The Official Barry Bonds Home Run Record Poll

[rincewind]

Quiet you. You & your technicalities....

The reason to not think Arod was juicing is the fact that he's still doing the same thing he always has done.

The people to look at are the people whose power has deminished. Like say, I don't know, Miguel Tejada????

Quiet you...

More on A-Rod...

The guy hit 36 home runs his rookie year, so it's not like he suddenly had a power surge. He hasn't hit over 50 since 2002 - and that's with playing in Yankee Stadium. I also don't understand why when Cal hit 30 at the SS position, he was revolutionizing the position - when A-Rod hits 50, he's on the juice. :whoknows:

:finger:

[Bang]

Those photos of A-rod don't show me much of anything. In that first shot he's what, 19?

His size has increased, but not explosively. And as noted above, his game has remained consistent, not made giant leaps in production seemingly overnight.

I think calling into question ANYONE's size that has increased is rather stupid. But refusing to call into question a guy who's size has so drastically increased, and has distinct ties to people involved in steroids, like his friend from Balco, his personal trainer who has been implicated in supplying others with steroids.. a guy who has reportedly admitted to a grand jury that he 'unknowingly' used these drugs..

to nutshell it, a simple pair of pictures isn't enough. The circumstantial evidence surrounding Barry is pretty thick. To simply sit back and say "well prove everyone else is clean first" is childish in my book. To cast aspersion everywhere else simply to lessen the harsh light on your boy is pretty cheesy.

But hey. I understand that is the way of the world today.

~Bang

[jrockster21]

I also don't understand why when Cal hit 30 at the SS position, he was revolutionizing the position - when A-Rod hits 50, he's on the juice. :whoknows:

Because he's a Spankee.

[rincewind]

Because he's a Spankee.

Pretty much what I figured - and would expect from an O's fan. :nutkick:

[The Evil Genius]

If the evidence is so slam dunk, where are the indictments? No one seems to be able to answer that question - a damning one if there was ever one.

I acknowledge the justice system moves slowly...but this has been what...2-3 years of investigations? I thought the evidence was so blatantly obvious that no one could turn a blind eye to it...

Or is it?

[Mooka]

If the evidence is so slam dunk, where are the indictments? No one seems to be able to answer that question - a damning one if there was ever one.

I acknowledge the justice system moves slowly...but this has been what...2-3 years of investigations? I thought the evidence was so blatantly obvious that no one could turn a blind eye to it...

Or is it?

Well if Anderson had agreed to testify against Barry maybe they would've gone forward with an indictment. Instead Anderson opted for jail; twice.

[The Evil Genius]

Well if Anderson had agreed to testify against Barry maybe they would've gone forward with an indictment. Instead Anderson opted for jail; twice.

Are you suggesting that the Fed's entire case is based on his personal friend and trainer?

[praise_gibbs]

Whats the deal 'Booma? You only mentioned Arods head size once so far? :whoknows:

Barry is a douchebag first and foremost. Juice or no juice.. I still dislike him.

Now, for him to break such a prestigious record that held up for 33 years.. and act like you have never done anything to enhance yourself in the process to get there.. bothers me a great deal. As a baseball fan, I love to see records be broken. Witnessing them be broken.. is what makes sports so intriguing to not only the avid sports fan - but, to just about everybody. It receives air time on nearly every news station and whatnot. For the sake of the sport and the record, I would like to see Barry admit that he took advantage of baseballs lack of testing. Surely, it would be great for all players to do the same but, that is asking a lot.

Barry now holds the most prestigious record in all sports so, all of the eyes are on him. All of the blame of 'ruining such a great record' is on him. He should take it upon himself and admit that he enhanced his abilities by way of the clear. Apologize for that and my respect for him would go up a lot.

What pisses me off is because he acts like nothing happened. He acts like he got that big and nearly better with age because of strictly hard-work. We all know that is bull****.

If you are too pig-headed to admit your past mistakes.. and instead you walk around like everyone should be praising you because you got away with baseballs mistake of lack of testing.. is disgusting to say the least.

I guess that you can say my stance is this:

It doesn't bother me that much that he did take the clear. It is the fact that he shakes it off like it never happened. And continues to act like a douchebag.

P.S. Go AROD!

[DjTj]

What pisses me off is because he acts like nothing happened. He acts like he got that big and nearly better with age because of strictly hard-work. We all know that is bull****.

If you are too pig-headed to admit your past mistakes.. and instead you walk around like everyone should be praising you because you got away with baseballs mistake of lack of testing.. is disgusting to say the least.

I guess that you can say my stance is this:

It doesn't bother me that much that he did take the clear. It is the fact that he shakes it off like it never happened. And continues to act like a douchebag.

P.S. Go AROD!

I feel like Barry almost doesn't have a choice. Every once in a while, Giambi seems to come close to letting the cat out of the bag, but then it's like, "Jason, the Feds want to talk to you" and "Jason, Senator Mitchell wants to talk to you." Under those circumstances, Giambi doesn't want to say a damn thing - he doesn't want to be crucified and he certainly doesn't want to go to jail.

I don't know why we would expect anything else out of Barry when nobody else (except that douchebag Canseco) is really willing to lay themselves on the altar. I'm sure they've all convinced themselves that they didn't really do anything wrong ... baseball wasn't testing; they encouraged the big hitters; they're getting clean now ... Barry's the public face of this all, but just about every guilty player is doing the exact same thing.

[praise_gibbs]

I feel like Barry almost doesn't have a choice. Every once in a while, Giambi seems to come close to letting the cat out of the bag, but then it's like, "Jason, the Feds want to talk to you" and "Jason, Senator Mitchell wants to talk to you." Under those circumstances, Giambi doesn't want to say a damn thing - he doesn't want to be crucified and he certainly doesn't want to go to jail.

I don't know why we would expect anything else out of Barry when nobody else (except that douchebag Canseco) is really willing to lay themselves on the altar. I'm sure they've all convinced themselves that they didn't really do anything wrong ... baseball wasn't testing; they encouraged the big hitters; they're getting clean now ... Barry's the public face of this all, but just about every guilty player is doing the exact same thing.

However, most of the big hitters, that are obvious targets of enhancment, are out of baseball now. Bonds is one of the few left. The others, like McGwire, knew when the heat was coming and backed out. They tried to hide from it. Barry, seemed to decide to bask in getting away with it. And pushed to get this HR record if nothing else. Without knowing the exact details of McGwire etc etc and what he took and how often.. it would seem like he knew what he did was wrong-- not illegal under MLB rules but, still wrong.

Barry just seemed to not care.

Jason Giambi apologized. Why hasn't Bonds?

[DjTj]

However, most of the big hitters, that are obvious targets of enhancment, are out of baseball now. Bonds is one of the few left. The others, like McGwire, knew when the heat was coming and backed out. They tried to hide from it. Barry, seemed to decide to bask in getting away with it. And pushed to get this HR record if nothing else. Without knowing the exact details of McGwire etc etc and what he took and how often.. it would seem like he knew what he did was wrong-- not illegal under MLB rules but, still wrong.

Barry just seemed to not care.

Jason Giambi apologized. Why hasn't Bonds?

I think you're right that Bonds is an arrogant prick. He was like that with or without steroids with or without the record, so that's plenty of reason to hate him. I can understand not liking him for his personality, but I guess I'm just saying that it's not really enhanced because of steroids. The way he has handled the steroid issue is just an example of how much of a prick Barry can be.

Maybe it's better to hear players say they're sorry, but Giambi's apology was horribly awkward and not really very satisfying ... McGwire seems to show remorse, but he hasn't really admitted anything either. His retirement may have been due to health problems as much as anything else. Sosa has flown under the radar and, like Giambi, has come back and is actually having a pretty decent year in Texas. He just hit 600 and nobody complained. I feel like Barry hasn't really done anything that differently from the other players - he just happens to be an ******* about it, and he happens to have the biggest numbers, so he's easy to hate.

[Mooka]

Are you suggesting that the Fed's entire case is based on his personal friend and trainer?

Just suggesting the overwhelming evidence of Barry's guilt.

[praise_gibbs]

I think you're right that Bonds is an arrogant prick. He was like that with or without steroids with or without the record, so that's plenty of reason to hate him. I can understand not liking him for his personality, but I guess I'm just saying that it's not really enhanced because of steroids. The way he has handled the steroid issue is just an example of how much of a prick Barry can be.

Maybe it's better to hear players say they're sorry, but Giambi's apology was horribly awkward and not really very satisfying ... McGwire seems to show remorse, but he hasn't really admitted anything either. His retirement may have been due to health problems as much as anything else. Sosa has flown under the radar and, like Giambi, has come back and is actually having a pretty decent year in Texas. He just hit 600 and nobody complained. I feel like Barry hasn't really done anything that differently from the other players - he just happens to be an ******* about it, and he happens to have the biggest numbers, so he's easy to hate.

I agree.

I also think that you answered your own statement as to why nobody complained about Sosa hitting 600. He doesn't figuratively pound his chest with pride about the past. At the same time, he isn't a prick. I honestly believe that if Bonds would have taken a different stand on what happened, or atleast what everyone is claiming, that there would not have been as big of an uproar about this whole HR record. If he were to be a bit more humble about it and let things play out.. things would have been different.

IMO, he reaped what he sowed. He, what seems like, invited all of the criticism and 'hate'. Kinda begged for it because he feeds off it.

[Predicto]

I also think that you answered your own statement as to why nobody complained about Sosa hitting 600. He doesn't figuratively pound his chest with pride about the past. At the same time, he isn't a prick. I honestly believe that if Bonds would have taken a different stand on what happened, or atleast what everyone is claiming, that there would not have been as big of an uproar about this whole HR record. If he were to be a bit more humble about it and let things play out.. things would have been different.

IMO, he reaped what he sowed. He, what seems like, invited all of the criticism and 'hate'. Kinda begged for it because he feeds off it.

I think that is somewhat true.

Of course, Sosa isn't 1/10th the ball player that Bonds is either. He put up inflated numbers in perhaps the most hitter friendly ballpark in baseball and never did a thing besides swing for the fences. If Bonds had Sosa's plate discipline, he'd probably have 856 homers (and the Giants would have had about 150 more losses). If Sosa were breaking the record right now, it truly would be cheapened because he isn't worthy of carrying Hank Aaron's jock (much less Babe Ruth's). At least Bonds is the best player of this steroid generation.

[TheDoyler23]

Bonds put the ball over the fence. Roids helped no doubt, but it was BASEBALL'S FAILURE to keep the game reasonably clean that caused this.

Owners knew that the players wouldn't accept stiffer testing unless they gave something back in a collective bargaining agreement and didn't want that. Owners lined their pockets, providing the crowds with arena baseball, monster homeruns, higher scores and flame throwers.

Did Barry Bonds cheat? You betcha.

Do cheaters prosper? no doubt.

[hail2skins]

Bonds just put 757 over the fence in the 1st inning tonight................

[DieselPwr44]

If the allegations against Bonds are false, why doesn't he "lawyer up" and sue his accusers?

Maybe because there's something to it?

[edgun88]

Who cares. I hate basball anyway.

[EersSkins05]

A-Rod's rookie year: 1996

The summer of roids: 1998.

But it's crazy to think a 50-hr-a-year-SHORTSTOP is juicing... lol

Go A-Rod! Your pharmaceuticals aren't publicized, so we're behind you!

lol

[Spaceman Spiff]

The whole thing with Bonds is that it's damn hard for people after the age of 35 to put on as much muscle as he did, legally.

Clemens got fat.

A-Rod got muscle and filled out in his 20's.

Bonds got HUGE in his late 30's.

Have you seen anyone else do that before that wasn't on something illegal?

[rincewind]

A-Rod's rookie year: 1996

The summer of roids: 1998.

But it's crazy to think a 50-hr-a-year-SHORTSTOP is juicing... lol

Go A-Rod! Your pharmaceuticals aren't publicized, so we're behind you!

lol

Please read the below post again, specifically the last sentence...

More on A-Rod...

The guy hit 36 home runs his rookie year, so it's not like he suddenly had a power surge. He hasn't hit over 50 since 2002 - and that's with playing in Yankee Stadium. I also don't understand why when Cal hit 30 at the SS position, he was revolutionizing the position - when A-Rod hits 50, he's on the juice. :whoknows:

[jrockster21]

A-Rod's rookie year: 1996

The summer of roids: 1998.

But it's crazy to think a 50-hr-a-year-SHORTSTOP is juicing... lol

Go A-Rod! Your pharmaceuticals aren't publicized, so we're behind you!

You have to admit, rince, that there's a good chance ARod took steroids as well. The timing is correct, and he did get bigger.

Clemens got fat.

Oh come on, that's being a little disingenuous, isn't it? Clemens may have put on some fat, but he also put on a lot of muscle. He generally got thicker, not fatter.

[rincewind]

You have to admit, rince, that there's a good chance ARod took steroids as well. The timing is correct, and he did get bigger.

I'm not going to say he didn't, because I don't know. But the argument is pretty week. First, he came into the league at 18, of course he got bigger. As for the 50, well that's just a horrible argument unless you're willing to say Cal was juicing.

[jrockster21]

I'm not going to say he didn't, because I don't know. But the argument is pretty week. First, he came into the league at 18, of course he got bigger. As for the 50, well that's just a horrible argument unless you're willing to say Cal was juicing.

What does 50 home runs have to do with Cal? His highest total ever was his MVP season in 91 where he hit 34. :whoknows:

[rincewind]

What does 50 home runs have to do with Cal? His highest total ever was his MVP season in 91 where he hit 34. :whoknows:

What I said previously - why is it when Cal hits 30+ at SS he's 'revolutionizing' the position, but when A-Rod hits 50 it's because he's roiding? Why isn't he just viewed as further revolutionizing the position? The guy hits home runs, it's what he does.