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Al Saunders' Offensive (Passing) Stats by Team KC & WAS (Kind of Long)


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Last year everybody blamed Brunell. Now it Gibbs fault. Two years ago when Gibbs was calling the plays and MB was the qb nobody was saying nothing. Either way the offense reaks to high heaven. I'm starting to think that ES is turning into a bi*** and moan board. I personally feel that after the 2005 season we should have signed a wr or two and keep it moving with JG calling the shots.

:nono:

Don't ***** and moan.

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Last year everybody blamed Brunell. Now it Gibbs fault. Two years ago when Gibbs was calling the plays and MB was the qb nobody was saying nothing. Either way the offense reaks to high heaven. I'm starting to think that ES is turning into a bi*** and moan board. I personally feel that after the 2005 season we should have signed a wr or two and keep it moving with JG calling the shots.

:nono:

Don't ***** and moan.

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Is it me, or does JC seem to not want to run the ball ? It seems other young QB's will take the hole if they see it, while JC seems to really want to throw it and decides a little slower that he should make the dash.

A first down is ALWAYS a good thing. If he has to scramble out of the pocket and doesnt see something quickly yet sees a hole he could drive his hummer thru, seems that should be a good plan. How slow can a 25yr old athlete be ?

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Is it me, or does JC seem to not want to run the ball ? It seems other young QB's will take the hole if they see it, while JC seems to really want to throw it and decides a little slower that he should make the dash.

A first down is ALWAYS a good thing. If he has to scramble out of the pocket and doesnt see something quickly yet sees a hole he could drive his hummer thru, seems that should be a good plan. How slow can a 25yr old athlete be ?

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Is it me, or does JC seem to not want to run the ball ? It seems other young QB's will take the hole if they see it, while JC seems to really want to throw it and decides a little slower that he should make the dash.

A first down is ALWAYS a good thing. If he has to scramble out of the pocket and doesnt see something quickly yet sees a hole he could drive his hummer thru, seems that should be a good plan. How slow can a 25yr old athlete be ?

He's fast. Did you see him nearly chase down Charles Woodson in the GB game? He also ran for a TD in that game and was close to taking a hit. I think that if there's a big space there he'll take it, or if there's a TD to be had, but I'd rather him protect himself from injury than take the risk most of the time.

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Is it me, or does JC seem to not want to run the ball ? It seems other young QB's will take the hole if they see it, while JC seems to really want to throw it and decides a little slower that he should make the dash.

A first down is ALWAYS a good thing. If he has to scramble out of the pocket and doesnt see something quickly yet sees a hole he could drive his hummer thru, seems that should be a good plan. How slow can a 25yr old athlete be ?

He's fast. Did you see him nearly chase down Charles Woodson in the GB game? He also ran for a TD in that game and was close to taking a hit. I think that if there's a big space there he'll take it, or if there's a TD to be had, but I'd rather him protect himself from injury than take the risk most of the time.

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i agree with you 100%, and both of your examples are great. the cards pounded edge 27 times for 80 something yards, but they opened up the passing game on us big time. when parker cant get it going, ben is heaving it everywhere to miller or holmes or ward. we have as much talent if not more than both of these teams, yet were not using it.

its the risk that we wont take that bothers me. and whats even worse, now we have a great defense so we should be taking even MORE shots, because whats the worst that happens? we turn it over, and our defense shuts them down, we get the ball back, and we try again. its not like last year where we had to play it safe because our defense couldnt stop a pee wee football team.

I understand the desire to throw more when the run game is ineffective. However, our O-line was so banged up, JC didn't have a lot of time to make throws. He was disrupted quite a bit in that game, and allowing even more passes could lead to more sacks, and possibly JC getting hurt. Gibbs said that the D was performing well, and so the team leaned on the D. The gameplan worked, and if not for the BS penalty on Fletcher, the game itself wouldn't have come down to the last minute. Hopefully we will be throwing more this Sunday, since Rabach is returning and other lineman are getting healthier. I don't buy this "JC is being held back" stuff, as JC had 37 pass attempts against Green Bay.

The Pats can be run on, and I think we will see more of that again unless the Pats get a big lead early. Their D isn't what it was. The rankings disguise that a bit because NE has been forcing teams to abandon the run and pass heavily by scoring a lot early.

As for the thread toic, this is only Saunders second season. He is having to work with an injury-depleted O-line and a QB starting his first full season. I know mnay of you don't have any patience what-so-ever, but try.

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i agree with you 100%, and both of your examples are great. the cards pounded edge 27 times for 80 something yards, but they opened up the passing game on us big time. when parker cant get it going, ben is heaving it everywhere to miller or holmes or ward. we have as much talent if not more than both of these teams, yet were not using it.

its the risk that we wont take that bothers me. and whats even worse, now we have a great defense so we should be taking even MORE shots, because whats the worst that happens? we turn it over, and our defense shuts them down, we get the ball back, and we try again. its not like last year where we had to play it safe because our defense couldnt stop a pee wee football team.

I understand the desire to throw more when the run game is ineffective. However, our O-line was so banged up, JC didn't have a lot of time to make throws. He was disrupted quite a bit in that game, and allowing even more passes could lead to more sacks, and possibly JC getting hurt. Gibbs said that the D was performing well, and so the team leaned on the D. The gameplan worked, and if not for the BS penalty on Fletcher, the game itself wouldn't have come down to the last minute. Hopefully we will be throwing more this Sunday, since Rabach is returning and other lineman are getting healthier. I don't buy this "JC is being held back" stuff, as JC had 37 pass attempts against Green Bay.

The Pats can be run on, and I think we will see more of that again unless the Pats get a big lead early. Their D isn't what it was. The rankings disguise that a bit because NE has been forcing teams to abandon the run and pass heavily by scoring a lot early.

As for the thread toic, this is only Saunders second season. He is having to work with an injury-depleted O-line and a QB starting his first full season. I know mnay of you don't have any patience what-so-ever, but try.

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its the risk that we wont take that bothers me. and whats even worse, now we have a great defense so we should be taking even MORE shots, because whats the worst that happens? we turn it over, and our defense shuts them down, we get the ball back, and we try again. its not like last year where we had to play it safe because our defense couldnt stop a pee wee football team.

I understand not taking risks if your running game is dominant but like you said we are not running the ball with any consistancy. People say if we try to open it up our Oline will get smoked resulting in many hits on JC, I don't see our Oline that deficient in pass protection. I mean we have 3-carreer tackles (Samuels, Fabini, Wade) that are better suited for pass protection we should consider playing to their strengths as well. Again strive for balance but when we choose to throw not every play needs to be overly safe and to the outside (no one here is calling for run n' shoot offense, but c'mon).

Take shots, not only downfield, but also in that intermediate zone over the middle. I think our WR only run 3 patterns the out, the comeback, and the fly and they are all designed to be thorwn outside the numbers.

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its the risk that we wont take that bothers me. and whats even worse, now we have a great defense so we should be taking even MORE shots, because whats the worst that happens? we turn it over, and our defense shuts them down, we get the ball back, and we try again. its not like last year where we had to play it safe because our defense couldnt stop a pee wee football team.

I understand not taking risks if your running game is dominant but like you said we are not running the ball with any consistancy. People say if we try to open it up our Oline will get smoked resulting in many hits on JC, I don't see our Oline that deficient in pass protection. I mean we have 3-carreer tackles (Samuels, Fabini, Wade) that are better suited for pass protection we should consider playing to their strengths as well. Again strive for balance but when we choose to throw not every play needs to be overly safe and to the outside (no one here is calling for run n' shoot offense, but c'mon).

Take shots, not only downfield, but also in that intermediate zone over the middle. I think our WR only run 3 patterns the out, the comeback, and the fly and they are all designed to be thorwn outside the numbers.

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I understand not taking risks if your running game is dominant but like you said we are not running the ball with any consistancy. People say if we try to open it up our Oline will get smoked resulting in many hits on JC, I don't see our Oline that deficient in pass protection. I mean we have 3-carreer tackles (Samuels, Fabini, Wade) that are better suited for pass protection we should consider playing to their strengths as well.

:applause:

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I understand not taking risks if your running game is dominant but like you said we are not running the ball with any consistancy. People say if we try to open it up our Oline will get smoked resulting in many hits on JC, I don't see our Oline that deficient in pass protection. I mean we have 3-carreer tackles (Samuels, Fabini, Wade) that are better suited for pass protection we should consider playing to their strengths as well.

:applause:

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I understand the desire to throw more when the run game is ineffective. However, our O-line was so banged up, JC didn't have a lot of time to make throws. He was disrupted quite a bit in that game, and allowing even more passes could lead to more sacks, and possibly JC getting hurt. Gibbs said that the D was performing well, and so the team leaned on the D. The gameplan worked, and if not for the BS penalty on Fletcher, the game itself wouldn't have come down to the last minute. Hopefully we will be throwing more this Sunday, since Rabach is returning and other lineman are getting healthier. I don't buy this "JC is being held back" stuff, as JC had 37 pass attempts against Green Bay.

he hasnt been held back in the GB DET games. i agree, we definitely opened up in those two games, and both were dealing with makeshift olines. GB we just didnt execute, but it was a saunders gameplan. we threw the ball 20 times in the first half against GB to 17 runs. that isnt gibbs at all throwing 20 times in the first half. then we look at the cardinals game, and we threw the ball 11 times in the first half, which is half of what we did in the GB game. we tried to just pound the ball against the cardinals instead of spreading it around. weve gotta open up the offense so we can run more effectively, especially with our troubled oline.

The Pats can be run on, and I think we will see more of that again unless the Pats get a big lead early. Their D isn't what it was. The rankings disguise that a bit because NE has been forcing teams to abandon the run and pass heavily by scoring a lot early.

agreed, but im not so sure with the line we have now that this will work. i think if we had our real oline, this could work, but im not sure we can pull this off with the guys we have in there now.

As for the thread toic, this is only Saunders second season. He is having to work with an injury-depleted O-line and a QB starting his first full season. I know mnay of you don't have any patience what-so-ever, but try.

i have patience with campbell, but i dont have it with the coaches. theyre not letting him take shots down the field other than those heavebomb passes which are lowrisk because if you turn it over, its just like a punt. i wanna see over the middle, intermediate passes that stretch the field, campbell has an arm and hes not being allowed to use it. if our oline is damaged, he needs to be in shotgun to buy more time, pick up the blitz easier, and have more options at receiver to move the ball. max protect with 1/2 wr sets doesnt give him any options.

i have no problem with campbell making mistakes, but our coaches wont even let him make mistakes. how is he supposed to learn if he cannot make mistakes? we actually have a D this year that can allow him to make mistakes, and hes just making the safe throws right now. we have to get riskier to win games more comfortably.

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I understand the desire to throw more when the run game is ineffective. However, our O-line was so banged up, JC didn't have a lot of time to make throws. He was disrupted quite a bit in that game, and allowing even more passes could lead to more sacks, and possibly JC getting hurt. Gibbs said that the D was performing well, and so the team leaned on the D. The gameplan worked, and if not for the BS penalty on Fletcher, the game itself wouldn't have come down to the last minute. Hopefully we will be throwing more this Sunday, since Rabach is returning and other lineman are getting healthier. I don't buy this "JC is being held back" stuff, as JC had 37 pass attempts against Green Bay.

he hasnt been held back in the GB DET games. i agree, we definitely opened up in those two games, and both were dealing with makeshift olines. GB we just didnt execute, but it was a saunders gameplan. we threw the ball 20 times in the first half against GB to 17 runs. that isnt gibbs at all throwing 20 times in the first half. then we look at the cardinals game, and we threw the ball 11 times in the first half, which is half of what we did in the GB game. we tried to just pound the ball against the cardinals instead of spreading it around. weve gotta open up the offense so we can run more effectively, especially with our troubled oline.

The Pats can be run on, and I think we will see more of that again unless the Pats get a big lead early. Their D isn't what it was. The rankings disguise that a bit because NE has been forcing teams to abandon the run and pass heavily by scoring a lot early.

agreed, but im not so sure with the line we have now that this will work. i think if we had our real oline, this could work, but im not sure we can pull this off with the guys we have in there now.

As for the thread toic, this is only Saunders second season. He is having to work with an injury-depleted O-line and a QB starting his first full season. I know mnay of you don't have any patience what-so-ever, but try.

i have patience with campbell, but i dont have it with the coaches. theyre not letting him take shots down the field other than those heavebomb passes which are lowrisk because if you turn it over, its just like a punt. i wanna see over the middle, intermediate passes that stretch the field, campbell has an arm and hes not being allowed to use it. if our oline is damaged, he needs to be in shotgun to buy more time, pick up the blitz easier, and have more options at receiver to move the ball. max protect with 1/2 wr sets doesnt give him any options.

i have no problem with campbell making mistakes, but our coaches wont even let him make mistakes. how is he supposed to learn if he cannot make mistakes? we actually have a D this year that can allow him to make mistakes, and hes just making the safe throws right now. we have to get riskier to win games more comfortably.

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I understand not taking risks if your running game is dominant but like you said we are not running the ball with any consistancy. People say if we try to open it up our Oline will get smoked resulting in many hits on JC, I don't see our Oline that deficient in pass protection. I mean we have 3-carreer tackles (Samuels, Fabini, Wade) that are better suited for pass protection we should consider playing to their strengths as well. Again strive for balance but when we choose to throw not every play needs to be overly safe and to the outside (no one here is calling for run n' shoot offense, but c'mon).

Take shots, not only downfield, but also in that intermediate zone over the middle. I think our WR only run 3 patterns the out, the comeback, and the fly and they are all designed to be thorwn outside the numbers.

dead on again, we never go over the middle. its all outside stuff (the safe stuff) because we refuse to take chances. seriously, our WR run 3 routes, and our runningbacks have maybe 2 plays that we run. 700 pages for that? no way.

and agreed again, i didnt see a big problem in pass protection, it was only in the running game. i know pucillo got pwned once or twice, but it wasnt like every play dockett was coming through untouched. they were blitzing up the middle like woah, which means that whole area was exposed, yet we never exploited it. i think we tried like once.

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I understand not taking risks if your running game is dominant but like you said we are not running the ball with any consistancy. People say if we try to open it up our Oline will get smoked resulting in many hits on JC, I don't see our Oline that deficient in pass protection. I mean we have 3-carreer tackles (Samuels, Fabini, Wade) that are better suited for pass protection we should consider playing to their strengths as well. Again strive for balance but when we choose to throw not every play needs to be overly safe and to the outside (no one here is calling for run n' shoot offense, but c'mon).

Take shots, not only downfield, but also in that intermediate zone over the middle. I think our WR only run 3 patterns the out, the comeback, and the fly and they are all designed to be thorwn outside the numbers.

dead on again, we never go over the middle. its all outside stuff (the safe stuff) because we refuse to take chances. seriously, our WR run 3 routes, and our runningbacks have maybe 2 plays that we run. 700 pages for that? no way.

and agreed again, i didnt see a big problem in pass protection, it was only in the running game. i know pucillo got pwned once or twice, but it wasnt like every play dockett was coming through untouched. they were blitzing up the middle like woah, which means that whole area was exposed, yet we never exploited it. i think we tried like once.

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High passing numbers are not strictly limited to playing from behind. It can also be linked to teams that go for the kill.

*all stats from nfl.com

I have always agreed w/ that thinking in today's NFL. We don't go for the kill. Just let the other team hang out.

Prime example- our last posession at the end of the 1st half of the Cards game, instead of going long for a 21-0 lead, we call a ridiculous screen play!!!! How is that going for the jugular?!?!?

That's playing to lose, not playing to win

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High passing numbers are not strictly limited to playing from behind. It can also be linked to teams that go for the kill.

*all stats from nfl.com

I have always agreed w/ that thinking in today's NFL. We don't go for the kill. Just let the other team hang out.

Prime example- our last posession at the end of the 1st half of the Cards game, instead of going long for a 21-0 lead, we call a ridiculous screen play!!!! How is that going for the jugular?!?!?

That's playing to lose, not playing to win

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There is nothing wrong with the gameplans.

There is nothing wrong with running the football when you have a lead.

The Steelers did it for years under Cowher and he was something like 110-1 when he had a lead of 11 points or more.

Just because every other team wants to pass 50 times a game doesn't mean we should do that, too.

The problem is the effectiveness of the players.

In the 80s, every team knew what the Redskins were going to do. Belichick said the other day that the Redskins only had two plays. But we were effective, and even though they might have known what we were going to do they still couldn't stop us.

If we didn't drop the ball seven times at Green Bay we would have had far more yardage and probably scored more points.

If we could get more than 3 yrds a clip running, we would sustain drives and everyone would praise the genius gameplans of Gibbs and Saunders.

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There is nothing wrong with the gameplans.

There is nothing wrong with running the football when you have a lead.

The Steelers did it for years under Cowher and he was something like 110-1 when he had a lead of 11 points or more.

Just because every other team wants to pass 50 times a game doesn't mean we should do that, too.

The problem is the effectiveness of the players.

In the 80s, every team knew what the Redskins were going to do. Belichick said the other day that the Redskins only had two plays. But we were effective, and even though they might have known what we were going to do they still couldn't stop us.

If we didn't drop the ball seven times at Green Bay we would have had far more yardage and probably scored more points.

If we could get more than 3 yrds a clip running, we would sustain drives and everyone would praise the genius gameplans of Gibbs and Saunders.

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Look at the Cardinals they run Edge in to a brick wall but when they choose to thorw the ball they actually thorw down the field a little bit more. Same with the Pittsburg Steelers when they can't run it they pass it more aggresively (Denver game).

Gibbs would point out that the downfield passing the Cardinals did resulted in two interceptions, one of which was returned 50 yards to set up a touchdown, and another that was returned for a TD.

Those types of things are exactly what Gibbs is "afraid of" and I don't blame him.

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Look at the Cardinals they run Edge in to a brick wall but when they choose to thorw the ball they actually thorw down the field a little bit more. Same with the Pittsburg Steelers when they can't run it they pass it more aggresively (Denver game).

Gibbs would point out that the downfield passing the Cardinals did resulted in two interceptions, one of which was returned 50 yards to set up a touchdown, and another that was returned for a TD.

Those types of things are exactly what Gibbs is "afraid of" and I don't blame him.

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I have always agreed w/ that thinking in today's NFL. We don't go for the kill. Just let the other team hang out.

Prime example- our last posession at the end of the 1st half of the Cards game, instead of going long for a 21-0 lead, we call a ridiculous screen play!!!! How is that going for the jugular?!?!?

That's playing to lose, not playing to win

We were near midfield. If the Cards' DE doesn't make a sick athletic play, that pass, which was brilliantly choreographed, would have had us down to their 30 at least, with plenty of time to score a TD or a FG. There was absoultely nothing wrong with that play call; the Cards just made a fantastic play on it.

That play had nothing to do with "playing not to lose" and exploited the exact weakness in the coverage the Cards showed.

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I have always agreed w/ that thinking in today's NFL. We don't go for the kill. Just let the other team hang out.

Prime example- our last posession at the end of the 1st half of the Cards game, instead of going long for a 21-0 lead, we call a ridiculous screen play!!!! How is that going for the jugular?!?!?

That's playing to lose, not playing to win

We were near midfield. If the Cards' DE doesn't make a sick athletic play, that pass, which was brilliantly choreographed, would have had us down to their 30 at least, with plenty of time to score a TD or a FG. There was absoultely nothing wrong with that play call; the Cards just made a fantastic play on it.

That play had nothing to do with "playing not to lose" and exploited the exact weakness in the coverage the Cards showed.

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Gibbs would point out that the downfield passing the Cardinals did resulted in two interceptions, one of which was returned 50 yards to set up a touchdown, and another that was returned for a TD.

Those types of things are exactly what Gibbs is "afraid of" and I don't blame him.

Thats true but Im not saying we should be chucking every time. All I ask is for a bit more of it...even lining up 3 WR (not Cooley split out) would make for more options down the field (even if JC does check down to a safe route it give a defence more to think about). Last few games (due to OL injuries, i assume) we have not seen many 3 WR sets, I wont even mention 4 since I don't think such a formation is in our playbook at the moment (probably rightfully so at this point).

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