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MSF Has his Day in Court (RE-Updated)


Mass_SkinsFan

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By now most of you know that one of my main hobbies is a considerable amount of involvement in a medieval recreation group called the Society for Creative Anachronism. Some of you may even remember that last spring I commented that I'd heard some unsubstantiated rumors that I might be up for an award from the East Kingdom. Well, those rumors have a lot more substance at this point, and it's causing me some mental anguish and guilt.

I've been involved in the SCA off and on for about a decade and a half. In the last six to seven years I've been very active, and have taken on several more prominant and public positions both in the local group (Shire of Quintavia) and at the Kingdom level (East Kingdom).

Five years ago, when I was granted the lowest level award available on the Kingdom level (an Award of Arms), they had a tough time finding accomplishments to list on the scroll. In fact they went so far as to include the words "and future contributions to the Shire and Kingdom". That was fine with me. I was more than happy to be the guy who does the work and didn't get noticed.

Since then I've held an elected office in the Shire (Shire Marshal for Siege Weapons), become a warranted marshal in two different combat forms (Siege & Combat Archery), held a deputy Kingdom level office and now hold that office (East Kingdom Central Region Siege Marshal), and worked at probably a dozen events in positions ranging from gopher to Property Master (head of the operations staff). Additionally, because of my "memorable" appearance I've been credited with working at a lot of events that I never even attended.

I'd heard the rumors early this season that there were people pushing for me to be nominated for a Kingdom level award called the "Silver Crescent". Here's the description from East Kingdom Law....

"The Order of the Silver Crescent (established June 13, A.S. 6 by Akbar III and Khadijah III) may be given to gentles in the East Kingdom who have distinguished themselves by service to the Kingdom, whether by long service within one of the areas of the Kingdom whereby the entire Kingdom is held to benefit, or by continuing service in ways which directly benefit a large portion of the Kingdom."

Well, so far as I'm concerned what I've done doesn't meet those requirements. Hell, I'm of the opinion that what I've done doesn't even come close to meeting those requirements. Especially the the "benefit a large portion of the Kingdom" portion of it. Unfortunately it would appear that a number of other people are in significant disagreement with me on this issue.

Now before everyone gets on their high horse and tells me to stop acting like a martyr and just accept the award and smile about it, let me tell you that's exactly what I intend to do if/when this occurs. I've gotten very good at smiling, shutting up, and just going with the flow at SCA events. That's not the problem.

The problem is that I have a very difficult time accepting the idea that I worthy of receiving this award. It's not the highest level award for service there is, but it's a stepping stone towards the Society Level award for service (Order of the Pelican). I am not sure how I would/will deal with this issue. For numerous reasons turning it down isn't a reasonable option and there's no procedure for saying "Get back to me in a year and we'll see if I think I'm ready". I'm just not sure how to deal with this, internally. I am sure that I would/will feel guilty putting on the medallion that comes with membership in the Order.

Any reasonable, constructive, serious advice that people can and will give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

MSF/Scott

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I think that frequently when we are very interested/involved/commited to somehting we feel that what we are doing is just par for the course. In these cases perhaps the opinions of others on the work that we do is the better judge of value.

Take it as a compliment and run with it, im sure there is a reason that the others thought you were the right person, whether you can see it or not.

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well the thing about awards is that they are, for the most part, given to people by groups because said group feels that the recipient is deserving.

none of it is up to the recipient to decide. So you really have no right to decide if you're deserving or not. It's not up to you. That's how awards work.

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well the thing about awards is that they are, for the most part, given to people by groups because said group feels that the recipient is deserving.

none of it is up to the recipient to decide. So you really have no right to decide if you're deserving or not. It's not up to you. That's how awards work.

There's your answer, Mass. If you do receive it, they feel that you deserve it. You should be proud.

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There's your answer, Mass. If you do receive it, they feel that you deserve it. You should be proud.

The problem isn't whether they think I deserve it or not. There's a polling involved in the process and Their Royal Majesties are involved in the decision and so on. I know several of the people who have been fairly instrumental in the process of pushing for me to get this award. They're mostly fairly influential people in this regard. Obviously if they give it to me THEY think I deserve it.

The problem comes in that I'm not sure I deserve it. I'm just not sure how I will/would react to now being the newest member of an Order that I wasn't sure I truly belonged in. How do I look somebody in the eye and tell them that I'm a member of that Order if I don't believe I deserve to be included in? Additionally, being a member of that Order improves my position in the East Kingdom Order of Precedence (the list of Who's Who for the Kingdom). Most importantly how do I set myself up to be a role model for others who seek to become members of the Order when I don't believe that I belong in it?

Probably the best mundane situation I can compare it to is getting a mid-level promotion you don't feel you deserve and aren't sure you can handle the duties that will be required of you.

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Probably the best mundane situation I can compare it to is getting a mid-level promotion you don't feel you deserve and aren't sure you can handle the duties that will be required of you.

I've never turned down a promotion but I have turned down requests to apply for jobs that I do not want or that I don't feel I would be good at.

However, jobs actually involve duties.

This is a reward. Either take it, feel honored, and smile. Or politely decline.

Too many of these questions of yours are simple either/or choices that you infuse with far far far far too much drama.

Here is my answer to every future question that you have:

"I don't know, Mass. Either try to get along with everyone or suck it up, do what your twisted heart is telling you, and piss everyone off. Whichever you are most comfortable with."

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I don't know if you've earned it, but I do know that you've been heavily involved in safety issues, in running events, in PR for the group. Heck, if nothing else, you introduced this society via the internet to a market of fifty thousand people just by telling Extremeskins about it and sharing your passion. Increasing market awareness through events and through the internet and thus helping with recruitment or monies is something every society likes. I'm sure your kingdom likes the fact that its reputation is enlarged and improved due to the sweat of your brow.

This isn't a part time hobby for you, it is a part of you. You work on it and think about it and talk about it all the time. Maybe this award is an accumulation of nothings that added up to a huge something, maybe it's an acknowledgement of superior devotion, or maybe it's because the events you helped to pull off recently have been top drawer.

In any case, guilt is a wasted emotion 80% of the time. It's counterproductive. Unless there's a hidden agenda to this, then be glad that you have won them over and they find you worthy. They aren't struggling to find accolades any more. They are shouting, "Huzzah"

(and soon, when you have their full faith, then your plan to poison the Royals and take over the Kingdom can commense. By the way, there's a good sale on serpent venem at Target. Mwahahahahaha)

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I don't know if you've earned it, but I do know that you've been heavily involved in safety issues, in running events, in PR for the group. Heck, if nothing else, you introduced this society via the internet to a market of fifty thousand people just by telling Extremeskins about it and sharing your passion. Increasing market awareness through events and through the internet and thus helping with recruitment or monies is something every society likes. I'm sure your kingdom likes the fact that its reputation is enlarged and improved due to the sweat of your brow.

Being heavily involved isn't what a Silver Crescent is supposed to be for, Burgold. It's also not a PR award, since the SCA really doesn't do much in the way of advertisement outside the group. It's SUPPOSED to be for people who have done things which have significant benefit to the entire Kingdom. The stuff I do doesn't benefit the entire Kingdom. It benefits a very small part of the Kingdom. Kind of think of the requirements as a somewhat smaller version of the "service project" requirement for Eagle Scouts in the BSA.

This isn't a part time hobby for you, it is a part of you. You work on it and think about it and talk about it all the time. Maybe this award is an accumulation of nothings that added up to a huge something, maybe it's an acknowledgement of superior devotion, or maybe it's because the events you helped to pull off recently have been top drawer.

You're right that this isn't a part time hobby for me. Largely because it's one of my few escapes from the stresses and annoyances of the Real, Mundane World.

Again, this is not supposed to be a devotion award. That award (called an Award of Arms) I already have. I really hope it's not being based on the two or three recent events I've worked at, because while they were great events, that's not what the award is supposed to be for either.

In any case, guilt is a wasted emotion 80% of the time. It's counterproductive. Unless there's a hidden agenda to this, then be glad that you have won them over and they find you worthy. They aren't struggling to find accolades any more. They are shouting, "Huzzah"

I don't think there is an agenda, but getting this award does come with some expectations and duties. They're not obscenely large, but they are there and getting the award does put one in a much brighter spotlight.

BTW - Well done with the "huzzah". The other option would be "vivat".

(and soon, when you have their full faith, then your plan to poison the Royals and take over the Kingdom can commense. By the way, there's a good sale on serpent venem at Target. Mwahahahahaha)

Nah. I like our current Royals. I fought with Andreas' boys at Pennsic this year and gained even more respect for him and his household/army than I'd had in the past. We're on a first name basis at this point. He calls me "Harald" and I call him "Your Majesty" :silly:

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The problem isn't whether they think I deserve it or not. There's a polling involved in the process and Their Royal Majesties are involved in the decision and so on. I know several of the people who have been fairly instrumental in the process of pushing for me to get this award. They're mostly fairly influential people in this regard. Obviously if they give it to me THEY think I deserve it.

The problem comes in that I'm not sure I deserve it. I'm just not sure how I will/would react to now being the newest member of an Order that I wasn't sure I truly belonged in. How do I look somebody in the eye and tell them that I'm a member of that Order if I don't believe I deserve to be included in? Additionally, being a member of that Order improves my position in the East Kingdom Order of Precedence (the list of Who's Who for the Kingdom). Most importantly how do I set myself up to be a role model for others who seek to become members of the Order when I don't believe that I belong in it?

Probably the best mundane situation I can compare it to is getting a mid-level promotion you don't feel you deserve and aren't sure you can handle the duties that will be required of you.

Mass last summer I was at the Air Forces NCO academy at Kirkland AFB, NM. We had the pleasure of having a Medal of Honor recipient speak to us on his career and the events warranting his award of the medal. Also, we watched a film with commentary from several other MOA recipients and they all had one thing in common. None of them thought they did anything to deserve it. They all felt they were doing their job and did nothing significant that any other person wouldn't do in the same situation.

Now, this is no MOA we're talking about but if you've done enough to have people nominate or champion you in receiving this award then you should feel honored and privilaged no matter if you feel like you deserve it or not. Obviously you do or there wouldn't be people supporting you. :2cents:

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If they think you deserve it, be gracious and accept.

Sometimes to be honorable, you have to swallow a little pride. There is value in being humble among your fellows. And sometimes being humble means you have to allow praise. I would bet that this issue stems from your own personal discomfort of being singled out. This would be a fine opportunity for you to step away from that for a while, and actually enjoy the accolades of your fellows. They think you genuinely deserve it, so you should accept and enjoy the hands of fellowship that are being extended to you.

As usual, you seem to be putting roadblocks in your own path. It isn't necessary. Obviously these people accept you for who you are and it also seems they have a healthy respect for you.

Grace, my man, is a big part of chivalry.

~Bang

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Now, this is no MOA we're talking about but if you've done enough to have people nominate or champion you in receiving this award then you should feel honored and privilaged no matter if you feel like you deserve it or not. Obviously you do or there wouldn't be people supporting you. :2cents:

You're right this is no MOA we're talking about. It isn't even in the same galaxy as that award. Thanks for the input and viewpoint though.

Stop worrying about it ... you don't know if you're even going to get it yet!

There have been enough indications that I'm fairly certain it's going to happen in the next six months. Between people who I don't normally spend a lot of time talking to asking me what events I'm planning on attending this fall/winter, people inquiring about the colors of my armory, and other things it's pretty obvious it's going to happen. It's just a matter of when.

Generally the first indication you get that it's actually happening is when you're sitting in court and the Herald announces.... "Their Majesties request the presence of (insert your name) in their Court."

If they think you deserve it, be gracious and accept.

I plan on doing so. That's not the issue. The issue is how do I live with it afterwards, since I don't necessarily believe I deserve it.

Sometimes to be honorable, you have to swallow a little pride. There is value in being humble among your fellows. And sometimes being humble means you have to allow praise. I would bet that this issue stems from your own personal discomfort of being singled out. This would be a fine opportunity for you to step away from that for a while, and actually enjoy the accolades of your fellows. They think you genuinely deserve it, so you should accept and enjoy the hands of fellowship that are being extended to you.

It's less an issue of being singled out as it is a matter of being publicly singled out for something I don't believe I deserve. Trust me, I've got no problem accepting accolades and honors I believe I deserve. I understand what you're saying about simply accepting the award and the accolades. It's the time afterwards that I'm concerned about.

As usual, you seem to be putting roadblocks in your own path. It isn't necessary. Obviously these people accept you for who you are and it also seems they have a healthy respect for you.

Yes, the SCA is one of the few places where I do generally receive acceptance and respect for my interests and abilities. The problem is how to deal with it when I'm not sure the acceptance and respect have been earned.

Grace, my man, is a big part of chivalry.

Grace is something I don't generally do real well, Bang. You know that pretty well by now.

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Grace is something I don't generally do real well, Bang. You know that pretty well by now.

Here's a good time to practice.

Grace is another measure of a man.

As far as afterwards, sometimes it is true that others may see in you qualities you don't believe exist. Just because you don't feel deserving doesn't make it so. Resolve within yourself that in this instance their opinion is what counts, and that is something to be proud of.

~Bang

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Here's a good time to practice.

Grace is another measure of a man.

It's a measure I don't do very well against, Bang; as I think you already know.

As far as afterwards, sometimes it is true that others may see in you qualities you don't believe exist. Just because you don't feel deserving doesn't make it so. Resolve within yourself that in this instance their opinion is what counts, and that is something to be proud of.

The problem is that there are responsibilities that go with membership in the Order that I'm not sure I can really fulfill. Membership gives me a polling/voting right on future members of the Order. It also makes me a role model for others who seek to become members of the Order. That's probably what scares me the most.

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The problem is that there are responsibilities that go with membership in the Order that I'm not sure I can really fulfill. Membership gives me a polling/voting right on future members of the Order. It also makes me a role model for others who seek to become members of the Order. That's probably what scares me the most.

Vote yes on everyone. Problem solved. I always felt that if I ever joined a frat or a secret society or whatever, I would never vote against anyone ever - unless they were like a Klan member or something.

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Vote yes on everyone. Problem solved. I always felt that if I ever joined a frat or a secret society or whatever' date=' I would never vote against anyone ever - unless they were like a Klan member or something.[/quote']

It's not simply a "Yes" vs. "No" thing. The candidates are nominated by members of the Order. Their Majesties then (once every three months) poll the members of the Order on the potential candidates. Those who choose to return their polling MUST give reasons for their "Yes" or "No" votes. There is then a meeting of the Order members with Their Majesties to discuss the candidates and the results. In many cases if you haven't returned a poll, you're not allowed to speak in that meeting.

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By now most of you know that one of my main hobbies is a considerable amount of involvement in a medieval recreation group called the Society for Creative Anachronism. Some of you may even remember that last spring I commented that I'd heard some unsubstantiated rumors that I might be up for an award from the East Kingdom. Well, those rumors have a lot more substance at this point, and it's causing me some mental anguish and guilt.

I've been involved in the SCA off and on for about a decade and a half. In the last six to seven years I've been very active, and have taken on several more prominant and public positions both in the local group (Shire of Quintavia) and at the Kingdom level (East Kingdom).

Five years ago, when I was granted the lowest level award available on the Kingdom level (an Award of Arms), they had a tough time finding accomplishments to list on the scroll. In fact they went so far as to include the words "and future contributions to the Shire and Kingdom". That was fine with me. I was more than happy to be the guy who does the work and didn't get noticed.

Since then I've held an elected office in the Shire (Shire Marshal for Siege Weapons), become a warranted marshal in two different combat forms (Siege & Combat Archery), held a deputy Kingdom level office and now hold that office (East Kingdom Central Region Siege Marshal), and worked at probably a dozen events in positions ranging from gopher to Property Master (head of the operations staff). Additionally, because of my "memorable" appearance I've been credited with working at a lot of events that I never even attended.

I'd heard the rumors early this season that there were people pushing for me to be nominated for a Kingdom level award called the "Silver Crescent". Here's the description from East Kingdom Law....

"The Order of the Silver Crescent (established June 13, A.S. 6 by Akbar III and Khadijah III) may be given to gentles in the East Kingdom who have distinguished themselves by service to the Kingdom, whether by long service within one of the areas of the Kingdom whereby the entire Kingdom is held to benefit, or by continuing service in ways which directly benefit a large portion of the Kingdom."

Well, so far as I'm concerned what I've done doesn't meet those requirements. Hell, I'm of the opinion that what I've done doesn't even come close to meeting those requirements. Especially the the "benefit a large portion of the Kingdom" portion of it. Unfortunately it would appear that a number of other people are in significant disagreement with me on this issue.

Now before everyone gets on their high horse and tells me to stop acting like a martyr and just accept the award and smile about it, let me tell you that's exactly what I intend to do if/when this occurs. I've gotten very good at smiling, shutting up, and just going with the flow at SCA events. That's not the problem.

The problem is that I have a very difficult time accepting the idea that I worthy of receiving this award. It's not the highest level award for service there is, but it's a stepping stone towards the Society Level award for service (Order of the Pelican). I am not sure how I would/will deal with this issue. For numerous reasons turning it down isn't a reasonable option and there's no procedure for saying "Get back to me in a year and we'll see if I think I'm ready". I'm just not sure how to deal with this, internally. I am sure that I would/will feel guilty putting on the medallion that comes with membership in the Order.

Any reasonable, constructive, serious advice that people can and will give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

MSF/Scott

Mass,

Two things about awards....One, they are not meant for you to gloat over, they are meant to inspire others to do what you have done. Obviously others feel you deserve it and while you are humble and feel you are undeserving, someone else feels you do. That is a huge compliment. Sometimes you might not realize your value but someone who sees a bigger picture than you sees how important it is.

Two, as you rise in the organization you will learn that a lot of stuff is fluffed up to make it sound better than what it really is. I have seen this way to many times in to many different organizations. This is pretty common and once again goes back to the fact that it is not about you, it is about someone thinking you are a good role model for others to follow.

Accept it and be confident that someone thinks highly of you.

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It's not simply a "Yes" vs. "No" thing. The candidates are nominated by members of the Order. Their Majesties then (once every three months) poll the members of the Order on the potential candidates. Those who choose to return their polling MUST give reasons for their "Yes" or "No" votes. There is then a meeting of the Order members with Their Majesties to discuss the candidates and the results. In many cases if you haven't returned a poll, you're not allowed to speak in that meeting.

Vote "yes" and explain that you vote "yes" for everyone.

Or don't do it.

Jesus...how long does it take you to order off a menu?

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Two things about awards....One, they are not meant for you to gloat over, they are meant to inspire others to do what you have done. Obviously others feel you deserve it and while you are humble and feel you are undeserving, someone else feels you do. That is a huge compliment. Sometimes you might not realize your value but someone who sees a bigger picture than you sees how important it is.

Believe me, gloating is the absolutely last thing on my mind in regard to this. The problem is that since I put more value in my opinion than the opinions of others, it makes it hard to accept the idea that others are seeing things that I'm not. That's the problem.

Two, as you rise in the organization you will learn that a lot of stuff is fluffed up to make it sound better than what it really is. I have seen this way to many times in to many different organizations. This is pretty common and once again goes back to the fact that it is not about you, it is about someone thinking you are a good role model for others to follow.

You've hit upon one of my problems with the award structure in the SCA. There are quite a few awards whose granduer is severely tarnished in my mind because of certain people who have been given the award that I don't feel deserve it.

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Believe me, gloating is the absolutely last thing on my mind in regard to this. The problem is that since I put more value in my opinion than the opinions of others, it makes it hard to accept the idea that others are seeing things that I'm not. That's the problem.

I didn't mean to imply that you would gloat since I know you would not. But like I said, people who are above you see a much bigger picture than you may see. So they can see the how your actions affect things on a much larger scale than you are aware of. But what I said was still valid. Awards are like weddings, they are meant for others not yourself.

Read about some of these guys Mass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy

http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/life/MedalofHonor%20Quest.htm

Neither of these guys thought they deserved there awards.

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I didn't mean to imply that you would gloat since I know you would not. But like I said, people who are above you see a much bigger picture than you may see. So they can see the how your actions affect things on a much larger scale than you are aware of. But what I said was still valid. Awards are like weddings, they are meant for others not yourself.

I'm not so sure I agree with your assertion that awards are meant for others rather than the person receiving them, but it's not worth argueing over.

I'm actually going to sit down with one of these people tomorrow evening and discuss this a little bit, so I'll be interested to see what her take on it is.

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  • 3 months later...

For those of you who remember this thread (which I'm sure is not many); there's been a significant update...

On Saturday, January 26th, in the Barony of Stonemarche (Manchester, NH), at the Market Day at Birka event, their Majesties Andreas and Gabriella WILL be inducting me into the Order of the Silver Crescent. I have confirmation on this from multiple very reliable sources at this point. So my concern was pretty well founded afterall.

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Congratulations....

When I saw this title, I thought you were headed to a different type of court. I envisioned lawyers, judges, pistols, and a bloodbath. With the aftermath of you saying that in order to prove yourself true and to protect your honor you challenged the prosecutor to a duel. When you saw that the court had no honor because the unchallenged bailiff went for his gun, you simply knew you had to instill justice upon the whole corrupt chamber.

Since it is the other kind of court... Congratulations. Bare the honor well, and the may the weight of responsibility and duty be countermeasured by the worth and pleasure of your new station.

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