Would the Skins still have won with Campbell?

[SnyderMustGo]

It tells me that the coaches are holding Jason back and not letting Jason do his job

Right.

Blame the coaches. Blame the oline for not giving JC the same pocket. Blame the WRs for dropping the balls when JC throws them but deciding to catch them when TC does.

Blame everyone except the most obvious explanation: that the reason for the disparity is JC himself and his inaccurate and inconsistent play.

Also: w/r/t the argument the coaches have been holding JC back... you must have missed the stats that we've lost every single game that the offense was "opened up" for JC.

[ttr77]

Jason was getting better and better every game, but it seems you are acting like someone who has just started watching football this year and don't understand that it takes time for a young QB to mature and develop...go watch some film on Manning and Farve in their first years in the NFL.

How was he getting better? Because he threw 170 passes in the last 4 games? The Skins went 0-4 in those games. His best game was months ago, against Detroit. He has fallen back since then. This is his 3rd year in the league...not exactly the same situation as Manning.

[voicekiller]

You gotta be kidding. Why would they possibly do this?!? Hold Jason back, only to let Todd freakin' Collins do HIS job? Man...

Why? what have you not watched all season? Are you that blinded by your TC man love to realize the play calling totally changed with TC at QB...

[AU Burgundy & Gold]

pgitta

I agree with you completely!!! Some of these so called die hard Skins fans are a complete embarrassment.

- They scream during the ST moment of silence.

- They cheer when Carlos Rogers gets injured.

- They cheer when Campbell gets hurt.

- They chant "Joe Must Go!" at the game after an emotional week and loss.

- They chant "F_ck You Joe" at the game after an emotional week and loss.

- The constantly want other teams players.

- They flip flop on every issue.

Embarrassing! You never cheer for injuries to your own players. Period. Sure, if they had the consistency from all 3 facets from the team (offense, defense, and special teams) Campbell could've gotten the job done. Those 2 drops at the beginning of the game would've made JC stats 12-16. The ARE one was huge as he probably would've taken it to the house. I thought the playcalling was different on first and second downs, but Collins played great! I was there lower level, with 20 degree weather, feet frozen, until the very end while all these so called "Die Hard Skins Fans" didn't even show resulting in decreased 12th Man numbers and Bear fans everywhere. Great support you die harders, you! This when tickets were available. Hell, I saw people buying tickets at the box office before the game!!! What I saw too was a defense that forced TOs and shortened the field for better scoring opportunities for the offense. That's what great defenses are supposed to do. Having Sellers, ARE, and even Randy for emotional leadership was a positive. Collins and JC each do different things better and it will be interesting to see what Collins does at the NYG once they gameplan for him.

Do I think Collins could've moved the ball down the field the last couple of games against teams specializing in Cover 2 where your have to make those hard deep throws down the middle, late in the game with few TOs? No. But as Saunders said, he's known him for 7 years in the offense, and has been in the league for 13 years or so he's great in this offense. The Yoder TD was a typical Cooley route but he was out at the time due to injury. Campbell would've made that throw since Cooley it's his primary receiver anyway. Now the Betts TD was the most impressive to me. Don't think or know if JC would've made that throw though.

If Campbell was the ONLY reason we lost games this year they would've benched him. But it all goes hand in hand. If the defense played this well before we might not have been in some situations, and the offense as well. Having to drive the length of the field, make tough deep throws, advance on several 3rd and longs, and needing a TD TO WIN, is a lot different than doing all this and just needing a FG. There's a reason the Bills and a rookie QB and a 3rd string RB looked great last week- No pressure on the QB. Last night we brought the hammer and the Landry acquisition will play dividends. He looked more comfortable playing deep center field ala Sean Taylor, and he can play either safety position. Folks, we may be looking for a SS instead. I think LL played more of a FS at LSU too, although he was moved around a lot. The late hit was bad but he's sending a message. Remember later when he tackled the WR and the guy got up and pushed him? LL was already in the guy's head. Watch that when he tackles opponents he usually rolls over him to completely lay over and blanket the player. It's almost like intimidation and mind games he's playing.

It seems like most think Campbell sucks and we should get rid of him. Do me a favor, e-mail ESPN or Peter King, or some other major sports site and ask them if the Skins wanted to trade Campbell how many teams would be interested? Jason La Canfora said on his blog this week to be patient and that several teams would "gladly" like to have Campbell. It's his first season starting so I don't expect him to have more savvy or experience than someone who's been in the league for 13 years or so. That experience will help him not make some of those throws such as the Rhonde Barber INT. That was similar to the Springs INT although Tampa plays the Cover 2 and tries to force teams down the middle of the field. People seem to forget that those TOs in the redzone wouldn't have occurred if Campbell didn't FIRST get the team to that position. For him to constantly complete 3rd and longs, deep down the middle of the field, and even get into those positions as a first year starter is great! People so quickly forget flashes of his exemplary play in some games:

- His first start against Tampa last year when he threw for near 200 yrds and 2 TDs in TB against a good defense. The TDs were good bc they resulted from his scrambling and throwing across his body to Yoder and others in the redzone. People forget how difficult it is to memorize a 700 page playbook and then have 1 week or preparation in going from the 3rd string to the starter.

- The second half of last years Giants game when he played well. Now when we need to go the distance with around 2 mintues left he wasn't able to get down the field, an obvious area of improvement. But what do we see this year? We see him now drive 70-80 yrds against tough defenses and near the end of the games and get to the redzone, but fail. That's development people. Obviously he's next step will be to do so at the very end of the game and get the TD.

- Last drive against the Giants this year. Goes down the field with little time left completing several 3 and LONGs deep down the middle of the field.

- On the road at Philly. Clearly outplayed McNabbi on a national stage and that TD to Cooley after the coach managment issues was nice. The players were in chaos yelling and screaming and according to players Campbell told them to shutup and that they'd get in the endzone. Then the ensuing Cooley TD with Pro Bowler Dawkins and their CB draped on him was beautiful. That's poise in Philly on MNF. Then the second half plays and scrambles were nice as well. Clearly outplayed McNabb

- Lions game. Over 200 yrds, 80% completion, and 2 TDs. This was the team's overall best W with all three components playing well.

- This year on the road at GB. Campbell outplayed Favre in Lambeau but had 7 drops. If his receivers catch those he throws for over 300 yrds on the road in hostile GB.

- Dallas. Even though he threw the last second INT, this was a good performance. The Skins were double digits underdogs and had a lot of injuries already. EVERYONE thought this was gonna be a blowout, yes even the Die Hard Skins fans, but the Cowboys were sweating bullets. You see Romo sits to pee constantly pouring water on his head? Take away any of those WIDE OPEN TO TDs and we win without the last second heroics. The secondary was in dissaray and now seems to be settling down and getting used to not having our man ST back there.

- The TB game was tough but again we see the ability to get the ball down the field, with minimal or no timeouts, less than 3 minutes to go, and going 75+ yrds. That's tough especially with no running game.

So, it's all about development. Last year JC doesn't drive down the length of the field late in the game. This year we see him doing that late in the game and EVEN getting the team in scoring position. Hopefully next year we see him develop to Step 3 and pull off the W after going the length of the field, late in the game. As mentioned, people are not even considering as a first year starter how good that is after learning a supposedly complex 700 page playbook, the in game pressure, learning which only comes with on the field experince, etc. People don't consider even Campbell putting in the extra time off the field and having the proactive work ethic to WANT to do that.

Yes, let's get rid of the bum. E-mail John Clayton and Peter King and let me know what they say. Other young QBs have struggled to. Do you think there's a reason Kurt Warner gets was selected to start even before Matt Leinart was injured? It's bc he was better at the no huddle than Leinart and which JC is actually very good at. Eli? 4 INTs in one game, looking flusterd in the which the Giants' GM called him out publicly, and redzone INTs in recent weeks. Yet again, we Die Hard Skins Fans get boners. Charlie Casserly was on the local "Washington Post Live" show this week and was asked about Campbell. Charlie said he likes Campbell and also talked to several coaches/teams who've played the Skins this year. These teams liked Campbell but said our problem is the only redzone threat we have is Cooley and need another big target (sounds familiar). So again, let me know what those NFL insiders say about Campbell's trade value.

FYI- Avg 1.3 yrds running the ball ala the Bears game ain't gonna get it done.

[voicekiller]

How was he getting better? Because he threw 170 passes in the last 4 games? The Skins went 0-4 in those games. His best game was months ago, against Detroit. He has fallen back since then. This is his 3rd year in the league...not exactly the same situation as Manning.

3rd year in the league 1st full year as the starter...very similar situation

[ttr77]

Why? what have you not watched all season? Are you that blinded by your TC man love to realize the play calling totally changed with TC at QB...

It did change. Because TC could handle it. Perhaps your hatred for Gibbs is blinding you to the fact that he is paid to win. Holding back a player from doing what would help him do just that is asinine. Blaming the OL and WR for Jason's struggles is just as bad.

[voicekiller]

pgitta

I agree with you completely!!! Some of these so called die hard Skins fans are a complete embarrassment.

- They scream during the ST moment of silence.

- They cheer when Carlos Rogers gets injured.

- They cheer when Campbell gets hurt.

- They chant "Joe Must Go!" at the game after an emotional week and loss.

- They chant "F_ck You Joe" at the game after an emotional week and loss.

- The constantly want other teams players.

- They flip flop on every issue.

Embarrassing! You never cheer for injuries to your own players. Period. Sure, if they had the consistency from all 3 facets from the team (offense, defense, and special teams) Campbell could've gotten the job done. Those 2 drops at the beginning of the game would've made JC stats 12-16. The ARE one was huge as he probably would've taken it to the house. I thought the playcalling was different on first and second downs, but Collins played great! I was there lower level, with 20 degree weather, feet frozen, until the very end while all these so called "Die Hard Skins Fans" didn't even show resulting in decreased 12th Man numbers and Bear fans everywhere. Great support you die harders, you! This when tickets were available. Hell, I saw people buying tickets at the box office before the game!!! What I saw too was a defense that forced TOs and shortened the field for better scoring opportunities for the offense. That's what great defenses are supposed to do. Having Sellers, ARE, and even Randy for emotional leadership was a positive. Collins and JC each do different things better and it will be interesting to see what Collins does at the NYG once they gameplan for him.

Do I think Collins could've moved the ball down the field the last couple of games against teams specializing in Cover 2 where your have to make those hard deep throws down the middle, late in the game with few TOs? No. But as Saunders said, he's known him for 7 years in the offense, and has been in the league for 13 years or so he's great in this offense. The Yoder TD was a typical Cooley route but he was out at the time due to injury. Campbell would've made that throw since Cooley it's his primary receiver anyway. Now the Betts TD was the most impressive to me. Don't think or know if JC would've made that throw though.

If Campbell was the ONLY reason we lost games this year they would've benched him. But it all goes hand in hand. If the defense played this well before we might not have been in some situations, and the offense as well. Having to drive the length of the field, make tough deep throws, advance on several 3rd and longs, and needing a TD TO WIN, is a lot different than doing all this and just needing a FG. There's a reason the Bills and a rookie QB and a 3rd string RB looked great last week- No pressure on the QB. Last night we brought the hammer and the Landry acquisition will play dividends. He looked more comfortable playing deep center field ala Sean Taylor, and he can play either safety position. Folks, we may be looking for a SS instead. I think LL played more of a FS at LSU too, although he was moved around a lot. The late hit was bad but he's sending a message. Remember later when he tackled the WR and the guy got up and pushed him? LL was already in the guy's head. Watch that when he tackles opponents he usually rolls over him to completely lay over and blanket the player. It's almost like intimidation and mind games he's playing.

It seems like most think Campbell sucks and we should get rid of him. Do me a favor, e-mail ESPN or Peter King, or some other major sports site and ask them if the Skins wanted to trade Campbell how many teams would be interested? Jason La Canfora said on his blog this week to be patient and that several teams would "gladly" like to have Campbell. It's his first season starting so I don't expect him to have more savvy or experience than someone who's been in the league for 13 years or so. That experience will help him not make some of those throws such as the Rhonde Barber INT. That was similar to the Springs INT although Tampa plays the Cover 2 and tries to force teams down the middle of the field. People seem to forget that those TOs in the redzone wouldn't have occurred if Campbell didn't FIRST get the team to that position. For him to constantly complete 3rd and longs, deep down the middle of the field, and even get into those positions as a first year starter is great! People so quickly forget flashes of his exemplary play in some games:

- His first start against Tampa last year when he threw for near 200 yrds and 2 TDs in TB against a good defense. The TDs were good bc they resulted from his scrambling and throwing across his body to Yoder and others in the redzone. People forget how difficult it is to memorize a 700 page playbook and then have 1 week or preparation in going from the 3rd string to the starter.

- The second half of last years Giants game when he played well. Now when we need to go the distance with around 2 mintues left he wasn't able to get down the field, an obvious area of improvement. But what do we see this year? We see him now drive 70-80 yrds against tough defenses and near the end of the games and get to the redzone, but fail. That's development people. Obviously he's next step will be to do so at the very end of the game and get the TD.

- Last drive against the Giants this year. Goes down the field with little time left completing several 3 and LONGs deep down the middle of the field.

- On the road at Philly. Clearly outplayed McNabbi on a national stage and that TD to Cooley after the coach managment issues was nice. The players were in chaos yelling and screaming and according to players Campbell told them to shutup and that they'd get in the endzone. Then the ensuing Cooley TD with Pro Bowler Dawkins and their CB draped on him was beautiful. That's poise in Philly on MNF. Then the second half plays and scrambles were nice as well. Clearly outplayed McNabb

- Lions game. Over 200 yrds, 80% completion, and 2 TDs. This was the team's overall best W with all three components playing well.

- This year on the road at GB. Campbell outplayed Favre in Lambeau but had 7 drops. If his receivers catch those he throws for over 300 yrds on the road in hostile GB.

- Dallas. Even though he threw the last second INT, this was a good performance. The Skins were double digits underdogs and had a lot of injuries already. EVERYONE thought this was gonna be a blowout, yes even the Die Hard Skins fans, but the Cowboys were sweating bullets. You see Romo sits to pee constantly pouring water on his head? Take away any of those WIDE OPEN TO TDs and we win without the last second heroics. The secondary was in dissaray and now seems to be settling down and getting used to not having our man ST back there.

- The TB game was tough but again we see the ability to get the ball down the field, with minimal or no timeouts, less than 3 minutes to go, and going 75+ yrds. That's tough especially with no running game.

So, it's all about development. Last year JC doesn't drive down the length of the field late in the game. This year we see him doing that late in the game and EVEN getting the team in scoring position. Hopefully next year we see him develop to Step 3 and pull off the W after going the length of the field, late in the game. As mentioned, people are not even considering as a first year starter how good that is after learning a supposedly complex 700 page playbook, the in game pressure, learning which only comes with on the field experince, etc. People don't consider even Campbell putting in the extra time off the field and having the proactive work ethic to WANT to do that.

Yes, let's get rid of the bum. E-mail John Clayton and Peter King and let me know what they say. Other young QBs have struggled to. Do you think there's a reason Kurt Warner gets was selected to start even before Matt Leinart was injured? It's bc he was better at the no huddle than Leinart and which JC is actually very good at. Eli? 4 INTs in one game, looking flusterd in the which the Giants' GM called him out publicly, and redzone INTs in recent weeks. Yet again, we Die Hard Skins Fans get boners. Charlie Casserly was on the local "Washington Post Live" show this week and was asked about Campbell. Charlie said he likes Campbell and also talked to several coaches/teams who've played the Skins this year. These teams liked Campbell but said our problem is the only redzone threat we have is Cooley and need another big target (sounds familiar). So again, let me know what those NFL insiders say about Campbell's trade value.

FYI- Avg 1.3 yrds running the ball ala the Bears game ain't gonna get it done.

very nice and well thought out...at least there are some people on here who know what they are talking about

[ttr77]

3rd year in the league 1st full year as the starter...very similar situation

Sure.

[SnyderMustGo]

3rd year in the league 1st full year as the starter...very similar situation

Uh, no it isn't.

Goddamn you nut-huggers will make every fricking excuse in the book to excuse poor play. Then, ironically, when TC enters the game, you makes excuses for his good play and try to downplay it.

JC played through his senior year. He was drafted very high with several picks invested in him. He should have been a 1st year starter. But we did him a favor and let him sit and learn for a year and a half. At this point in time, he has had 3 training camps, 3 off-seasons, and played in more than a season.

That you people still calling him a rookie and are trying to compare him to Manning's first year as a rookie is absoluely astounding and shows how hard you are trying to excuse his play.

[voicekiller]

It did change. Because TC could handle it. Perhaps your hatred for Gibbs is blinding you to the fact that he is paid to win. Holding back a player from doing what would help him do just that is asinine. Blaming the OL and WR for Jason's struggles is just as bad.

I am not blaming Gibbs, and i never said i hated Gibbs...so don't assume anything...it makes you look like an ass...

TC has been in Saunders O for 7 years, or don't you understand that. I am not blaming Jason's struggles on the OLine or the WR but when your WR's drop so many balls, or your OLine gets decimated it is going to have an effect on your QB...or don't you get that?

[SnyderMustGo]

Do me a favor, e-mail ESPN or Peter King, or some other major sports site and ask them if the Skins wanted to trade Campbell how many teams would be interested? Jason La Canfora said on his blog this week to be patient and that several teams would "gladly" like to have Campbell.

Maybe several. Let's see... Miami, Kansas City and Atlanta. Who else? I can't think of anyone else. Maybe Baltimore.

So maybe 3-4 teams in the entire league.

Great, so we have a QB that only 3-4 other teams in the league would trade for. Bottom tier is AWESOME!

[HSW]

Uh, no it isn't.

Goddamn you nut-huggers will make every fricking excuse in the book to excuse poor play. Then, ironically, when TC enters the game, you makes excuses for his good play and try to downplay it.

JC played through his senior year. He was drafted very high with several picks invested in him. He should have been a 1st year starter. But we did him a favor and let him sit and learn for a year and a half. At this point in time, he has had 3 training camps, 3 off-seasons, and played in more than a season.

That you people still calling him a rookie and are trying to compare him to Manning's first year as a rookie is absoluely astounding and shows how hard you are trying to excuse his play.

You sound like an immature kid. Come back in a few years when

you can express yourself like an adult...

[HSW]

pgitta

I agree with you completely!!! Some of these so called die hard Skins fans are a complete embarrassment.

- They scream during the ST moment of silence.

- They cheer when Carlos Rogers gets injured.

- They cheer when Campbell gets hurt.

- They chant "Joe Must Go!" at the game after an emotional week and loss.

- They chant "F_ck You Joe" at the game after an emotional week and loss.

- The constantly want other teams players.

- They flip flop on every issue.

Embarrassing! You never cheer for injuries to your own players. Period. Sure, if they had the consistency from all 3 facets from the team (offense, defense, and special teams) Campbell could've gotten the job done. Those 2 drops at the beginning of the game would've made JC stats 12-16. The ARE one was huge as he probably would've taken it to the house. I thought the playcalling was different on first and second downs, but Collins played great! I was there lower level, with 20 degree weather, feet frozen, until the very end while all these so called "Die Hard Skins Fans" didn't even show resulting in decreased 12th Man numbers and Bear fans everywhere. Great support you die harders, you! This when tickets were available. Hell, I saw people buying tickets at the box office before the game!!! What I saw too was a defense that forced TOs and shortened the field for better scoring opportunities for the offense. That's what great defenses are supposed to do. Having Sellers, ARE, and even Randy for emotional leadership was a positive. Collins and JC each do different things better and it will be interesting to see what Collins does at the NYG once they gameplan for him.

Do I think Collins could've moved the ball down the field the last couple of games against teams specializing in Cover 2 where your have to make those hard deep throws down the middle, late in the game with few TOs? No. But as Saunders said, he's known him for 7 years in the offense, and has been in the league for 13 years or so he's great in this offense. The Yoder TD was a typical Cooley route but he was out at the time due to injury. Campbell would've made that throw since Cooley it's his primary receiver anyway. Now the Betts TD was the most impressive to me. Don't think or know if JC would've made that throw though.

If Campbell was the ONLY reason we lost games this year they would've benched him. But it all goes hand in hand. If the defense played this well before we might not have been in some situations, and the offense as well. Having to drive the length of the field, make tough deep throws, advance on several 3rd and longs, and needing a TD TO WIN, is a lot different than doing all this and just needing a FG. There's a reason the Bills and a rookie QB and a 3rd string RB looked great last week- No pressure on the QB. Last night we brought the hammer and the Landry acquisition will play dividends. He looked more comfortable playing deep center field ala Sean Taylor, and he can play either safety position. Folks, we may be looking for a SS instead. I think LL played more of a FS at LSU too, although he was moved around a lot. The late hit was bad but he's sending a message. Remember later when he tackled the WR and the guy got up and pushed him? LL was already in the guy's head. Watch that when he tackles opponents he usually rolls over him to completely lay over and blanket the player. It's almost like intimidation and mind games he's playing.

It seems like most think Campbell sucks and we should get rid of him. Do me a favor, e-mail ESPN or Peter King, or some other major sports site and ask them if the Skins wanted to trade Campbell how many teams would be interested? Jason La Canfora said on his blog this week to be patient and that several teams would "gladly" like to have Campbell. It's his first season starting so I don't expect him to have more savvy or experience than someone who's been in the league for 13 years or so. That experience will help him not make some of those throws such as the Rhonde Barber INT. That was similar to the Springs INT although Tampa plays the Cover 2 and tries to force teams down the middle of the field. People seem to forget that those TOs in the redzone wouldn't have occurred if Campbell didn't FIRST get the team to that position. For him to constantly complete 3rd and longs, deep down the middle of the field, and even get into those positions as a first year starter is great! People so quickly forget flashes of his exemplary play in some games:

- His first start against Tampa last year when he threw for near 200 yrds and 2 TDs in TB against a good defense. The TDs were good bc they resulted from his scrambling and throwing across his body to Yoder and others in the redzone. People forget how difficult it is to memorize a 700 page playbook and then have 1 week or preparation in going from the 3rd string to the starter.

- The second half of last years Giants game when he played well. Now when we need to go the distance with around 2 mintues left he wasn't able to get down the field, an obvious area of improvement. But what do we see this year? We see him now drive 70-80 yrds against tough defenses and near the end of the games and get to the redzone, but fail. That's development people. Obviously he's next step will be to do so at the very end of the game and get the TD.

- Last drive against the Giants this year. Goes down the field with little time left completing several 3 and LONGs deep down the middle of the field.

- On the road at Philly. Clearly outplayed McNabbi on a national stage and that TD to Cooley after the coach managment issues was nice. The players were in chaos yelling and screaming and according to players Campbell told them to shutup and that they'd get in the endzone. Then the ensuing Cooley TD with Pro Bowler Dawkins and their CB draped on him was beautiful. That's poise in Philly on MNF. Then the second half plays and scrambles were nice as well. Clearly outplayed McNabb

- Lions game. Over 200 yrds, 80% completion, and 2 TDs. This was the team's overall best W with all three components playing well.

- This year on the road at GB. Campbell outplayed Favre in Lambeau but had 7 drops. If his receivers catch those he throws for over 300 yrds on the road in hostile GB.

- Dallas. Even though he threw the last second INT, this was a good performance. The Skins were double digits underdogs and had a lot of injuries already. EVERYONE thought this was gonna be a blowout, yes even the Die Hard Skins fans, but the Cowboys were sweating bullets. You see Romo sits to pee constantly pouring water on his head? Take away any of those WIDE OPEN TO TDs and we win without the last second heroics. The secondary was in dissaray and now seems to be settling down and getting used to not having our man ST back there.

- The TB game was tough but again we see the ability to get the ball down the field, with minimal or no timeouts, less than 3 minutes to go, and going 75+ yrds. That's tough especially with no running game.

So, it's all about development. Last year JC doesn't drive down the length of the field late in the game. This year we see him doing that late in the game and EVEN getting the team in scoring position. Hopefully next year we see him develop to Step 3 and pull off the W after going the length of the field, late in the game. As mentioned, people are not even considering as a first year starter how good that is after learning a supposedly complex 700 page playbook, the in game pressure, learning which only comes with on the field experince, etc. People don't consider even Campbell putting in the extra time off the field and having the proactive work ethic to WANT to do that.

Yes, let's get rid of the bum. E-mail John Clayton and Peter King and let me know what they say. Other young QBs have struggled to. Do you think there's a reason Kurt Warner gets was selected to start even before Matt Leinart was injured? It's bc he was better at the no huddle than Leinart and which JC is actually very good at. Eli? 4 INTs in one game, looking flusterd in the which the Giants' GM called him out publicly, and redzone INTs in recent weeks. Yet again, we Die Hard Skins Fans get boners. Charlie Casserly was on the local "Washington Post Live" show this week and was asked about Campbell. Charlie said he likes Campbell and also talked to several coaches/teams who've played the Skins this year. These teams liked Campbell but said our problem is the only redzone threat we have is Cooley and need another big target (sounds familiar). So again, let me know what those NFL insiders say about Campbell's trade value.

FYI- Avg 1.3 yrds running the ball ala the Bears game ain't gonna get it done.

Intelligent life does exist.:applause:

[voicekiller]

Uh, no it isn't.

Goddamn you nut-huggers will make every fricking excuse in the book to excuse poor play. Then, ironically, when TC enters the game, you makes excuses for his good play and try to downplay it.

JC played through his senior year. He was drafted very high with several picks invested in him. He should have been a 1st year starter. But we did him a favor and let him sit and learn for a year and a half. At this point in time, he has had 3 training camps, 3 off-seasons, and played in more than a season.

That you people still calling him a rookie and are trying to compare him to Manning's first year as a rookie is absoluely astounding and shows how hard you are trying to excuse his play.

LOL...too funny...without saying you said it yourself this is his first full year as a starter...yes he has been in training camp and sat for a year and a half but until you start and play in live games you don't learn how to manage games and execute the play calling...why is it when Jason runs the no huddle and calls his own plays the offense looks great, but then when they go back to the huddle and get the calls from the sideline everything goes wrong...should i slow down for you or can you follow this? It is definitly the play calling.

And I am not down playing Todds great game last night...he should do well in this system he has been in it for 7 years...and i hope he does well for the sake of the team...but when Jason is healthy next season and he is the starter are you going to cry?

[voicekiller]

Intelligent life does exist.:applause:

my sentiments exactly:applause:

[ttr77]

I am not blaming Gibbs, and i never said i hated Gibbs...so don't assume anything...it makes you look like an ass...

TC has been in Saunders O for 7 years, or don't you understand that. I am not blaming Jason's struggles on the OLine or the WR but when your WR's drop so many balls, or your OLine gets decimated it is going to have an effect on your QB...or don't you get that?

You assumed that I have some kind of man love for TC...what does that make you? You are blaming the coaches playcalling for JC's struggles. That shows me that you don't like the way the coaches are doing their jobs.

Anyway, by your posts - we need to replace the coaches, the OL, the WRs. Are you ok with the RB and TE? Or should they be replaced too?

Or maybe we should just find a QB that makes all these other players actually do their jobs? Maybe for now, TC is that man. It's easier to replace one player, as I recommend, vs. replacing the 15 that you want gone.

Either way, I'm glad you are not in charge of personnel.

[AU Burgundy & Gold]

SnyderMustGo-

Simply e-mail Jason La Canfora, Clayton, King, and others to see what the Campbell's trade value would be. Not your estimation on who those teams would be or the potential league wide interest. I'm all for the team's success and hope Collins does well. And sure, maybe he is the man after being 36 yrs old and having 13 years in the league. I think at 36 he's the future. If we can get great value let's trade Campbell in the offseason.

[skinzbeachman]

No. I sure seen the difference between Collins and Campbell in the preseason and now. JC= Cromagnon man. Got the tools but not the brain. Just look at him.

I have had similiar thoughts about Campbell. He seems confused at times and doesnt seem to see wide open WR's. Because he throws the ball so hard it ends up being overthrown many times or behind receivers into the arms of the defenders. I dont buy the part about he only has had 20 starts because he has played football for what 17 to 18 years now, one would think he would learn how to put some touch on the ball.

Gibbs should have benched JC for a game or two earlier this season to let him watch someone else run this offense.

[voicekiller]

You assumed that I have some kind of man love for TC...what does that make you? You are blaming the coaches playcalling for JC's struggles. That shows me that you don't like the way the coaches are doing their jobs.

Anyway, by your posts - we need to replace the coaches, the OL, the WRs. Are you ok with the RB and TE? Or should they be replaced too?

Or maybe we should just find a QB that makes all these other players actually do their jobs? Maybe for now, TC is that man. It's easier to replace one player, as I recommend, vs. replacing the 15 that you want gone.

Either way, I'm glad you are not in charge of personnel.

Ok you need to stop assuming anything.

It is not blame it is fact...do you think the playcalling has been good in the second quarter of the games we have lost? Did you not see when Jason runs the no huddle it has great results?

And by my posts i never said we need to replace the coaches, WR or OLine...if the OLine was actually healthy for the last 6-8 games things would be different, if the WR's where healthy things would have been different...or did you not notice that Santana, ARE, and co have been injured most of the year.

[skinzbeachman]

Seems like some of you are forgetting some of the recent games when JC has been running the no-huddle at the the end of the game trying to win the game and throws a pick or two. This guy chokes when the game is on the line.

[ttr77]

Ok you need to stop assuming anything.

It is not blame it is fact...do you think the playcalling has been good in the second quarter of the games we have lost? Did you not see when Jason runs the no huddle it has great results?

And by my posts i never said we need to replace the coaches, WR or OLine...if the OLine was actually healthy for the last 6-8 games things would be different, if the WR's where healthy things would have been different...or did you not notice that Santana, ARE, and co have been injured most of the year.

Dude - you said the OL played better in the second half. Did all the injured guys make miraculous recoveries? Or did the backups just play better?

You also said the WRs were dropping passes. Did they just suddenly learn how to catch again in the second half?

Or was TC's quick release and touch on the ball helping the OL block better and the WRs hold onto passes?

Bottom line is that the offense was completely better in the 2nd half last night than it was for practically the whole season. You can say the OL, the WR, and the playcalling was better. I prefer my reasoning - the QB was better. Whether that continues remains to be seen.

[akorn22]

I dunno man, I've seen one too many drives this season that gets into the opposing team's territory and then stalls. Before Campbell got hurt, i saw 2 stalled drives....but this time suisiam missed the field goals so it was worse then our normal stalled drives. THen collins came in and those drives ended in touchdowns instead of FG attempts.

Collins looked sharp and looked very well prepared. he did things i have yet to see campbell do effectively

[mjwilliams76]

Check it as a loss if JC had stayed in.

I think Saunders' offense does not fit Jason as a QB. Too long a release and too many reads.

Jason is talented, but not right for this system.

By the way, I never want to see those overhead shots again. Moss was open in the deep third like 10 times and neither QB saw him.

[taylorcoreskin]

One of those you really don't know

Is the playcalling the same? Does the o-line pass protect as well?

All sorts of questions and factors besides who the QB is

Does the oline protect as well? :laugh:

Like they didn't get a forced fumble from Collins?

It was the same oline and same dline that was knocking JC around in the Bears game for the first half. Todd comes in and all of a sudden completes passes down the field! It wasn't the oline that changed at halftime. We didn't fly the Patriots' oline down to the game to come pass protect for Todd. It was the same oline that helped JC go 10/16 for a 6.3 average. Only thing that changed was that Todd took his drop AND THREW. JC throws late so many times, our receivers must ****ing hate him. JC's managed to make a decent to good wide receiving corps look awful. Todd comes in with the same personnel as JC - the only thing that changed was that out offense was JCless. And apparently, a JCless offense is a good thing! Here's to 4-0.

[Tom10Y]

It definitely seemed like Collins made quicker reads and it seemed like the plays were second nature to him. Campbell had a bigger arm but he still needs time to get comfortable with the plays.

You can tell by watching the Collins and Campbell play the difference in comfort level of the QB's with the plays.

I agree when they say we would've still won it but a FG instead of the Betts TD.