megared Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 #1, it has been proven, he admitted to using roids. He's just never TESTED positive since the drugs he admitted to using were designed to be undetectable. Why people cant make that distinction, i have no idea.Anyways, thats not the point. Your point is about hypocracy. I think that if you dont believe at least 50% of all MLB used performance enhancing drugs, you are crazy. The fact though is there is more evidence against Bonds than anyone else, from his grand jury testimony, to his change in body type, to his documented affiliation with BALCO. Is it an air-tight case? No. Is it a really really good case with all signs pointing in the same direction? Yes. The problem is, this is an all-time record. He's not competing against clemons, hes competing against history, and he DOES have an unfair advantage over the earlier great long ball hitters. Imagine if Hank Aaron had roids available to him. Thats my issue. He may be playing on a level playing field with those he's competing against now, but he's not on a level playing field with the guys who his is passing on the All time homerun list. Does that make sense? :laugh: Did he really admit to using steroids? Really? By you saying it over & over again, does that make it true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Because he cheated.Because if he ever met you, he would rather spit on you than sign an autograph. Because he doesnt respect the earlier greats of the game. Because he goes out of his way to be a ******** to fans and the media. Funny. Just last night didn't he say he had nothing but respect for Hammerin' Hank? Isn't his godfather a certain Willie Mays? His father was no slouch in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 I wanted to say eff Barry Bonds, but I picked the asterisk because he had a hellava career before 1998. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Anti-Barry: His hat size allegedly went from 7 1/4 to 7 1/8 even with shaving his head. Wait, his head shrunk? On-Topic: Meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EersSkins05 Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Hypocrites KILL me.Sure, condemn Bonds, but let's assume big head Clemens is clean, just because he's Roger Clemens. It's amazing how many people condemn Bonds, but see nothing wrong with others using the juice, if Bonds even uses the juice. That STILL has not been proven, and that really gets the goat of all the Bonds haters. What? A pitcher on steroids? Who ever heard of such a silly thing? Everyone knows that Bonds was facing clean pitchers just like Aaron did, only Bonds used steroids to make himself better. Seriously- Comparing this era to Aaron's in any way is a joke. Weight training, "juiced" balls, expansion, specialized relievers, home run parks (although Barry CERTAINLY doesn't play in a home run park)... All Barry had to do was lift weights and he would have an advantage over what Aaron did. Back then, training was showing up, running, and drinking 8 beers after the game. All Barry had to do was take a supplement (legal or otherwise) and he would've had an advantage. I don't mind if people don't like Barry, or think that he's a drug user that shouldn't be appreciated. But please, keep your arguments consistent. It stands to reason that if Eric Gagne goes from an 88 mph fastball to a 101 mph fastball (and 90mph changeup) in the course of one offseason, he's going to be harder to hit than the same guy in Aaron's era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Sounds like Ted Williams. I would have gone with Ty Cobb personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted August 8, 2007 Author Share Posted August 8, 2007 Because he cheated. As KDawg pointed out, this is simply not true. Because he doesnt respect the earlier greats of the game. Everyone cheated. Yes, more than 50% of players were taking some sort of illegal substance. Baseball wasn't testing. Do you really think that nobody was doing anything, with ZERO tests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted August 8, 2007 Author Share Posted August 8, 2007 Wait, his head shrunk?On-Topic: Meh Whoops...good catch. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 As KDawg pointed out, this is simply not true.Everyone cheated. Yes, more than 50% of players were taking some sort of illegal substance. Baseball wasn't testing. Do you really think that nobody was doing anything, with ZERO tests? The not respecting the greats of the game comment was directed at his comments directed at Babe Ruth. Edit: And dont pretend like you know what % of players actually used. No one does. It certainly wasnt "everybody." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Show me a reason to believe he's not clean, and i'll stop rooting for him. Something like, oh, 3 shoe sizes worth of foot growth in the last 7 years. A couple hat sizes would be good too .~Bang Bang, there's no medical studies that've shown BALCO drugs do any of those things. Kelli White Dwain Chambers Bill Romanowski Tim Montgomery Marion Jones Did all of their head sizes/shoe sizes increase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EersSkins05 Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Bang: ARod during his rookie season: ARod now: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted August 8, 2007 Author Share Posted August 8, 2007 The not respecting the greats of the game comment was directed at his comments directed at Babe Ruth.Edit: And dont pretend like you know what % of players actually used. No one does. It certainly wasnt "everybody." Okay, "everybody" was exaggeration. But it was a high percentage. And notice I didn't say everyone took steroids, just that everyone took something illegal. ****, greenies are illegal now, and I bet 80%+ of pros took them. I'm not familiar with Bonds' comments about Ruth. What were they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EersSkins05 Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 The not respecting the greats of the game comment was directed at his comments directed at Babe Ruth.Edit: And dont pretend like you know what % of players actually used. No one does. It certainly wasnt "everybody." Well, admitted steroid user former baseball players (one of which is now dead- Caminiti) have all publicized around the 80-75% mark for guesses. You want the poster boy for steroid regeneration, again, look at The Rocket. He has basically the same career arc as Barry Bonds, only Barry was pretty much always that good, only with less power than he later showed. Clemens was considered washed up when he left Boston, went to Toronto and suddenly found some miracle training regimen and won 5 more Cy Youngs, performing better in his 40's than he did in his 20's. Same for Randy Johnson. Same for a host of relievers and closers. Again, the question that nobody will address: If you think that Barry Bonds is a cheater b/c he used HGH, do you also think that Aaron ever had to face a roided-up pitcher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 If you're going to point at pitchers like Clemens and Johnson for throwing hard at an advanced age, you have to include Nolan Ryan in your steroid conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 What? A pitcher on steroids? Who ever heard of such a silly thing? Everyone knows that Bonds was facing clean pitchers just like Aaron did, only Bonds used steroids to make himself better.. Actually you are wrong, many in MLB believe the pitchers were the big users of roids, and some feel up to 50% were juiced. There is a reason why have had so many elbow, and tommy john type injuries the last 10 years MLB is scared once someone gives up information on Clemens because anyone can gain 30'bs of muscle and 5 mph on your fastball after the age of 31 :doh: Look at his last pick with Boston and then his last pick with the Jays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reic Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Grats to Barry on hitting number 756, that is a lot of home runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Bang:ARod during his rookie season: ARod now: Gay Rod :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted August 8, 2007 Author Share Posted August 8, 2007 Actually you are wrong, many in MLB believe the pitchers were the big users of roids, and some feel up to 50% were juiced.There is a reason why have had so many elbow, and tommy john type injuries the last 10 years Turn up your sarcasm meter, boom. MLB is scared once someone gives up information on Clemens because anyone can gain 30'bs of muscle and 5 mph on your fastball after the age of 31 :doh:Look at his last pick with Boston and then his last pick with the Jays. His last pick? WTF are you talking about? Do you mean pitch? I'm confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Actually you are wrong, many in MLB believe the pitchers were the big users of roids, and some feel up to 50% were juiced.There is a reason why have had so many elbow, and tommy john type injuries the last 10 years MLB is scared once someone gives up information on Clemens because anyone can gain 30'bs of muscle and 5 mph on your fastball after the age of 31 :doh: Look at his last pick with Boston and then his last pick with the Jays. Time to replace your sarcasm detector J. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Turn up your sarcasm meter, boom. His last pick? WTF are you talking about? Do you mean pitch? I'm confused... pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Bang:ARod during his rookie season: ARod now: that doesn't prove much, A-Rod entered the league i think at the age of 18 or 19 at the absolute latest. of course he's goin to get bigger between the age of 18 and 31 thats not unusual as to say growing after you've reached the age of 35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EersSkins05 Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Hey, the guy grew a few sizes over the course of the years. Again, people are assuming that a 50-HOME-RUN-A-YEAR SHORTSTOP isn't juicing. Just wanted to make that clear. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Hey, the guy grew a few sizes over the course of the years. Again, people are assuming that a 50-HOME-RUN-A-YEAR SHORTSTOP isn't juicing. Just wanted to make that clear. lol Name one shortstop that has hit 50 home runs in the past 3 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 More on A-Rod... The guy hit 36 home runs his rookie year, so it's not like he suddenly had a power surge. He hasn't hit over 50 since 2002 - and that's with playing in Yankee Stadium. I also don't understand why when Cal hit 30 at the SS position, he was revolutionizing the position - when A-Rod hits 50, he's on the juice. :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidenreich Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Name one shortstop that has hit 50 home runs in the past 3 years.... Quiet you. You & your technicalities.... The reason to not think Arod was juicing is the fact that he's still doing the same thing he always has done. The people to look at are the people whose power has deminished. Like say, I don't know, Miguel Tejada???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.