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COLLINS red zone = easy, JC red zone = impossible. Why?


PierceType

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For weeks we have seen JC move the team up and down the field with ease only to throw a disastrous pick, fumble or just fizzle in the red zone.

One would assume this wasn't JC's fault - just bad, overly conservative play-calling (and short receivers).

Then Collins comes in and we blow right into the end zone with ease.

So which is it?

1. JC is a choke-meister in the red zone and just doesn't 'see' what is open, tenses up and over-throws wide open receivers?

2. They called different and better plays for Collins?

3. Collins is just a better red zone QB.

4. None of the above. Collins stinks - he just got lucky.

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one of the hardest things for a young QB is running the offense in the redzone. everything is so jumbled up. you'd think that campbell is gonna learn and everything is gonna slow down for him in the red zone eventually. collins' 17 or so years in the league helps him out.

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It was just one game, but...I think maybe TC has a quicker release for the short routes that are most effective in the red zone. JC has a lot more going for him as far as throwing the ball deep, but so much of Saunders' O depends on timing that I think he is still struggling on a short field.

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It was one game... If Collins does this for the rest of the season, then we'll worry about it.

This is the correct answer. It's too early to lay blame, although Collins most definitely played a great game and my gut feeling is Campbell would not have won it for us.

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We need to see some teams game plan for Collins. Might be a whole different story then.

You're looking at this all wrong. If TC gets lit up next week, then it proves what we already know: he is a backup.

This isn't about showing that TC is the answer at QB or that he is good.

What you need to realize is that TC showed the problem is with the QB play on this team because when we change that, our offense looked the best it has looked.

This isn't about showing that TC is good. This is about how this is proof that JC has been the problem because a bad backup looked better for a half than JC has looked the last 18 games or whatever.

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I think you will see teams start playing short zones on Collins and trying to force him to throw longer routes. That's when his arm might become an issue. I think the short passes to the backs and the receivers will be gone next week.

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You're looking at this all wrong. If TC gets lit up next week, then it proves what we already know: he is a backup.

This isn't about showing that TC is the answer at QB or that he is good.

What you need to realize is that TC showed the problem is with the QB play on this team because when we change that, our offense looked the best it has looked.

This isn't about showing that TC is good. This is about how this is proof that JC has been the problem because a bad backup looked better for a half than JC has looked the last 18 games or whatever.

:applause: :cheers:

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This isn't about showing that TC is good. This is about how this is proof that JC has been the problem because a bad backup looked better for a half than JC has looked the last 18 games or whatever.

JC is still very inexperienced and learning to play in the NFL. I think we all know he is not complete right now. Other than Brady every QB I have seen takes a while to get used to live starting action in the NFL. The only way JC will improve is to play through the situations, and from experience learn what to expect and how to succeed.

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Knowledge of the offense and a good understanding of NFL defenses

Do not underestimate how smart TC is. But he is a backup and physically doesn't bring it

JC still needs to improve on recognizing the defense, and getting through his reads quickly. Maybe watching TC do it for a few weeks will be helpful for JC

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agree:applause:

We could also add:

Experience

Age - isn't intimidated by an onslaught of defenders coming at him

Worked with Sanders before

Turned off his audible (:D ) and called his own game

Not only is he not intimidated, he threw right into the face of the blitz for the Betts TD. Just a perfect read. I doubt the G men will blitz alot next week because of it.

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You're looking at this all wrong. If TC gets lit up next week, then it proves what we already know: he is a backup.

This isn't about showing that TC is the answer at QB or that he is good.

What you need to realize is that TC showed the problem is with the QB play on this team because when we change that, our offense looked the best it has looked.

This isn't about showing that TC is good. This is about how this is proof that JC has been the problem because a bad backup looked better for a half than JC has looked the last 18 games or whatever.

I can see this arguement. I SERIOUSLY doubt Collins will suddenly go out and light up the league. He had a good night is all. However, I do think it's telling that we chronically struggle as we get closer to the goal line at critical times until we switch QBs. I am concerned about Campbell's ability to put teams away, and this game reinforced that concern. Hopefully Campbell continues to grow and improve and next year figures out what's causing him to struggle at key moments during games. He has the potential to be a really good QB, but he's gotta figure that out.

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one think that could be said is that, while Campbell was a great QB his senior year at Auburn, he also had an awesome running game in Cadillac and Ronnie Brown (both of whom were doing really well until injuries). I'm not entirely sure how good in the red zone Campbell was at Auburn, but he could rely on a great o-line (a line that produced both Ben Grubbs and Marcus McNiel, rookie starters on their respective teams) along with two great RB's.

Here, we cannot seem to get the run game going. We still call running plays, but they don't work. ALso, Campbell had some big targets in his WR's: Ben Obomanu (who is doing pretty well as a 3rd/4th WR in Seattle), Courtney Taylor (his favorite target by far), Anthony Mix, and TE Cooper Wallace. Those guys were not the fastest, but they were good with the jump ball and were all 6' or taller.

As we have seen, a QB is only as good as the talent around him. Look at how fast McNabb is falling, but in 2004, when he had TO and the o-line was still doing well, McNabb was dominating. McNabb also started off strong in early 2006 before injury.

Brett Favre, been crappy from 2005-2006. Claimed it was due to the talent around him. I mocked him for it, most did. He was right though. That o-line gelled and is now opening holes for no name Ryan Grant. Those WR's, all 2nd rounders or lower (except Driver, not sure of his pick), but they are doing well. They can definitely attribute that to Favre, but he is also benefitting by how those WR's can make people miss and get tons of yards after the catch.

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Collins, due to his experience in this offensive system, sees the play much faster than Campbell and goes through his progressions much more naturally. He also anticipates and recognizes the defenses pre-snap. It's all mental and things that Campbell will become better at as he matures.

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TC knows the offense better. Bears also rushed at him more, assuming since he hasn't played in years and has less mobility than JC, he'd be an easy target.

JC has proven that he's capable of avoid the pass rush, and can even be a threat running the ball. Teams sit back a bit and force him to beat them with his arm.

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I think a healthy Randle El and Sellers, and mistakes by the Bears helped a lot.

The first TD came directly off a Griese interception, so I think we caught the defense off guard. Those kind of play-action throws to a TE over the middle are the kind of touchdown Campbell has actually been pretty good at this year, and that's why Cooley leads the team in TD's. Yoder coming up with that ball was a pleasant surprise.

When we were winning earlier in the season, Randle El seemed to pick up a lot of the tough first downs, and he was back doing it last night. That has been there for both Campbell and Collins.

Also, one of our touchdowns was the fullback dive with Sellers, which is a play we couldn't run for the past few weeks.

And honestly, the Bears defense was just bad ... when we had 8 guys protecting and 2 guys running routes, Moss and Randle El would still get open. Collins played well, but it's hard to draw big conclusions from one game.

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