Who is better: Greg Williams or Lovie Smith?..and WHY?

[AmeriplanDentalMan]

It would seem like Lovie Smith is better because he produces better defenses. His teams have more takeaways and his teams produce more sacks and they allow less points and they allow less yardage.

Why do you think that is? What is it that Smith does that Williams does not believe in? Any answers?

[HittinSkinz]

this is the weirdest post I have ever seen

[skinsn24]

Lovie is better, as you have stated. No real need to debate here. Lovie is also a head coach and has had great sucess every place he has been, a very low failure rate.

[Farbod21]

It would seem like Lovie Smith is better because he produces better defenses. His teams have more takeaways and his teams produce more sacks and they allow less points and they allow less yardage.

Why do you think that is? What is it that Smith does that Williams does not believe in? Any answers?

This comparison is lame. The bears are loaded on defense. The redskins believe in spreading the talent to both sides of the ball. Williams has shown he can get a top 5 defense consistantly and without the best talent in the league.

Im F&$&ing tired of people ****ing about GW all because of one horrid injury plagued year. Jeez, come on...

Lovie is a very good coach as well, comparing the two is like comparing ferrari and lamborguini... Just a matter of preference, product is pretty damn similar.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

As I see it, Lovie Smith has better athletes at better key positions.

At Corner, Nathan Vasher and Charles Tillman are an upgrade over any combination that we have had in the past 2-3 years when Springs is NOT in, and I would say draws even when springs is in. Vasher and Tillman are both very athletic and have great speed.

At Safety we get the nod, anytime.

But at linebacker, they entirely own us. Urlacher and Briggs are alone better than any 3 linebackers we put on the field, save when we had Pierce and Lavar. Still, since the departure of Pierce and the introduction of Holdman we see a difference, superior linebacker play made by athletes with both talent and intelligence.

At DL they had the luxury of both Tank and Tommie Harris to switch out at the ever difficult Nose Tackle. At DE they have Ogunleye, who seems like the real deal when compared to Daniels or Carter's first half. Their other DE I don't know (I'll be honest), but given our DE situation I think we still draw even here.

Those with more knowledge, please come in and correct me, this is just my hunch.

[Dirk Diggler]

Kind of a strange question. Are you a Bears fan? If you are talking about who is a better defensive mind and who would I rather have running my defense... I take GW.

The Bears have had better defenses lately but they also have brilliant personnel. Jerry Angelo has drafted better than anyone not named Ozzie Newsome over the past 4 years. Smith keeps things very simple and never blitzes. When he has the great personnel, his defense is great. When he doesn't, as was the case in year 1, they stunk. He's just not a very creative coordinator.

Meanwhile, Williams had good but not great personnel in Tennesse, Buffalo, and Washington and produced great defenses at each stop. Things fell apart last season for a myriad of reasons but 2006 has been the exception to GWs career rather than the rule. And things APPEAR to be back on track here.

That said, I'd prefer Smith as a head coach because he seems to be good at steering the ship in rough waters ala Tony Dungy.

[skinsn24]

Lovie likes to get pressure with his front 4 and builds front 4 to back, williams builds the other way.

It just happens that lovie had has a little more sucess at everyone of his stops.

They both run types of the cover 2 and GW has said he is adjusting his D to be more similair to lovies

[Leonard Washington]

three words....

francis...scott...key

[Chris0894]

when did lovie become a defensive coordinator? :slap:

[Dirk Diggler]

Lovie is better, as you have stated. No real need to debate here. Lovie is also a head coach and has had great sucess every place he has been, a very low failure rate.

And Williams hasn't had great success on defense everywhere he's been?

[ouvan59]

this is the weirdest post I have ever seen

Consider the source. He has started about 10 threads in the last week all trying to subtly put down the Skins.

[skinsn24]

And Williams hasn't had great success on defense everywhere he's been?

Willaims has, but not as great as lovie. Williams has had more failures than Lovie.

Not saying Willaims is bad or anything like that, just giving Lovie his credit.

[ouvan59]

Lovie is better, as you have stated. No real need to debate here. Lovie is also a head coach and has had great sucess every place he has been, a very low failure rate.

Lovie Smith has been a defensive coordinator or head coach for the last 6 years. He has had 3 top 10 defenses and 3 defenses that weren't that good. In those same 6 years Gregg Williams has been a defensive coordinator or head coach he has 3 top 10 defenses and 3 defenses that weren't that good. So, yeah, there is some debate there.

[Jumbo]

this is the weirdest post I have ever seen

It's a pattern

And an intent :laugh:

Secret Squirrel stuff :cool:

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

Lovie likes to get pressure with his front 4 and builds front 4 to back, williams builds the other way.

You hit the nail on the head my friend.

[skinsn24]

Lovie Smith has been a defensive coordinator or head coach for the last 6 years. He has had 3 top 10 defenses and 3 defenses that weren't that good. In those same 6 years Gregg Williams has been a defensive coordinator or head coach he has 3 top 10 defenses and 3 defenses that weren't that good. So, yeah, there is some debate there.

Ok lets take a quick look here:

Lovie was one of the origonal inventors with Dungy of the Tampa 2.

That tampa team had great sucess for a long time.

Then he took over the rams D. He coached the D to number 3 in the league and went to the superbowl.

The D was ranked 24th the year before he took over. Thats 24 to 3, in a single year.

The next year they ranked 13th, not great, but def good.

Then he had his worst year ever, with a 17th ranked defense...not horrible by any standard, just about average.

Then he became a head coach.

The bears ranked 22nd the year before he took over, the first year lovie was there 2004, they ranked 13th. Another huge improvment

In 2005 the bears ranked 2nd overall in total yards and first in points.

In 2006, the bears dominated the NFC and went to the Superbowl. That would be Lovies second superbowl and first as a head coach (something williams has never done as a head coach). The 2006 team was 2nd in points and 5th in total defense.

So maybe he has had 2 years where his teams were "not that good" but def not 3, i am sorry a 22 to 13 improvement is pretty damn good.

HE has never had a horrible year or anything less than average. The worst D he ever coached was ranked 17th in the league.

HE has performed one of the most dramatic turnarounds in a single year ever.

He has been to 2 superbowls. Give Credit where Credit is due.

Again let me state, i think williams is very good and has proven it time and time again. But right now, who is the better coach? It is lovie smith. Willaims is coming off one of the worst years in NFL history, when he rebounds this year it will help his status.

Lets also not forget that williams was 17-31 as a head coach and his defenses have ranked in the bottom half of the league the same amount of times they have ranked in the top half. 17-31 is just bad.:2cents:

[Dirk Diggler]

Willaims has, but not as great as lovie. Williams has had more failures than Lovie.

Not saying Willaims is bad or anything like that, just giving Lovie his credit.

I think Smith's best job was in 2001 when he managed to help the Rams go from God awful to excellent on defense. Though, again the Rams had like 10 first round picks that year and traded for Aeneas Williams.

Not surprisingly, that defense wasn't able to maintain their greatness in 2002 and 2003 as soon as they suffered a few personnel losses. Fast forward to 2006, with the Bears losing Tommie Harris - the Bears go from excellent to ordinary pretty quickly. That's kinda my point with Smith. As with most coordinators, give him great - and he'll get you great. That doesn't qualify him as some great defensive mind.

Williams has consistenly shown that he can do more with less. Can you name Williams LBs in Tennessee and Buffalo without cheating? How about the Safeties? Can you name anyone on that historically great 2000 Titan defense besides Kearse and Rolle? The 2004 Skins defense lost 3 starters for the season, a 4th for most of it, and still went from bottom 5 to the top 5 immediately. Guys like Pierce, Clark, Marshall, and Salevea went from nobodies to somebodies.

People have short memories around here (not picking on you Dan ) but they'll all be back on the bandwagon soon enough. Too many fickle little women.

[Drex]

The Greg Williams defenses in Tennessee that put him on the NFL map were teams that had pass rushers on their front fours, including a young Jevon Kearse, who was quite a difference maker at the defensive end position.

Williams has proven that he can field a good defense without the presence of a great pass rushing defensive line in Buffalo and mostly in Washington. However, 1999, and 2000 Tennessee Titans defenses that made him one of the most highly sought after head coaching candidates, were units that got more than their fair share of sacks from the defensive line.

[ouvan59]

He has been to 2 superbowls. Give Credit where Credit is due.

I never said that Lovie Smith wasn't a tremendous coach. I just don't understand what Gregg Williams and Lovie Smith have to do with each other and why anyone would care? Gregg Williams is a very good defensive coordinator in his own right and I'm pretty happy we got him. What Lovie Smith is or isn't is pretty much irrelevant to the Washington Redskins. The OP keeps posting these passive-aggressive threads in a transparent attempt to rag on the Skins. :yawnee:

[skinsn24]

I think Smith's best job was in 2001 when he managed to help the Rams go from God awful to excellent on defense. Though, again the Rams had like 10 first round picks that year and traded for Aeneas Williams.

Not surprisingly, that defense wasn't able to maintain their greatness in 2002 and 2003 as soon as they suffered a few personnel losses. Fast forward to 2006, with the Bears losing Tommie Harris - the Bears go from excellent to ordinary pretty quickly. That's kinda my point with Smith. As with most coordinators, give him great - and he'll get you great. That doesn't qualify him as some great defensive mind.

Williams has consistenly shown that he can do more with less. Can you name Williams LBs in Tennessee and Buffalo without cheating? How about the Safeties? Can you name anyone on that historically great 2000 Titan defense besides Kearse and Rolle? The 2004 Skins defense lost 3 starters for the season, a 4th for most of it, and still went from bottom 5 to the top 5 immediately. Guys like Pierce, Clark, Marshall, and Salevea went from nobodies to somebodies.

People have short memories around here (not picking on you Dan ) but they'll all be back on the bandwagon soon enough. Too many fickle little women.

Short memories, did u miss teh 17-31 as a head coach? Or is that out of your memory.

How about Blaine Bishop and Keith Bulluck. Pretty Good players. Not to mention they added Kevin Carter. Seriously, those teams were stacked as well. You might not know who Keith BUlluck is (he came on the year after the superbowl) but he is pretty damn good as was Bishop. And no i didnt cheat.

You say Williams has "consistanty" shown. How can you say that when he has had as many bottom half as top half defenses anda 17-31 record as a head coach. If anything id say WIlliams CAN do it, but hasnt proven to be able to do it consistantly.

[skinsn24]

I never said that Lovie Smith wasn't a tremendous coach. I just don't understand what Gregg Williams and Lovie Smith have to do with each other and why anyone would care? Gregg Williams is a very good defensive coordinator in his own right and I'm pretty happy we got him. What Lovie Smith is or isn't is pretty much irrelevant to the Washington Redskins. The OP keeps posting these passive-aggressive threads in a transparent attempt to rag on the Skins. :yawnee:

This is a fair post and i agree with you. I have said I like williams and think he is a good coach and i agree with you about the OP.

I just dont think people understand how good lovie has been. Just look at their head coaching records and dont tell me Lovie had a good offense.

Dirk, Keep in mind building the defense is part of being a good coach. Lovie proved he knew how to use Arch while Williams failed. Lovie is a pretty good talent evaluator and finds the players that work. Give him some credit. Jeez.

[skinsn24]

The Greg Williams defenses in Tennessee that put him on the NFL map were teams that had pass rushers on their front fours, including a young Jevon Kearse, who was quite a difference maker at the defensive end position.

Williams has proven that he can field a good defense without the presence of a great pass rushing defensive line in Buffalo and mostly in Washington. However, 1999, and 2000 Tennessee Titans defenses that made him one of the most highly sought after head coaching candidates, were units that got more than their fair share of sacks from the defensive line.

I agree 110% this offseason i wrote a thread about how amazing those teams were due to the pay of their front 4. They had great talent up there and it really paid off.

[Dirk Diggler]

Lets also not forget that williams was 17-31 as a head coach and his defenses have ranked in the bottom half of the league the same amount of times they have ranked in the top half. 17-31 is just bad.:2cents:

He also had to take over a team that was completely blown up because they mortgaged their future in order to win it all in 2000. As a defensive mind, he did his job and built a defense virtually from scratch into a top 5 unit. The players that made their 1999/2000 defenses great like Bruce Smith, Ted Washington, Marcellus Wiley, Sam Cowart, Henry Jones, Thomas Smith were nowhere to be found by 2002 and 2003. We're talking about a top 5 defense in 2003 with Pierson Prielou, Erik Flowers, and Ryan Denney!

As I said, if we're the debate is about TEAM building and who I would trust as my HEAD COACH, I think you go with Smith. But if we're talking about defense building and ability to get results with virtually anything you provide him, it's GW. I'd be very confident with either guy if you have a Polian, Newsome, or Angelo taking the players. But you can't always depend on the front office to get it done. That's why I have greater comfort with GW as my guy.

[elkabong82]

Another thread started with no stats, just opinion and posturing. Lucky the subject is somewhat interesting, cuz Ameriplan is begging for an NNT.

That being said, Lovie and GW are both great defensive minds. Both know how to get a lot out of their players. I think GW has been able to do it with less talent than Lovie. The Bills D had some stars, but was #3 without half the talent the Bears have. The '04 Skins were the same way. Pierce came out of nowhere, Brandon Noble was our big DT, and Wynn and Daniels were the DEs. It's hard to say really who the better defensive mind is because both have been able to take crap and turn it into gold.

I guess I give the edge to Lovie because his success as a head coach in Chicago has been for the most part because of the defense.

[AmeriplanDentalMan]

Lovie likes to get pressure with his front 4 and builds front 4 to back, williams builds the other way.

It just happens that lovie had has a little more sucess at everyone of his stops.

They both run types of the cover 2 and GW has said he is adjusting his D to be more similair to lovies

I think you have hit one of the nails on one of the heads. Lovie Smith likes to have a front four that can get after the passer and he wants his linebackers to be run stoppers. Gregg Williams likes his front four to be run stoppers and then use the blitz to get after the passer.

But the bears also seem to have more playmakers in the secondary, so the real point would seem to be that the more pressure you put on the QB with the front four, the more playmakers will appear elsewhere on your defense. The less pressure you put on the QB, like the Redskins, the less playmakers and less turnovers you will have.