ACW Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Obama: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Obama-Cuba.html?_r=1&oref=slogin Richardson: http://www.richardsonforpresident.com/newsroom/pressreleases?id=0225 :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 It's assinine that we have travel restrictions to Cuba. There is NO good reason other than nyahnyahnyah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 So, politicians pandering for specific cultural votes is enough to swing points in you camp? Obama simply wnats to pick up a few votes in Florida. Richardson is an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 So, politicians pandering for specific cultural votes is enough to swing points in you camp? Obama simply wnats to pick up a few votes in Florida. Richardson is an idiot. It's the right thing, if for the wrong reasons. And Richardson's got balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 It's the right thing, if for the wrong reasons. And Richardson's got balls.I disagree. He needs BRAINS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 So, politicians pandering for specific cultural votes is enough to swing points in you camp? Obama simply wnats to pick up a few votes in Florida. Richardson is an idiot. If they were pandering to cultural votes their stance would be the exact opposite. Exile cubans in Miami are right leaning specifically because of the GOP stance towards Cuba/Fidel Castro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwpanic Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 If they were pandering to cultural votes their stance would be the exact opposite. Exile cubans in Miami are right leaning specifically because of the GOP stance towards Cuba/Fidel Castro. bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 If fidel died tommorrow Havana would be the new Vegas in two years.The Cold War is over and our relationship currently with Cuba is assinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 If fidel died tommorrow Havana would be the new Vegas in two years.The Cold War is over and our relationship currently with Cuba is assinine.I think there are a few Cuban ex-Pats that would diagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 It would seem that a bunch of you might need a refresher course on the concepts of Morality and Values. ACW especially. Cuba is a Communist/Socialist country. Even IF I believed that there should be contact between Americans and foreign countries, it definitely wouldn't extend to nations like Cuba for just that reason. The idea of legalizing marijuana is again a significant moral & ethical problem. We already have too many legal mood & mind altering chemicals allowed in this country. We definitely don't need any more. Need I say anything more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 We can travel to China, but not Cuba. What's the difference MORALLY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 I'm not gonna start the drug debate with you, and as for the first comment: so the people should be punished because the leader's an *******? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 We can travel to China, but not Cuba.What's the difference MORALLY? Kilmer, I don't believe we should be allowed to return after traveling ANYWHERE outside the US. Nor do I believe that mail, phone, or internet service should be able to contact people outside the US either. I've discussed that in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 ....and as for the first comment: so the people should be punished because the leader's an *******? Yes, when they fail to do anything to remove him from power, definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Kilmer, I don't believe we should be allowed to return after traveling ANYWHERE outside the US. Nor do I believe that mail, phone, or internet service should be able to contact people outside the US either. I've discussed that in the past. I understand and respct your POV. I donat agree with it, but I respect it. My question is simply how can we apply two sets of standards to similar situations? It's not as if we have a law prohibiting travel and commerce with Communist nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 My question is simply how can we apply two sets of standards to similar situations?It's not as if we have a law prohibiting travel and commerce with Communist nations. I agree that the dichotomy of the dual standards is a problem, Kilmer. The difference is that my solution is to ban any and all contact with China, not to allow contact with Cuba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I agree that the dichotomy of the dual standards is a problem, Kilmer. The difference is that my solution is to ban any and all contact with China, not to allow contact with Cuba. That's simply not going to happen under any circumstances. Why even suggest such non-possibilities? I agree with Obama/Richardson, we need to get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 That's simply not going to happen under any circumstances. Why even suggest such non-possibilities? Just because something would not be easy or likely doesn't make it impossible. Nor does it make it wrong. Most of the time doing the Right thing is difficult and requires sacrifices. I agree with Obama/Richardson, we need to get over it. Which is why you and I will never agree on anything MJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 The idea of legalizing marijuana is again a significant moral & ethical problem. We already have too many legal mood & mind altering chemicals allowed in this country. We definitely don't need any more. Need I say anything more? If I'm not hurting others what business is it of yours to tell me what I'm allowed to put in my body? My grandfather went to school in Cuba and I would love to visit the island. Please tell me a good reason why I should be arrested for doing so. Seems to me the only reason is so republican politicians can wins seats in south Florida every election cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 If they were pandering to cultural votes their stance would be the exact opposite. Exile cubans in Miami are right leaning specifically because of the GOP stance towards Cuba/Fidel Castro. While I'd agree that, If Obama were saying he advocated ending the "embargo" with Cuba, then his chances of winning Florida would be zero, that's not what he's proposing. He's not proposing allowing me to visit Cuba, he's proposing allowing Cuban-Americans only to visit Cuba. And I'd bet that that position will get him some votes. (Although I could be wrong.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 If I'm not hurting others what business is it of yours to tell me what I'm allowed to put in my body? I've discussed this innumerable times in the past, Duncan.... it's a matter of proper morals and values so far as I'm concerned. Do a quick search on the word "marijuana" and my user name and you'll find all you need to know on why I feel that way. My grandfather went to school in Cuba and I would love to visit the island. Please tell me a good reason why I should be arrested for doing so. Seems to me the only reason is so republican politicians can wins seats in south Florida every election cycle. How about because Socialism is a concept that I believe to have NO redeming values whatsoever, so there is nothing worthwhile to see or do there in my mind. How about because I believe in the concept of TOTAL isolationism, wherein if you were to leave the US for any reason other that military service during time of war you would not be allowed to return to the US, EVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Somewhat OT, but every time the subject of Cuban-Americans come up, there's a thought that comes up with it. My tinfoil-hat brother told me something a while back. Remember The Anthrax Scares? A reporter for a tabloid, a Congressman, and a Senator had envelopes of anthrax mailed to them. I think the reporter died. At least as far as what came out in the news, nobody ever claimed "credit" for the attacks. No motive given. And there was a lot of speculation: A tabloid reporter (from South Florida), and a Congressman (but not the Speaker), and a Senator (but not a really important one.) (Maybe 9/11 conditioned us to think that terrorists wanted Big Targets, but it didn't seem to make sense.) Well, my brother told me (about a week after the attacks happened, that he'd been reading on the net that there was at least one thing the Congressman and the Senator had in common. Both of them had, in the last year, sponsored legislation to end trade restrictions with Cuba. And the tabloid reporter had recently written a column disagreeing with the trade restrictions. According to my (tinfoil-hat) brother, the CIA has been providing aid to the folks in Miami who, among other things, fly airplanes from Florida to Cuba so they can drop anti-Castro leaflets (and other things) into Cuba. (Perhaps because the CIA thought that such an organization might be useful for other missions.) And the allegation was being made that the CIA had deliberately provided Anthrax to these groups, specifically so that it could be dropped over Cuba. (And that the Cubans had decided that they were more ticked at the reporter, Congressman, and Senator, instead.) My brother said (one week after the attacks) that the folks posting this information were predicting that the US would never officially figure out where the Anthrax came from or who was behind it, and that they'd simply wait for folks to lose interest in the only terrorist use of MWDs on US soil, and would simply let the story die. Because, supposedly, the US knew where it came from, and who was behind it, and the US knew that if they actually went after the folks who did it, it would come out that the US was knowingly providing WMDs to terrorists for use against another country. Now, admittedly, my brother believes a lot of weird stuff. And when he told me this, I don't think even he believed it. OTOH, when some goofball scientist with a goofball theory publicly says that "My theory says that, tomorrow, X will happen.", and tomorrow, X does happen, then IMO, the scientist's goofball theory suddenly becomes a lot more credible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 Larry, two senators: Leahy maybe not so important, but Daschle was then head of the Dems (either Minority leader or Majority Leader of Jeffords had switched yet)-pretty damn important. And Mass, stop pretending you hate socialism, when you espouse it. Forbidding free trade and mandating American made goods only is undeniably socialism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 And Mass, stop pretending you hate socialism, when you espouse it. Forbidding free trade and mandating American made goods only is undeniably socialism. Oh, I think the label "isolationism" fits better. (Although the label "suicidal" would fit, too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 Oh, I think the label "isolationism" fits better. (Although the label "suicidal" would fit, too.) Isolationism (from trade and the global markets)=socialism IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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