, in the Bucs game, and in the Bills game, when he had opportunities to put the game away or take the lead late in each game and failed to do so. Every one of those games. Those four straight examples, followed by a fifth of the team actually producing in the clutch with a different QB led me to see what I saw.

I'm not one of those bashers who comes out and says Campbell's no good and can't play or anything silly like that. I want him to be our starter and get better and be the franchise QB we all hope he is. But I have noticed our offense's consistant inability to keep pace with the opposition in the fourth quarter this year. Maybe it was a coincidence that that inability dissappeared last night. Then again, maybe not.

[taylorcoreskin]

I've said it once, I'll say it again. Timing in the passing game is a must in the redzone. This is JC's biggest weakness, yet our biggest need in Saunders' offense. JC is not the right fit for Saunders' offense. I've never seen our offense as explosive as it was in one half of football against the Bears - and JC's played horrific defenses like those of the Jets, Bills and Cardinals. JC was awful when he was in the Bears game. 10/16 for 100 yards. 6.3 yard average! That's terrible. Collins comes in and goes 15/20 for 224 yards with 2 td passes and no interceptons. An average of 11.2. 11.2!!!! We got 5 more yards per pass play with Todd Collins than we did with JC, who is the starting quaterback. 5 more yards per pass play! That's huge! Not to mention JC completed 63% of his passes against the Bears; Todd goes in and completes 75%, against the same defense, with the same offensive personnel (including that crap oline who was letting JC get knocked around in the first half!). JC is 24th in yards per pass play with 6.5 for the season, on a team that's 9th in pass attempts!!! He isn't good for our offense, if a backup can come in and complete 12% more passes and get 5 more yards per pass play, JC WAS A MISTAKE!

[Mooka]

Chicago did a jailhouse blitz on the right side and Collins picked it up, great job.

Not really sure how that says anything about JC.

[dexter's manley]

Campbell has not demonstrated the ability to think and make clear decisions under pressure. Some of that comes with experience, which Collins has (in age, if not game time) - I think the time off will be good for Campbell, especially if he watches the way Collins handles this offense over the last three games and LEARNS.

If he does, he'll come back next year ready to run this system, which he simply could not do this season. Say what you will about coaching, but at least a couple of the bad losses we took this season lie at the feet of Campbell.

I hope he watches closely while he's out.

[taylorcoreskin]

I think the o-line did start blocking better after halftime ... I'm not sure if it was an adjustment or anything, but I think we left Cooley into block a bit more, and we ran more screens.

In the first half, Campbell was sacked and dislocated his kneecap, Collins was sacked and fumbled ... there was barely any pressure the second half. I think the coaches definitely fixed something.

We flew the pats oline down to the game to come pass protect for todd at halftime. :doh:

[Peregrine]

Because JC is a young QB. How is it so hard to understand this simple concept? Second, why the hell would someone assume that JCs interceptions werent his fault? Everyone assumed they were his fault, just some of the more reasonable people know, this is what young QB's do. Look at every single first day drafted QB in the past 3 years, and you tell ME, whos dominating in TD to INT ratio. Zero. The best one, is 1 above JC.

As ive said before, and ill say again, theres one last hurdle JC has to overcome on his way to becoming a great NFL QB, and thats finishing a game. Leading that game winning drive, or game clinching drive for a TD is the one thing that so far, he hasnt done. One he gets over that hurdle, its all over for opposing NFL defenses.

[21 coming to]

I think a lot of it has to do with the timing. I found it to be truly striking, watching Collins fall back - five steps, pause for half a beat, then throw. It looked like something was clicking. Is that what the famous Saunders offense is supposed to look like?

Campbell has often looked tentative, hasn't he? Lots of jumping around in the pocket as if he can't make up his mind. I heard somebody on TV say this morning that Collins was reading the defense as he dropped back, so that when he stopped, he already knew where he was going to throw. That accounts for the quick release.

I guess we'll see how he does in the next few games. He did a fantastic job on Thursday, before a national audience, really coming through like a professional backup is supposed to. But now the pressure is on, with playoffs hopes on the line. He'll be tested.

Hail to the Redskins!

[Redskins4ever]

Collins has that experience. He knows where the routes are going and where the spots are to hit the right target. With Jason, he sees what's down field but seems unsure of himself when to let it go. Collins seems more sure of himself. It's just that one QB is less or more experienced than the other.

[LilSkinnette]

JC still needs to improve on recognizing the defense, and getting through his reads quickly. Maybe watching TC do it for a few weeks will be helpful for JC

Totally agree. This is pretty much what BMitch said last night. While #17 is recouping he can learn by watching #15.

[Skinsfor4]

Collins is like a coach who can play QB,and thats why.Dude knows that system as good as Al and all the details to make it work.

[eagleskins]

How long are the excuses going to go on about Campbell being young? The guy is at the end of his third year. Some other young QBs: Big Ben, Derek Anderson, Romo sits to pee, Cutler, Rivers, Palmer, Eli.

[taylorcoreskin]

How long are the excuses going to go on about Campbell being young? The guy is at the end of his third year. Some other young QBs: Big Ben, Derek Anderson, Romo sits to pee, Cutler, Rivers, Palmer, Eli.

Well, we did sacrifice a hell of a lot to get JC. They'll come around in time... I hope.

[Hardcoreskinsfan]

Yup. Three quarters proves beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Why wait for the Christmas rush? Let's just trade Campbell now.

HECK YEAH!! Thats the best idea I've seen on this board yet!

[taylorcoreskin]

Yup. Three quarters proves beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Why wait for the Christmas rush? Let's just trade Campbell now.

Probably a better idea than you may think. Remember passing on a first round draft choice for Ramsey? Remember looking back and saying, ****, we should have traded him before he was exposed as a bust. Might very well be the same case for JC.

[Muzzah]

5. Collins has been in the system for years and years and knows where everyone is supposed to be at all times.

Cant expect someone to know a dictionary front to back in his first full year as a starter. Give him time, he'll mature.

[goldenster95]

Probably a better idea than you may think. Remember passing on a first round draft choice for Ramsey? Remember looking back and saying, ****, we should have traded him before he was exposed as a bust. Might very well be the same case for JC.

Got anybody else other than people on this board that would agree with you? Also, why was Campbell doing so well at the beginning of the season in the red zone? At one point in time, he was the league leader in QB rating in the red zone.

[goldenster95]

I think the o-line did start blocking better after halftime ... I'm not sure if it was an adjustment or anything, but I think we left Cooley into block a bit more, and we ran more screens.

In the first half, Campbell was sacked and dislocated his kneecap, Collins was sacked and fumbled ... there was barely any pressure the second half. I think the coaches definitely fixed something.

How about the fact that the o-line and the offense got warmed up from the bitter cold weather? Same thing happened with the Bears offense.

Even Deion could see that.

[taylorcoreskin]

How about the fact that the o-line and the offense got warmed up from the bitter cold weather? Same thing happened with the Bears offense.

Even Deion could see that.

Nah, we just flew down the pats oline and put them in skins jerseys.

[taylorcoreskin]

Got anybody else other than people on this board that would agree with you? Also, why was Campbell doing so well at the beginning of the season in the red zone? At one point in time, he was the league leader in QB rating in the red zone.

Maybe he's the one that's been figured out. Chicago kept loading the box when JC was in the game.

[goldenster95]

Maybe he's the one that's been figured out. Chicago kept loading the box when JC was in the game.

Ummm, maybe it's because of things like a ramshackle o-line that's gotten worse as the year's gone on, a deteriorating WR corps, and no running game.

Like I said, got anybody else that agrees with you?

[goldenster95]

Nah, we just flew down the pats oline and put them in skins jerseys.

About as intelligent as the threadbare logic in your threads.

Next.

[taylorcoreskin]

Ummm, maybe it's because of things like a ramshackle o-line that's gotten worse as the year's gone on, a deteriorating WR corps, and no running game.

Like I said, got anybody else that agrees with you?

First of all, this isn't a popularity contest. Secondly, that deteriorating WR corps and ramshackle oline looked capable when Collins took the field. JC is our biggest weak link on offense.