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Carlos Rogers lacks cornerback intangibles!


Drunken Master III

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and guys, again: carlos only allowed that one big play to burress the whole game. our whole d was dead tired and burress has 6 inches and 30 pounds on rogers, and he made a nice tackle break. rogers rarely misses tackles, thats one of his strong suits.

rogers is a solid NFL corner, you people need to stop using him for the scape goat.

and if you watch the film of the giants game, springs got lit up more than he did by plax.

Your Carlos colored glasses are blinding you. More and more people are starting to see and realize what I've been saying for two years now, Carlos "No D" Rogers SUCKS!!!! He is not capable of covering a highschool wideout. He has the worst hands of any professinal player EVER. He can make a good tackle, but only when the guy is in front of him, and he has to give even average WR a 5 yard cushion (superstars 10-15 yard cushion) other wise he will get blown way. Carlos "No D" Rogers cost us that game against the Giants, and he has cost us somewhere around 6 or 7 games by himself, and his non-ability to cover a WR, over the past two years. He cost us that game against Seatle in the playoffs, by not catching that interception, and not being able to cover his man.

The fact is that he has sucked in the past, he sucks now, and he will continue to suck for the rest of his life.

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Well I only saw the replay when it happened, but it looked to me like it looks every time our corners should have a pick. They are playing the man, not the ball.

If Rogers had taken a glance at Eli, he would have seen how awful that throw was and had a better jump. Unfortunately, he was staring right at Buress.

Thats exactly what it is. They have to learn when to play both.

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Yeah, I saw something i didn't like in just one play, so I'm going to go start a thread about it too, and put an exclamation point at the end of the title.

Lacks intangibles? Which intangibles are being talked about? The op doesn't mention them, rather looks at one play and makes that assessment. If some of those intangibles are physicality and good tackling, then Rogers has those intangibles. If you are talking about not keeping a closer eye on the QB, that can be taught, and CBs usually get better at that and develop as they gain more experience. But hey, let's start the 5,000th hate thread on Rogers, act like he should be Champ Bailey back there despite this being his 3rd season in the NFL, and while we're at it, let's pretend we know more than Gregg Wlliams, and can evaluate talent better.

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Your Carlos colored glasses are blinding you. More and more people are starting to see and realize what I've been saying for two years now, Carlos "No D" Rogers SUCKS!!!! He is not capable of covering a highschool wideout. He has the worst hands of any professinal player EVER. He can make a good tackle, but only when the guy is in front of him, and he has to give even average WR a 5 yard cushion (superstars 10-15 yard cushion) other wise he will get blown way. Carlos "No D" Rogers cost us that game against the Giants, and he has cost us somewhere around 6 or 7 games by himself, and his non-ability to cover a WR, over the past two years. He cost us that game against Seatle in the playoffs, by not catching that interception, and not being able to cover his man.

The fact is that he has sucked in the past, he sucks now, and he will continue to suck for the rest of his life.

Wow, it's quite obvious you aren't biased in this argument at all, so Rogers must therefor suck.

And that means GW is horrible, because in 3 seasons now, he hasn't corrected Rogers' consistent "problem" of playing far back. Oh wait, ever stop to think it's the scheme? Or that GW would tell Taylor he needs to make sure Rogers lines up closer. Do you really think that problem has persisted for 3 seasons now, and the coaches haven't noticed it, or thought it to be a problem? It's dependent on what scheme is being run. Rogers was pressing the WR the last 2 games, just not all the time, only when the scheme called for it.

Rogers can't cover a high school wideout? He cost us the game against the Giants, 6-7 games, and in Seattle he should have caught that INT, because he didn't it cost us the game? Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound here? I'd love to know what 6-7 games you think he cost us. You don't think maybe it was the team as a whole that cost us the Giants game? There was lack of execution everywhere. Shockey shouldn't have been open for that goalline grab. You want to fault that one on Rogers? Betts should have gotten in from the 1, you want to fault that one on Rogers? And Carlos not getting the INT in Seattle you want to fault him, yet you won't give him credit for getting the jump on the ball and being in position in the first place. Yeah, it wasn't Clark getting picked on all day, or the LBers inability to contain the runner, it was the one play by Rogers where he didn't allow any points.

I'd love for you to say some of this absurd stuff to Rogers himself, but my feeling is that whenever there is a chat here with Rogers, you won't. Do you honestly consider your opinion here credible when you are throwing around juvenile insults instead of doing any kind of actual, stat-based argument?

Rogers isn't the greatest corner out there, but he is coming along. So sorry he isn't Champ Bailey re-born in only his 3rd season. Some of you fans have the most ridiculous expectations of players.

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Carlos is solid, not great, but solid. Sure he could play the ball more, have better hands, but for people to expect him to shut down every WR for an entire game is outlandish. People seem to think our CBs should make every stop, and our WRs should get open on every play, you have to realize every player on every team gets beat. There are too many great athletes in the NFL that will beat you with any mistake you make during a game.

Our coaches try to put our guys in a position where they have the odds in their favor to win the battle against they're man more times than they are beat. Our entire defense got beat against NY in the second half. To call out 1 guy who is in a position where the spotlight is on him when he is beat, is unfair and doesn't speak to the truth that there were others on that play and MANY other plays that made mistakes as well.

Put Los in a situation where it's 3rd and short, and the QB KNOWS he is going to get pressured in a heartbeat, and I have confidence if the ball is coming his way he breaks it up more times than he gives up a first. 3rd and long, a short pass to a WR, Los tackles him short of the first down more times than they convert. You know how many times those plays go for first downs, yet I think Los is one of the better CBs out there to make that stop time and time again. The plays people on here are angry at, he is defending many different route options, and the QB has plenty of time to let it develop.

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Now I havent ever seen him drinking or drunk, but my point was if I was 'Los and I needed to work on my game, I would be working, not hanging out during the season.

I dont hate the guy. I actually said out loud at the game that I was ready to support him.

All I have said about him is when he needs to make a play, he often does not. It's just indicative of this team lately. the super smart coaches "see" something that we dont. I just cant stop thinking that the next play we give up that is game/season altering will be on carlos. Why? I dunno.

If or when he solidifies, I will eat crow and be happy.

Tell me that you have confidence in imagining him lining up against TO.

No. Not against a guy like TO. But how many corners in the league can cover the top receivers? I admit I thought he would be better being he was a high first round pick. He should have made that tackle against Plexico. That play hurt us big time.
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Carlos Rogers can cover when he's in press, no doubt. He's good at that. However, he CANNOT locate the ball once it is in the air. That's one of the most important things for a corner to do.

Oddly enough he WAS pretty good at it. Remember the game vs. the Chargers, OT loss, yuck, yah you remember :) He played the deep ball perfectly and almost had 2 picks. I don't know what happened between now and then...

Coaching?

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Your Carlos colored glasses are blinding you. More and more people are starting to see and realize what I've been saying for two years now, Carlos "No D" Rogers SUCKS!!!! He is not capable of covering a highschool wideout. He has the worst hands of any professinal player EVER. He can make a good tackle, but only when the guy is in front of him, and he has to give even average WR a 5 yard cushion (superstars 10-15 yard cushion) other wise he will get blown way. Carlos "No D" Rogers cost us that game against the Giants, and he has cost us somewhere around 6 or 7 games by himself, and his non-ability to cover a WR, over the past two years. He cost us that game against Seatle in the playoffs, by not catching that interception, and not being able to cover his man.

The fact is that he has sucked in the past, he sucks now, and he will continue to suck for the rest of his life.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: (laughing at you)

It's a good thing you don't exagerate or blow things out of proportion.

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Your Carlos colored glasses are blinding you. More and more people are starting to see and realize what I've been saying for two years now, Carlos "No D" Rogers SUCKS!!!! He is not capable of covering a highschool wideout. He has the worst hands of any professinal player EVER. He can make a good tackle, but only when the guy is in front of him, and he has to give even average WR a 5 yard cushion (superstars 10-15 yard cushion) other wise he will get blown way. Carlos "No D" Rogers cost us that game against the Giants, and he has cost us somewhere around 6 or 7 games by himself, and his non-ability to cover a WR, over the past two years. He cost us that game against Seatle in the playoffs, by not catching that interception, and not being able to cover his man.

The fact is that he has sucked in the past, he sucks now, and he will continue to suck for the rest of his life.

Carlos is not a #1 CB, granted. To say Carlos Rogers "has sucked in the past, he sucks now, and he will continue to suck for the rest of his life" is way off base. He is a NFL caliber corner, he could cover ANY high school player in the country, he has given up 1 big play this season, and he is playing the position the way the coaches are asking him to play.

This is a team game and I would love to see the 6 or 7 games he "lost by himself". Maybe he could have made plays to save a game, but lost 6 or 7 games by himself? C'mon man this is a team sport, no one loses games them selves. Not even Romo sits to pee in the playoffs.

Plaxico Burress is a star in the NFL and has caught balls on plenty of corners. Some fans are unable to handle the ebb and flow of a NFL game or season. Teams will make plays and guys will get beat, its football. Unless you are the 72 Dolphins you can't win them all, and I would bet even the corners on the 72 team were beat for touchdowns sometimes.

For those screaming for Smoot to start, need I remind you of his struggles with playing the Cover 2? Wasn't that why he was a bad fit in Minn? We are in cover 2 quite a bit. Lets not be so quick to lose faith in our young corner.

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Your Carlos colored glasses are blinding you. More and more people are starting to see and realize what I've been saying for two years now, Carlos "No D" Rogers SUCKS!!!! He is not capable of covering a highschool wideout. He has the worst hands of any professinal player EVER. He can make a good tackle, but only when the guy is in front of him, and he has to give even average WR a 5 yard cushion (superstars 10-15 yard cushion) other wise he will get blown way. Carlos "No D" Rogers cost us that game against the Giants, and he has cost us somewhere around 6 or 7 games by himself, and his non-ability to cover a WR, over the past two years. He cost us that game against Seatle in the playoffs, by not catching that interception, and not being able to cover his man.

The fact is that he has sucked in the past, he sucks now, and he will continue to suck for the rest of his life.

You lack credibility if you say Carlos Rogers "sucks"... He doesn't suck, but he doesn't live up to expectations either. I'd like to agree with some of what you say, but you say it in such a "fanatic" way that I don't want to agree with you. :) Take a step back, take a deep breath... Because you admit that you have been "saying this for two years", you realize that this makes you seem as if you want it to happen and it gives people a reason to discount your arguments. You have valid arguments, but you need to emotionally detach yourself from those arguments.

BTW, if Carlos had been playing within 5 yards of the LOS on that play, the Giants wouldn't have scored a TD.

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rogers is far from bad. when hes pressed up hes a very good corner. you should talk to gregg williams about why hes back 10 yards off the guy. and burress was TORCHING springs in the last game, yet people still think hes some complete monster. rogers is good NFL cornerback, plenty of teams would love to have him.

i agree, his hands suck, cant do anything about it. but smoot, whos supposed to be "mr pick" dropped the only INT chance he had this year too, and he cant even get on the field. some of you guys have such an agenda against him, and are STILL crying about the pick6 he dropped against seattle. newsflash from that game: the seahawks were a better team than we were.

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BTW, if Carlos had been playing within 5 yards of the LOS on that play, the Giants wouldn't have scored a TD.

exactly. its all williams and his line up 10 yards off the guy. even joyners metrics from last season showed that when rogers was in press, he was a very good cornerback, and we saw that yet again on sunday.

williams has got to give up this obsession with the huge cushion because its killing us. leave rogers in press, hes too physical a corner not to be pressed up.

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Carlos is coming along just fine. Not spectacular. Not terrible.

My only complaint is that I wish he'd play the ball more. He consistantly in good position, and he'd be able to make a play on the ball if he simply locate it.

IMO - The fans calling for his head, will generally be the same fans who have been conditioned into the Dan Snyder, instant "superstar fix", flashy FA signing, no time to develope in house talent, change coaches everytime we lose mentality.

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Someone correct me if I am wrong, but a scheme will usually have a corner press if he has deep help, and will have him play off if he doesn't. This is to help minimize giving up the big play, while utilizing the prefered press as much as possible. No team plays press on every play. Its a mix and match system based on 11 guys being in the best position to make, and not give up plays. Rarely, if ever, does a corner just get to decide to go press because he is good at it.

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rogers is far from bad. when hes pressed up hes a very good corner. you should talk to gregg williams about why hes back 10 yards off the guy. and burress was TORCHING springs in the last game, yet people still think hes some complete monster. rogers is good NFL cornerback, plenty of teams would love to have him.

i agree, his hands suck, cant do anything about it. but smoot, whos supposed to be "mr pick" dropped the only INT chance he had this year too, and he cant even get on the field. some of you guys have such an agenda against him, and are STILL crying about the pick6 he dropped against seattle. newsflash from that game: the seahawks were a better team than we were.

1) Springs tackled Burress when he got the ball... Minus the one TD that was entirely Carlos Rogers fault, Burress had 4 catches for just over 50 yards. How is that "torching?" You do realize that this season (including the Redskins game), that Burress is averaging 17.5 ypc... Outside of the Carlos Rogers play, he was 5 yards less than that.

2) Nobody will ever convince me that Carlos isn't reading what the offense shows and determining his own cushion. There is too often when he is showing a different cushion from Springs. I don't know if there is a sane individual who believes Carlos is better 10-15 yards off the LOS.

3) Smoot dropped one ball this year and it was big. However, he led the team in interceptions his first 4 years as a Redskin. He made big plays that minimized any negative plays he had. Carlos needs to do the same.

4) You didn't respond to my earlier post... If Carlos makes big plays, all this talk goes away. This is my only problem with Carlos. Can you agree?

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exactly. its all williams and his line up 10 yards off the guy. even joyners metrics from last season showed that when rogers was in press, he was a very good cornerback, and we saw that yet again on sunday.

williams has got to give up this obsession with the huge cushion because its killing us. leave rogers in press, hes too physical a corner not to be pressed up.

The only problem with Joyner's metrics is that they showed very few times when Carlos was actually in press coverage. His metrics imply what we know (that Carlos is better closer to the LOS), but his metrics don't actually prove anything because there is not enough data there. Carlos was giving up 9+ yards more often than any other observed cornerback (nearly double the average). Carlos' cushion is a huge problem. This costs us games and we need to fix it or fix Jerry Gray.

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1) Springs tackled Burress when he got the ball... Minus the one TD that was entirely Carlos Rogers fault, Burress had 4 catches for just over 50 yards. How is that "torching?" You do realize that this season (including the Redskins game), that Burress is averaging 17.5 ypc... Outside of the Carlos Rogers play, he was 5 yards less than that.?

if i remember, springs gave up completions of 24, 16, and a costly PI call on 3rd down. rogers gave up the one big touchdown play, similar to the galloway play last year. they left him alone, blitzed everybody, and burress vs rogers is a poor matchup, considering the size burress has on him (and most corners for that matter).

and rogers was lined up on plax a good deal in the first half, and while pressed up, gave up 0 catches for 0 yards. only when we do the stupid cushion does rogers start to look bad.

2) Nobody will ever convince me that Carlos isn't reading what the offense shows and determining his own cushion. There is too often when he is showing a different cushion from Springs. I don't know if there is a sane individual who believes Carlos is better 10-15 yards off the LOS.?

i hate the cushion. theres no reason for it unless were up by 30 points, which we wont ever be.

3) Smoot dropped one ball this year and it was big. However, he led the team in interceptions his first 4 years as a Redskin. He made big plays that minimized any negative plays he had. Carlos needs to do the same.?

fine, smoot lead the team in INTs 3 years ago. that doesnt have any bearing on todays game. smoot cant even get on the field now and looked very very poor in the dolphins game. and i agree carlos needs to step up and make key plays. i also wish he had a real pass rush, like the majority of very good corners have. we happen to have one of the worst rushes in the game.

4) You didn't respond to my earlier post... If Carlos makes big plays, all this talk goes away. This is my only problem with Carlos. Can you agree?

agreed. even last year, if he had held on to a few of those dropped INTs, all these threads would disappear. although jfried realllly hates the guy haha.

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The only problem with Joyner's metrics is that they showed very few times when Carlos was actually in press coverage. His metrics imply what we know (that Carlos is better closer to the LOS), but his metrics don't actually prove anything because there is not enough data there. Carlos was giving up 9+ yards more often than any other observed cornerback (nearly double the average). Carlos' cushion is a huge problem. This costs us games and we need to fix it or fix Jerry Gray.

isnt that ridiculous though? i saw the exact numbers you did, i think he gave more cushion than any corner in football, and when he was in press (the few times he was) he did well. really irritating that theyre taking away his evident strong suit.

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fine, smoot lead the team in INTs 3 years ago. that doesnt have any bearing on todays game. smoot cant even get on the field now and looked very very poor in the dolphins game. and i agree carlos needs to step up and make key plays. i also wish he had a real pass rush, like the majority of very good corners have. we happen to have one of the worst rushes in the game.

agreed. even last year, if he had held on to a few of those dropped INTs, all these threads would disappear. although jfried realllly hates the guy haha.

Regarding Smoot against the Dolphins... I changed my opinion of his game based on analysis done by PGH here: http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=591

If you look at Smoot's game, his SYA is actually very good... You aren't going to totally stop Chris Chambers, but the fact that out of 15 times throwing in Smoot's direction he had less than 50% success and no completions over 14 yards... I'd say that was a good game. By comparison, Rogers was picked on only 5 times and had 2 plays of 20 yards or more (long pass and a penalty).

Hopefully Smoot comes back from injury soon... We could use his depth and experience in nickle coverage and spot starts.

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To me, intangibles are the things that can't be easily accounted for. Speed, cover ability, height... those aren't intangibles.

Knowing when to make cuts,

Sensing when the ball is coming,

Looking at the QB's eyes instead of at the receiver's back all the time,

Anticipating when to make a timely break to intercept or knock ball away,

Realizing that on certain downs, or on certain parts of the field, sometimes a batted down pass is better than an INT,

Understanding how and where to bump w/o taking an illegal contact penalty,

Tackling the player instead of the ball,

Knocking the ball out with a free hand while bringing a player down,

Catching the INT before running with the ball,

Keeping the receiver between you and the endzone, not letting him past you,

Having the presence not to make stupid penalties that can keep a drive alive,

Not playing out of position/overplaying so that you become susceptible to gadget plays,

Knowing when your team really needs a turnover...

Those are some things that describe intangible, IMO. So far, from what I've seen out of CR, he has about half of those intangibles.

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Regarding Smoot against the Dolphins... I changed my opinion of his game based on analysis done by PGH here: http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=591

If you look at Smoot's game, his SYA is actually very good... You aren't going to totally stop Chris Chambers, but the fact that out of 15 times throwing in Smoot's direction he had less than 50% success and no completions over 14 yards... I'd say that was a good game. By comparison, Rogers was picked on only 5 times and had 2 plays of 20 yards or more (long pass and a penalty).

Hopefully Smoot comes back from injury soon... We could use his depth and experience in nickle coverage and spot starts.

i just dont like that they targeted him 15 times. that says something about who they thought they could beat. and even though his sya was good, ill take rogers game over smoots.

his PI call was questionable if i remember, and he did give up the big sideline play to chambers.

again, its always rogers giving up the memorable bad plays, which is another reason why i think people ride the guy so hard.

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i just dont like that they targeted him 15 times. that says something about who they thought they could beat. and even though his sya was good, ill take rogers game over smoots.

his PI call was questionable if i remember, and he did give up the big sideline play to chambers.

again, its always rogers giving up the memorable bad plays, which is another reason why i think people ride the guy so hard.

They did the same with Champ Bailey, but Champ didn't get quite as much criticism because he made big plays to counter the big plays he gave up (see Terry Glenn and Dallas vs Champ Bailey).

Carlos needs big plays. He'll be fine if he can convert good plays into great plays that help win games. He needs to give fans other things to consider than the negative plays against him.

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