What percentage of partisans want a secession?

[Burgold]

Once the country of purple's majesty, now to many we are the great blue-red divide. I hear about "them" and "other" so much more than I ever hear about "us". It's not unique to the Conservative/Republicans, though I hear it more often from them. Libs and Dems are to PC to tell peole they're not real Americans or to get out, but Libs/Dems are guilty of falling into the other/enemy mindset too.

Sometimes, especially when reading threads on the Tailgate, I get the sensation that many partisans would be happier if the Union was split in half. That they truly consider themselves American and those who think differently, act differently, or believe different not true U.S. Citizens. They think of their fellows as the "Enemy."

So, how do you think it would break down? What percentage of conservatives would rise to secede to form the United Conservative States? How many liberals would secede to form the United States of Liberty?

Or how much of it is political gamesmanship and silliness where the perpetrators just need a good slap upside the head?

[B.Lloyd]

Although many politicians, especially liberal drive me crazy, having a secession would be catastrophic IMO. There would no longer be a strong 2 party system with different views instead having a government with narrow minded foolishness. Having that type of government would tear down both because you need both.

[Westbrook36]

3 percent on each side. Those are the true hardcore believers of their cause. The kind of people that would stand up and take action. The rest are just blowhards on internet messageboards talking tough. To take action is an idea so foreign to them, it is laughable.

[rincewind]

Geograpically, secession would be a *****. The NE and the west are all blue - they would have to have a split country, like Pakistan of old.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Although many politicians, especially liberal drive me crazy, having a secession would be catastrophic IMO. There would no longer be a strong 2 party system with different views instead having a government with narrow minded foolishness. Having that type of government would tear down both because you need both.

You're sadly mistaken if you think that the parties would remain intact after such a split. The new governments might be unified for a very short period of time but I can assure you that they'd splinter within the first few years, with new parties forming over the new issues that arise.

Furthermore, you don't need both by any stretch of the imagination. It's actually preferable that NO parties exist in a Democracy.

[ACW]

The problem with the red-blue stuff is: what about the libertarians? Those who want gov't out of the bedroom AND boardroom, who dislike Pat Robertson AND Al Sharpton.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I truly believe the there are about 10% of the Conservatives out there who, under the right circumstances would stand up and be willing to attempt a splintering of the United States just like in 1861. The thing is that I believe there would have to be a serious catalyst for such an action. A movement like the abolition of legal private gun ownership or a similar action to really get that 10% moving and to allow them to pick up more support for a secessionist movement.

On the other side, I really doubt that there are enough true Socialist-Liberals in this country who would be willing to take such a drastic action as secession. Especially if it required taking up arms and fighting for it.

[Larry]

Actually 'gold, if you think the thought of splitting the country is scary:

I understand that a bit over 60% of the people in the US think it would be a Good Idea to convene a new Constitutional Convention to draft a new Constitution from scratch. (Supposedly, this isn't a new phenomenon, but has been true for decades.)

My thoughts on that idea are:

1. What this really shows is that a lot of people think that the new, improved, Constitution, would look more like what they, personally want. (They think the majority of the country agree with them.)
   
2. Boy, am I glad Congress doesn't do everything the voters want.
   

[Teller]

Actually 'gold, if you think the thought of splitting the country is scary:

I understand that a bit over 60% of the people in the US think it would be a Good Idea to convene a new Constitutional Convention to draft a new Constitution from scratch. (Supposedly, this isn't a new phenomenon, but has been true for decades.)

My thoughts on that idea are:

1. What this really shows is that a lot of people think that the new, improved, Constitution, would look more like what they, personally want. (They think the majority of the country agree with them.)
   
2. Boy, am I glad Congress doesn't do everything the voters want.
   

That's insanity. I knew about the NH and TX secession movements, but I didn't know about that.

Look, I'm as partisan as anybody. Unnecessarily so, sometimes, admittedly. But I'll tell you this. I will die for the Constitution we live under now. I will die to hold this country together in its current form. And I will die for your right, and Predicto's right, and Tj's right, and sith lord's right, to say things that drive me absolutely mad sometimes.

And for what it's worth, I think I'm in a pretty solid majority. And I'd suspect that the guys I just mentioned are in that very same majority.

[zoony]

I think probably 1% of the country would probably be in favor of something like this.

Fortunately though, they're tied up with other things most of the time, so they won't get around to it.

[portisizzle]

I am a firm believer that this country will go through a civil war or revolution at some point in my lifetime.

I think it will come down to issues involving taxation or the loss of our civil rights.

However I do not see the rift between two ideologies becoming a separating issue.

[Cdowwe]

Suceed...probably not. But I am still waiting for Hollywood to move to Canada after 2004

[LD0506]

I expected this to be about "True Fans" vs "Fire Gibbs"ers in the stadium.

[Jumbo]

I will die for the Constitution we live under now. I will die to hold this country together in its current form. And I will die for your right, and Predicto's right, and Tj's right, and sith lord's right, to say things that drive me absolutely mad sometimes.

And for what it's worth, I think I'm in a pretty solid majority. And I'd suspect that the guys I just mentioned are in that very same majority.

Well said, HH. I fully agree with the heart of what you say.

I, too, would love to personally tweak the Constitution in fantasy, but I know better. And using your short list, or adding one featuring you, Sarge, AFC, SHF, etc. as the "other" side, isn't as reflective for me as to what "really gets to me" in this free society, but I do understand. :laugh:

[Jumbo]

Furthermore, you don't need both by any stretch of the imagination. It's actually preferable that NO parties exist in a Democracy.

How about the more the merrier?

"We stand for a nobler America; we stand for a broader liberty, a fuller justice; we stand for intelligent co-operation instead of reckless competition; we stand for mutual helpfulness instead of mutual hatred; we stand for equal rights as a fact of life instead of a catch-word of politics; we stand for the rule of the people as a practical truth instead of a meaningless pretense."

Albert J. Beveridge, 1862-1927

U.S. Senator (Republican, IN)

Founder, Progressive League

Keynote Address, Progressive Party [bull Moose Party] Convention, Chicago, August 5, 1912

[Teller]

Well said, HH. I fully agree with the heart of what you say.

I, too, would love to personally tweak the Constitution in fantasy, but I know better. And using your short list, or adding one featuring you, Sarge, AFC, SHF, etc. as the "other" side, isn't as reflective for me as to what "really gets to me" in this free society, but I do understand. :laugh:

Yeah, I know. And therein lies the beauty of it all.

I don't love the fact that people I disagree with have the right to say whatever they want because I'm "supposed to." I love the fact that they can say what they want, because I WANT them to. And selfishly, and probably more importantly if I'm honest, I get to express MY unpopular opinions too.

Moreover, sure, you and I can have a debate, and walk away thinking, man, that was a pretty dumb position that other guy took. But ya know what? I can type, publicly on the interwebs for all to see, that I think my president should be impeached. And guess what? There are no men in dark suits kicking my door in. There are no charges being filed. I'm not under "house arrest."

On the most fundamental of levels, the overwhelming majority of us are in agreement. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Who among us will argue with that? Sure, we disagree on plenty of issues. But ultimately, none of those pieces even begins to compare to the whole.

I love this ****in' country. And I love each one of you who thinks I'm an idiot.

[TrumanB]

I think the current Blue/Red divide is temporary. This political stuff goes in cycles, much like the economy. It's just that the media plays it up much more today.

You need a strong leader to unite everyone. In 1984, the entire country was painted Red (Reagan). In 1996, the entire country was painted Blue (Clinton). The left hates to admit that Reagan was a strong leader and uniter, just like the right hates to admit that Clinton was a strong leader and uniter.

[Jumbo]

I think the current Blue/Red divide is temporary. This political stuff goes in cycles, much like the economy. It's just that the media plays it up much more today.

You need a strong leader to unite everyone. In 1984, the entire country was painted Red (Reagan). In 1996, the entire country was painted Blue (Clinton). The left hates to admit that Reagan was a strong leader and uniter, just like the right hates to admit that Clinton was a strong leader and uniter.

I agree with that, too.

I wonder if someone spiked my coffee.

[Teller]

I agree with that, too.

I wonder if someone spiked my coffee.

If they did, they spiked mine too. Good call Truman.

(I'm learning to like that guy.)

[PeterMP]

Can I seceede from all of the partisans?

[Jumbo]

Can I seceede from all of the partisans?

I agree with this the mostest :laugh:

[ATV]

I am a "liberal" and yes I would be happy if the wingnuts had their own country, and we had ours.

[Larry]

Just also pointing out that there is a simple, Constitutional, peaceful, way to permit the nation to split into red and blue.

It's called United States.

Just imagine. If the Feds didn't insist on claiming jurisdiction over things like marriage licenses, school curricula, and medical marijuana, then we could live in a place where the red states had red laws, and the blue states had blue laws, and people had the right to "vote with their feet" and to pick the laws they wanted.

Yeah, I'm a Trekkie, too, so I live in a fantasy, utopian world.

[TrumanB]

Just also pointing out that there is a simple, Constitutional, peaceful, way to permit the nation to split into red and blue.

It's called United States.

Just imagine. If the Feds didn't insist on claiming jurisdiction over things like marriage licenses, school curricula, and medical marijuana, then we could live in a place where the red states had red laws, and the blue states had blue laws, and people had the right to "vote with their feet" and to pick the laws they wanted.

Yeah, I'm a Trekkie, too, so I live in a fantasy, utopian world.

You mean that little thing called "states rights"? Didn't we already fight a war over that?

[Burgold]

Well, good to know that there are a few who believe in the United States more than their party. The tone and the efforts some make to vommit on each other makes me wonder sometimes.