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Al Saunders' Offensive (Passing) Stats by Team KC & WAS (Kind of Long)


#98QBKiller

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LISTEN PEOPLE!!!!!

Our lack of offensive numbers doesnt come from the fact that we run more than we pass. Our players just dont execute! We cant execute the passing plays we do call (over throws, dropped passes, wrong routes), so what makes anyone think that we will pass more?

For all of you who don't like the play selection please keep one thing in mind.

Joe Gibb's philosophy is being BALANCED on offense. We are going to mix the run in with the pass. It's just that simple!! So you can complain about passing more all you want, but its just not going to happen unless we get down in a football game. When our players learn how to execute the offense precisely then we will see more variety in the passing game. But we will still basically be a 50-50 run pass team. It's the type of team strategy that wins in the playoffs. (Colts didnt win a superbowl until they started running the football more. steelers were a run first team with Cower.etc..)

It's all about perfecting the coach's philosophy, not pleasing the stat book in the NFL.

Very true!!!:applause: Unfortunately, all of the armchair coaches on this board will NEVER see/admit it. The fact is as talented as our offense is supposed to be, they have truly underperformed this season. It has nothing to do with play calling. Saunders nor Gibbs draw up plays that end with "and receiver drops ball," or "receiver fumbles ball," or "QB overthrows open receiver by ten yards," etc.
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LISTEN PEOPLE!!!!!

Our lack of offensive numbers doesnt come from the fact that we run more than we pass. Our players just dont execute! We cant execute the passing plays we do call (over throws, dropped passes, wrong routes), so what makes anyone think that we will pass more?

For all of you who don't like the play selection please keep one thing in mind.

Joe Gibb's philosophy is being BALANCED on offense. We are going to mix the run in with the pass. It's just that simple!! So you can complain about passing more all you want, but its just not going to happen unless we get down in a football game. When our players learn how to execute the offense precisely then we will see more variety in the passing game. But we will still basically be a 50-50 run pass team. It's the type of team strategy that wins in the playoffs. (Colts didnt win a superbowl until they started running the football more. steelers were a run first team with Cower.etc..)

It's all about perfecting the coach's philosophy, not pleasing the stat book in the NFL.

Very true!!!:applause: Unfortunately, all of the armchair coaches on this board will NEVER see/admit it. The fact is as talented as our offense is supposed to be, they have truly underperformed this season. It has nothing to do with play calling. Saunders nor Gibbs draw up plays that end with "and receiver drops ball," or "receiver fumbles ball," or "QB overthrows open receiver by ten yards," etc.
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Very true!!!:applause: Unfortunately, all of the armchair coaches on this board will NEVER see/admit it. The fact is as talented as our offense is supposed to be, they have truly underperformed this season. It has nothing to do with play calling. Saunders nor Gibbs draw up plays that end with "and receiver drops ball," or "receiver fumbles ball," or "QB overthrows open receiver by ten yards," etc.

Execution is a function of practice and coaching...

Real quick lets look back at the Skins offense since Gibbs has come back.

2004 Offense

#30 Overall 274.8 yards a game

#29 Passing 164.5 yards a game

#21 Rushing 110.3 yards a game

#31 Scoring 15 points a game

2005 Offense

#11 Overall 330.6 yards a game

#21 Passing 194.1 yards a game

#7 Rushing 136.4 yards a game

#13 Scoring 22.4 points a game

2006 Offense

#13 Overall 327.7 yards a game

#21 Passing 189.2 yards a game

#4 Rushing 138.5 yards a game

#20 Scoring 19.2 points a game

2007 Offense (So Far)

#25 Overall 304.5 yards a game

#25 Passing 189.8 yards a game

#16 Rushing 114.7 yards a game

#22 Scoring 20.3 points a game.

We have never once ranked above the top 20 in passing, not once. Only once have the skins ranked in the top 15 in scoring. Low and behold that was the year we made the playoffs.

Lets look at the last 4 superbowl winners passing/scoring numbers.

2007 Indy (2006 regular season)

#2 Passing 269.2 yards a game

#2 Scoring 26.7 points a game

2006 Steelers (2005 regular season)

#24 Passing 182.9 yards a game

#9 Scoring 24.3 points a game

2005 Pats (2004 regularly season)

#11 Passing 224.2 yards a game

#4 Scoring 27.3 points a game

2004 Pats (2003 regular season)

#9 Passing 214.5 yards a game

#12 Scoring 21.8 points a game

All the teams except one where in the top 12 of passing and all the teams were in the top 12 of scoring.

Looking at this valuing a low scoring protect the lead run the ball type offense doesn't seem to lead to the ultimate goal. The offense we are seeing this year is reminiscent of 2004, the ultimate in Gibbs conservatism.

I highly doubt we're seeing a Al Saunders called games, we're seeing a Al Saunders called game with Gibbs constantly putting his input in and nixing the aggressive approach. :2cents:

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Very true!!!:applause: Unfortunately, all of the armchair coaches on this board will NEVER see/admit it. The fact is as talented as our offense is supposed to be, they have truly underperformed this season. It has nothing to do with play calling. Saunders nor Gibbs draw up plays that end with "and receiver drops ball," or "receiver fumbles ball," or "QB overthrows open receiver by ten yards," etc.

Execution is a function of practice and coaching...

Real quick lets look back at the Skins offense since Gibbs has come back.

2004 Offense

#30 Overall 274.8 yards a game

#29 Passing 164.5 yards a game

#21 Rushing 110.3 yards a game

#31 Scoring 15 points a game

2005 Offense

#11 Overall 330.6 yards a game

#21 Passing 194.1 yards a game

#7 Rushing 136.4 yards a game

#13 Scoring 22.4 points a game

2006 Offense

#13 Overall 327.7 yards a game

#21 Passing 189.2 yards a game

#4 Rushing 138.5 yards a game

#20 Scoring 19.2 points a game

2007 Offense (So Far)

#25 Overall 304.5 yards a game

#25 Passing 189.8 yards a game

#16 Rushing 114.7 yards a game

#22 Scoring 20.3 points a game.

We have never once ranked above the top 20 in passing, not once. Only once have the skins ranked in the top 15 in scoring. Low and behold that was the year we made the playoffs.

Lets look at the last 4 superbowl winners passing/scoring numbers.

2007 Indy (2006 regular season)

#2 Passing 269.2 yards a game

#2 Scoring 26.7 points a game

2006 Steelers (2005 regular season)

#24 Passing 182.9 yards a game

#9 Scoring 24.3 points a game

2005 Pats (2004 regularly season)

#11 Passing 224.2 yards a game

#4 Scoring 27.3 points a game

2004 Pats (2003 regular season)

#9 Passing 214.5 yards a game

#12 Scoring 21.8 points a game

All the teams except one where in the top 12 of passing and all the teams were in the top 12 of scoring.

Looking at this valuing a low scoring protect the lead run the ball type offense doesn't seem to lead to the ultimate goal. The offense we are seeing this year is reminiscent of 2004, the ultimate in Gibbs conservatism.

I highly doubt we're seeing a Al Saunders called games, we're seeing a Al Saunders called game with Gibbs constantly putting his input in and nixing the aggressive approach. :2cents:

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In 2007 the top ten offenses are their respective ranks for defense

1. New England 4 #1 in passing yards

2. Dallas 7 #4 in passing yards

3. Indy 3 #6 in passing yards

4. Cincy 29 #2 in passing yards

5. Denver 20 #11 in passing yards

6. Pitt 1 #23 in passing yards

7. Cleveland 32 #8 in passing yards

8. Philly 11 #14 in passing yards

9. NY (Giants) 8 #16 in passing yards

10. Houston 21 #5 in passing yards

Of the top 10 offenses 5 have a top 10 defense. Of those five teams 3 have a top 10 ranking in passing yards per game.

Of those 3 teams none are a top 5 rushing team. The colts are #6 the pats are #7 and the boys are #10.

Those three teams are the Pats, Colts and Boys. Guess what? The Boys are #1 in the NFC and the Pats & Colts are #1a and #1b.

So three teams that are best in their respective divisions throw the ball a whole lot. How much?

The colts have rushed the ball 190 times and thrown the ball 202 times.

The pats have rushed the ball 224 times and thrown 232 times.

The boys have rushed 191 and thrown 239 times.

They all throw more than they run yet have a top 10 defense and still throw more.

High passing numbers are not strictly limited to playing from behind. It can also be linked to teams that go for the kill.

*all stats from nfl.com

We're talking about passing attempts not passing yards. Reread my post, I stated KCs attempts were so high due to their defense getting scored on so much. I'm not sure how that doesn't make sense, but we can look at some stats for this year to back it up anyways.

Here are the top 10 offenses in the NFL for pass attempts per game:

1. Packers 41 att/game

2. Saints 41

3. Ravens 39

4. Bengals 37

5. Rams 37

6. Bears 36

7. Cardinals 36

8. Dolphins 35

9. Lions 35

10. Falcons 35

Now, let's take a look at the bottom 10 defenses in the NFL for points/game:

32. Dolphins 33 pts/game

31. Bengals 31

30. Browns 31

29. Lions 29

28. Jets 27

27. Rams 27

26. Broncos 27

25. Saints 25

24. Texans 25

23. Bears 24

6 out of the 10 teams with most attempts per game have a defense that's in the bottom 10 for points/game. We all know Green Bay has absolutely no running game which is why they pass so much.

Only 3 out of those 10 teams with most passing attempts have a winning record.

All your stats show are that teams with a very SUCCESSFUL passing game and a good defense are doing well. I didn't need to see stats to understand that. The same as I didn't really need to see stats to understand that teams that are losing pass more often.

Even after all of that, in my initial post, I stated I think we should open it up more. However, if we can't execute, we're going to be in the same boat, you know the boat where everyone complains about the playcalling when we don't move the ball.

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In 2007 the top ten offenses are their respective ranks for defense

1. New England 4 #1 in passing yards

2. Dallas 7 #4 in passing yards

3. Indy 3 #6 in passing yards

4. Cincy 29 #2 in passing yards

5. Denver 20 #11 in passing yards

6. Pitt 1 #23 in passing yards

7. Cleveland 32 #8 in passing yards

8. Philly 11 #14 in passing yards

9. NY (Giants) 8 #16 in passing yards

10. Houston 21 #5 in passing yards

Of the top 10 offenses 5 have a top 10 defense. Of those five teams 3 have a top 10 ranking in passing yards per game.

Of those 3 teams none are a top 5 rushing team. The colts are #6 the pats are #7 and the boys are #10.

Those three teams are the Pats, Colts and Boys. Guess what? The Boys are #1 in the NFC and the Pats & Colts are #1a and #1b.

So three teams that are best in their respective divisions throw the ball a whole lot. How much?

The colts have rushed the ball 190 times and thrown the ball 202 times.

The pats have rushed the ball 224 times and thrown 232 times.

The boys have rushed 191 and thrown 239 times.

They all throw more than they run yet have a top 10 defense and still throw more.

High passing numbers are not strictly limited to playing from behind. It can also be linked to teams that go for the kill.

*all stats from nfl.com

We're talking about passing attempts not passing yards. Reread my post, I stated KCs attempts were so high due to their defense getting scored on so much. I'm not sure how that doesn't make sense, but we can look at some stats for this year to back it up anyways.

Here are the top 10 offenses in the NFL for pass attempts per game:

1. Packers 41 att/game

2. Saints 41

3. Ravens 39

4. Bengals 37

5. Rams 37

6. Bears 36

7. Cardinals 36

8. Dolphins 35

9. Lions 35

10. Falcons 35

Now, let's take a look at the bottom 10 defenses in the NFL for points/game:

32. Dolphins 33 pts/game

31. Bengals 31

30. Browns 31

29. Lions 29

28. Jets 27

27. Rams 27

26. Broncos 27

25. Saints 25

24. Texans 25

23. Bears 24

6 out of the 10 teams with most attempts per game have a defense that's in the bottom 10 for points/game. We all know Green Bay has absolutely no running game which is why they pass so much.

Only 3 out of those 10 teams with most passing attempts have a winning record.

All your stats show are that teams with a very SUCCESSFUL passing game and a good defense are doing well. I didn't need to see stats to understand that. The same as I didn't really need to see stats to understand that teams that are losing pass more often.

Even after all of that, in my initial post, I stated I think we should open it up more. However, if we can't execute, we're going to be in the same boat, you know the boat where everyone complains about the playcalling when we don't move the ball.

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Last year everybody blamed Brunell. Now it Gibbs fault. Two years ago when Gibbs was calling the plays and MB was the qb nobody was saying nothing. Either way the offense reaks to high heaven. I'm starting to think that ES is turning into a bi*** and moan board. I personally feel that after the 2005 season we should have signed a wr or two and keep it moving with JG calling the shots.

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Last year everybody blamed Brunell. Now it Gibbs fault. Two years ago when Gibbs was calling the plays and MB was the qb nobody was saying nothing. Either way the offense reaks to high heaven. I'm starting to think that ES is turning into a bi*** and moan board. I personally feel that after the 2005 season we should have signed a wr or two and keep it moving with JG calling the shots.

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Tells us that there are 10 teams with really good offensive lines.

That OL that Saunders had in KC was probably the best in the NFL. That running attack had a LOT more to do with Will Shields and Willie Roaf than it ever did LJ or Priest.

Right now, we have an OL that is among the 5 worst in the league.

i remember our line being healthy for the first two games, and we barely beat the dolphins at home, and we stopped philly on the 2 yard line while time expired, neither of them were dominating offensive performances.

honestly, is our offense that much different without our line? we bludgeoned an awful lions defense, other than that, weve been pretty consistent with mediocrity.

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Tells us that there are 10 teams with really good offensive lines.

That OL that Saunders had in KC was probably the best in the NFL. That running attack had a LOT more to do with Will Shields and Willie Roaf than it ever did LJ or Priest.

Right now, we have an OL that is among the 5 worst in the league.

i remember our line being healthy for the first two games, and we barely beat the dolphins at home, and we stopped philly on the 2 yard line while time expired, neither of them were dominating offensive performances.

honestly, is our offense that much different without our line? we bludgeoned an awful lions defense, other than that, weve been pretty consistent with mediocrity.

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There's a difference between playing conservative and what we are doing. I mean its pretty bad when I can sit at home and call most of the plays. Lets see run, run, 3rd and long pass or run, short pass, 3rd and long pass. Lets not forget my favorite play punting. We do a lot of that every game.

no joke, you can look at our formation, and in 3 seconds know exactly what were gonna do. it was painful calling out plays with the fans in my section at the game. and if a bunch of fans in the stands know whats coming, think of what a professional defense/coaching staff know?

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There's a difference between playing conservative and what we are doing. I mean its pretty bad when I can sit at home and call most of the plays. Lets see run, run, 3rd and long pass or run, short pass, 3rd and long pass. Lets not forget my favorite play punting. We do a lot of that every game.

no joke, you can look at our formation, and in 3 seconds know exactly what were gonna do. it was painful calling out plays with the fans in my section at the game. and if a bunch of fans in the stands know whats coming, think of what a professional defense/coaching staff know?

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i remember our line being healthy for the first two games, and we barely beat the dolphins at home, and we stopped philly on the 2 yard line while time expired, neither of them were dominating offensive performances.

Granted this statement is true, those two game we also ran the ball with damn good sucsess. Almost 200 yards against a decent Miami defense and over 130 against the Eagles. If we were able to continue with that type of running sucsess in the later games Im sure we would not have lost some of the game we did (especially the giants). It may have lead to different approaches to games later on in the year.

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i remember our line being healthy for the first two games, and we barely beat the dolphins at home, and we stopped philly on the 2 yard line while time expired, neither of them were dominating offensive performances.

Granted this statement is true, those two game we also ran the ball with damn good sucsess. Almost 200 yards against a decent Miami defense and over 130 against the Eagles. If we were able to continue with that type of running sucsess in the later games Im sure we would not have lost some of the game we did (especially the giants). It may have lead to different approaches to games later on in the year.

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Dont bother posting facts ...

people will only ignore them in order for them to keep their faith in their god...

Whats funny is the way Al saunders speaks about offense in interviews....

yesterday when asked about 160 yards total offense he laghed and said

"oh god..well im used to having 160 yard qtrs "....:laugh:

and went on to say but...

"we are a run first football team "..

and he also said

" at first we were trying to do things to Keep jason out of trouble and kind of minimize the risk.. but i think its time that we kind of turn him loose and let him do some of the things that he is capable of doing "

Thats from the OC's mouth......

so if he feels we should air it out..

There is only one other reason why we havent right?...

:laugh:

ugh, that makes me even more upset to read that from saunders. so our own OC says he wants to turn campbell loose. gee, wonder why he hasnt been?

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Dont bother posting facts ...

people will only ignore them in order for them to keep their faith in their god...

Whats funny is the way Al saunders speaks about offense in interviews....

yesterday when asked about 160 yards total offense he laghed and said

"oh god..well im used to having 160 yard qtrs "....:laugh:

and went on to say but...

"we are a run first football team "..

and he also said

" at first we were trying to do things to Keep jason out of trouble and kind of minimize the risk.. but i think its time that we kind of turn him loose and let him do some of the things that he is capable of doing "

Thats from the OC's mouth......

so if he feels we should air it out..

There is only one other reason why we havent right?...

:laugh:

ugh, that makes me even more upset to read that from saunders. so our own OC says he wants to turn campbell loose. gee, wonder why he hasnt been?

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Granted this statement is true, those two game we also ran the ball with damn good sucsess. Almost 200 yards against a decent Miami defense and over 130 against the Eagles. If we were able to continue with that type of running sucsess in the later games Im sure we would not have lost some of the game we did (especially the giants). It may have lead to different approaches to games later on in the year.

agreed, the run game was much better, but again, we didnt throw the ball very well. campbell had 222 (and 54 of that was the fluke throw to randle el at the end of the game), and he had 209 against the eagles, which was decent.

when are we gonna see a good 300+ yard game from campbell? gibbs cant honestly just expect him to throw short dump offs all day while we drain the clock on long stupid drives and let our defense take all the heat in the second half? if you actually think about it, its more risky to sit on the lead because you can spend 10 minutes draining the clock, fumble the ball, and their O will just start playing risky offense. and weve all seen first hand that when teams open it up and play a little risky, our defense has had trouble stopping them.

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Granted this statement is true, those two game we also ran the ball with damn good sucsess. Almost 200 yards against a decent Miami defense and over 130 against the Eagles. If we were able to continue with that type of running sucsess in the later games Im sure we would not have lost some of the game we did (especially the giants). It may have lead to different approaches to games later on in the year.

agreed, the run game was much better, but again, we didnt throw the ball very well. campbell had 222 (and 54 of that was the fluke throw to randle el at the end of the game), and he had 209 against the eagles, which was decent.

when are we gonna see a good 300+ yard game from campbell? gibbs cant honestly just expect him to throw short dump offs all day while we drain the clock on long stupid drives and let our defense take all the heat in the second half? if you actually think about it, its more risky to sit on the lead because you can spend 10 minutes draining the clock, fumble the ball, and their O will just start playing risky offense. and weve all seen first hand that when teams open it up and play a little risky, our defense has had trouble stopping them.

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agreed, the run game was much better, but again, we didnt throw the ball very well. campbell had 222 (and 54 of that was the fluke throw to randle el at the end of the game), and he had 209 against the eagles, which was decent.

when are we gonna see a good 300+ yard game from campbell? gibbs cant honestly just expect him to throw short dump offs all day while we drain the clock on long stupid drives and let our defense take all the heat in the second half? if you actually think about it, its more risky to sit on the lead because you can spend 10 minutes draining the clock, fumble the ball, and their O will just start playing risky offense. and weve all seen first hand that when teams open it up and play a little risky, our defense has had trouble stopping them.

I did not mind the game planning (run run run and low risk thorws) for the first two weeks since that was obviously our strength coming into the year (with a healthy offensive line). Having said that, it is now obviously a weakness that needs to be adressed by changing the philosophy slightly. I would still like to be balanced but the throws we choose to make should be a little more high risk/aggressive and downfield. Until this Oline prooves it can run block consistantly we should be calling more risky passes to intermediate zones to compinsate.

Look at the Cardinals they run Edge in to a brick wall but when they choose to thorw the ball they actually thorw down the field a little bit more. Same with the Pittsburg Steelers when they can't run it they pass it more aggresively (Denver game).

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agreed, the run game was much better, but again, we didnt throw the ball very well. campbell had 222 (and 54 of that was the fluke throw to randle el at the end of the game), and he had 209 against the eagles, which was decent.

when are we gonna see a good 300+ yard game from campbell? gibbs cant honestly just expect him to throw short dump offs all day while we drain the clock on long stupid drives and let our defense take all the heat in the second half? if you actually think about it, its more risky to sit on the lead because you can spend 10 minutes draining the clock, fumble the ball, and their O will just start playing risky offense. and weve all seen first hand that when teams open it up and play a little risky, our defense has had trouble stopping them.

I did not mind the game planning (run run run and low risk thorws) for the first two weeks since that was obviously our strength coming into the year (with a healthy offensive line). Having said that, it is now obviously a weakness that needs to be adressed by changing the philosophy slightly. I would still like to be balanced but the throws we choose to make should be a little more high risk/aggressive and downfield. Until this Oline prooves it can run block consistantly we should be calling more risky passes to intermediate zones to compinsate.

Look at the Cardinals they run Edge in to a brick wall but when they choose to thorw the ball they actually thorw down the field a little bit more. Same with the Pittsburg Steelers when they can't run it they pass it more aggresively (Denver game).

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I did not mind the game planning (run run run and low risk thorws) for the first two weeks since that was obviously our strength coming into the year (with a healthy offensive line). Having said that, it is now obviously a weakness that needs to be adressed by changing the philosophy slightly. I would still like to be balanced but the throws we choose to make should be a little more high risk/aggressive and downfield. Until this Oline prooves it can run block consistantly we should be calling more risky passes to intermediate zones to compinsate.

Look at the Cardinals they run Edge in to a brick wall but when they choose to thorw the ball they actually thorw down the field a little bit more. Same with the Pittsburg Steelers when they can't run it they pass it more aggresively (Denver game).

i agree with you 100%, and both of your examples are great. the cards pounded edge 27 times for 80 something yards, but they opened up the passing game on us big time. when parker cant get it going, ben is heaving it everywhere to miller or holmes or ward. we have as much talent if not more than both of these teams, yet were not using it.

its the risk that we wont take that bothers me. and whats even worse, now we have a great defense so we should be taking even MORE shots, because whats the worst that happens? we turn it over, and our defense shuts them down, we get the ball back, and we try again. its not like last year where we had to play it safe because our defense couldnt stop a pee wee football team.

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I did not mind the game planning (run run run and low risk thorws) for the first two weeks since that was obviously our strength coming into the year (with a healthy offensive line). Having said that, it is now obviously a weakness that needs to be adressed by changing the philosophy slightly. I would still like to be balanced but the throws we choose to make should be a little more high risk/aggressive and downfield. Until this Oline prooves it can run block consistantly we should be calling more risky passes to intermediate zones to compinsate.

Look at the Cardinals they run Edge in to a brick wall but when they choose to thorw the ball they actually thorw down the field a little bit more. Same with the Pittsburg Steelers when they can't run it they pass it more aggresively (Denver game).

i agree with you 100%, and both of your examples are great. the cards pounded edge 27 times for 80 something yards, but they opened up the passing game on us big time. when parker cant get it going, ben is heaving it everywhere to miller or holmes or ward. we have as much talent if not more than both of these teams, yet were not using it.

its the risk that we wont take that bothers me. and whats even worse, now we have a great defense so we should be taking even MORE shots, because whats the worst that happens? we turn it over, and our defense shuts them down, we get the ball back, and we try again. its not like last year where we had to play it safe because our defense couldnt stop a pee wee football team.

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