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KC Joyners QB over/under rated


TonyRomoProBowl

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Against Jacksonville who did you think deserved the credit? Henry and his 37 total yds? Obviously not, this game was one because they were playing Garrard on his 2nd starting game and he played dumb throwing 3 int's maybe you didn't see any of them because you clearly don't pay any attention to Tennessee football but 2 of the 3 ints were just awfully thrown balls that even Roger would have caught. I keep trying to find this Houston game your talking about bud, and guess what you once again are just plain wrong.

Here are his #'s against Houston

7/15 87 yds 1 td, rushed 4 for 44 1 td

19/29 218 yds, rushed 7 for 86 and 1 td

So might I ask WHAT THE **** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

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Wow, I would say Tony Romo sits to pee is way overrated seeing how everyone thinks he is the next coming of Christ and is all in the news and tabloids, yet against our 28th ranked secondary he threw 2tds and 5 ints. I would say Campbell is underrated because no one talks about him in our division and he looked pretty good last year. Its always Romo sits to pee this, Eli that, Donovan splat.

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Despite what Bubba may say, IMO one of the best ways to judge a qb is by their W-L record. Look at every elite team in the NFL, with the exception of the chargers every single team had a proven qb, that is one of the best in the league.

look at every elite team, and you will also see that the QB had elite players around him to make him look good as well, or look at QB's who get a chance to play on a good team after playing on crappy teams, and see their w total increase..

QB is the most Dependant position is all of Sports, He has to have a OL block for him, receivers who can catch the ball, RB that can block, and run to take pressure of him and to use play action passes... and how many times have we seen a great offense never make it to the Super Bowl, or playoffs because the defense stunk, or lose games because the kicker wasn't that good... look at the Skins just a few years ago... how many games where lost under Turner because he couldn't find a decent kicker

there is a reason for the old coaching axiom that "defense wins championships"

don't get me wrong QB is the most important position in football, everything goes through him, and a bad QB can hurt a team more than any other position, but too many other factors contribute to a teams win to use W?L record as any indicator of how good a QB is

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ummm... the 21st ranked D just won the superbowl. Im gonna really go out on a limb here and think that it was because of their qb, or was it their running game which has already been proven that anyone can run when you have Peyton as your qb and field commander. But hey your right defense wins championships.

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ummm... the 21st ranked D just won the superbowl. Im gonna really go out on a limb here and think that it was because of their qb, or was it their running game which has already been proven that anyone can run when you have Peyton as your qb and field commander. But hey your right defense wins championships.

B,

Did you actually watch the SB? Their D was tenacious (tenacious D rules BTW!!!:laugh: ) when their injured starters came back. Why dont you do a search on the defensive rankings during the playoffs.

I did it for you.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2006/post?sort_col_1=4

NUMBER 1 RANKED DEFENSE IN THE PLAYOFFS!

Yes... even better than the Bears. the more you post, the more you make yourself look dumb. STOP. Its embarassing. God... you are such a punk its almost annoying... but fun, nonetheless to be able to make you look foolish so easily.

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Ok so that makes up for four of their games, and I did search that. And yes I did watch the superbowl the bears lost because they had absolutely no offense and a horrible qb. And I think you mean starter for the colts bud, Bob Sanders only one guy. Oh yea did you watch the rest of the playoffs and the 34-38 game with indy and NE, that was a real defensive game. Your arrogance makes you look stupid and the fact that you have to go as low as to call me a punk is almost amusing. I cannot wait til VY tears this season up and you can have your sig all off season haunting you day by day.

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Still pretty pathetic TRP tries to slam Campbell over the fact Romo sits to pee had a yards per attempt average of just two yards higher, and that he uses someone's stats that he constantly disagrees with.

And what does this mean exactly? Romo sits to pee is underrated because his reputation took a hit? Sounds like Joyner's the one taking hits. Romo sits to pee is enjoying his mini-celebrity status, and there are a couple crack heads who pick the Cowboys every year, who are doing the same this year. The only thing that has hurt Romo sits to pee's rep is his lousy ability to hold on to the ball. Oh, and Campbell had an attempt average of 6 yards, Romo sits to pee 8. Ooooh, that must mean Romo sits to pee is the next Marino, and Campbell the next leaf. Tr1 is right, pretty weak attempt.

And it is trolling when you make the thread title seem like Campbell is talked about, when he's barely mentioned. If you left JC out of the title, then TRP would be posting positives about the Cowboys, rather than trolling because he threw in a Skins player just to get people to look at his lame thread. Now start back-peddaling!

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ummm... the 21st ranked D just won the superbowl. Im gonna really go out on a limb here and think that it was because of their qb, or was it their running game which has already been proven that anyone can run when you have Peyton as your qb and field commander. But hey your right defense wins championships.

Did you actually watch the playoffs and Superbowl?

seriously, why did the Colts finally win a SB this season when Mannings numbers weren't that good as in years past? Maybe because Bob Sanders and the defense kicked ass in the playoffs? (BTW the Colts were #4 against the pass, and were horrible against the run until the playoffs)

speaking of Manning, his old man Archie was probable one of the five best QB's in the 70's, but he played on horrible teams, he has some great stats, but a terrible W/L record. He was so good he was the only player ever to win an MVP on a LOSING team

Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl... he a great QB?

guys like Neil O'Donnell, Craig Morton (twice), David Archer, Brad Johnson, Chris Chandler, Jeff Holsteler, all played in or won Super Bowls... I guess because of their gretaness?

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Lol and to say playoff defense numbers arent skewed some of these teams only play 1 game, real good way to get an average.

still doesn't change the fact the Colts defense stepped up in the playoffs, despite Peyton not having his typical type numbers.

and didn't Rex (I had a zero QBR game) Grossman lead the Bears to the Super Bowl? and his 3rd string backup Kyle Orton QB the bears to 10 wins his rookie season?

I am sure the bears defense had little to do win those wins :laugh:

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Peyton's numbers werent typical maybe but they were still elite. And the bears obviously are the exception look at the rest of the teams in the playoffs, plus the only reason bears got through the playoffs was because NO didn't show up. And though Peytons D may have stepped up, it wasn't like he wasn't still the field general and winning games for them. As for your previous post you named many qb's of years past, and guess what defense used to be able to win championships everyone knows this. However the game has changed and now if you can't score 20+ points a game you will not go far.

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Ok so that makes up for four of their games, and I did search that. And yes I did watch the superbowl the bears lost because they had absolutely no offense and a horrible qb.

How did they get there if their QB was so horrible? Doesn't that go against your theory. I mean, check out Grossman's winning percentage. :whoknows:

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In response to Riggo:

-Obviously every rb has something to do with their teams offensive production would I say he helped them alot, NO. The guy had 60 more yards then Betts did and he started all season, he is a descent back in the NFL nothing that great about him whatsoever. If you would like to continue this I will find the numbers, and make you look like a fool so stop now.

To Pro-Bowl: Despite what Bubba may say, IMO one of the best ways to judge a qb is by their W-L record. Look at every elite team in the NFL, with the exception of the chargers every single team had a proven qb, that is one of the best in the league.

I'm assuming the elite teams are the ones who made the playoffs last season.

Ravens: McNair

Chiefs: Trent Green

Bears: Rex Grossman

Cowboys: Tony Romo sits to pee

Eagles: Jeff Garcia

Giants: Eli Manning

Seahawks: Matt Hasslebeck

Now I know not all of those teams are elite, but it still holds true that defense and a smart QB win championships, not just an elite QB. The Colts are an exception, and even they were helped out tremendously by the return of Sanders thru the playoffs. A team that couldn't stop the run all of a sudden is stopping Larry Johnson and Jamal Lewis in the playoffs? Regardless the Colts playoff games were all close. The previous Superbowl winners were Steelers and Patriots. The losers the past 3 years are the Bears, Seahawks, and Eagles. All those teams had lights out defenses in their respective years. Of the 6 teams, only half had "elite QBs".

Also, Henry did help out the Titans, and without enjoying the great line that Betts has here. But now I see you've hijacked this thread into another "Vince Young is great" argument.

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I did a little research probably no correlation, but just take a second to think about it.

I looked at the top 5 qb's by passer rating for each of the past 3 years.

2004:

Manning

Culpepper

Brees

McNabb

Roethlisberger

-Everyone in playoffs McNabb in SB

2005:

Manning

Palmer

Roethlisberger

Hassleback

Bulger

-All in the playoffs, and two of them played each other in the SB

2006:

Manning

Huard

Brees

McNabb

Romo sits to pee

-Every team again in the playoffs, and yes I know McNabb didn't play all season long but he started with a bang. And once again you find the team that won the superbowl had a top 5 qb.

I understand I am a punk, I don't watch any football have no idea what I am talking about and am easy to prove wrong. So please let me know what is so skewed about these numbers and lets see the correlation.

I got bored so I continued, these are the Top Defenses for the past couple of seasons.

2006:

Baltimore

Jacksonville

Oakland

Miami

Chicago

-2 got to the playoffs, but Chicago was a fluke.

2005:

Tampa Bay

Chicago

Carolina

Pitt

Baltimore

-4 of the teams made it to the playoffs, 1 lost 1st round, 2 2nd round, and Pitt one it all but they also had the 3rd rated qb.

2004:

Pitt

Buffalo

Skins

Denver

Tampa

-Only two of these teams made it to the playoffs.

If you aren't seeing the correlation here, I guess this discussion is just over.

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Lol Elkabong, I didn't even start the talk about Vince but hey good try. As far as the qb's go yes majority of them are elite, Garcia was nasty last season. Romo sits to pee had elite games that got him there. Eli and Grossman are really the only two exceptions on that list, and that made the playoffs in the tough tough NFC.

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Against Jacksonville who did you think deserved the credit? Henry and his 37 total yds?

Not Vince Young - who "single handedly won" them 8 games!!

you didn't see any of them because you clearly don't pay any attention to Tennessee football but 2 of the 3 ints were just awfully thrown balls that even Roger would have caught.

So what does that have to do with Vince Young? Did he intercept those balls and return them for TDs? Or maybe, just maybe, Young got way too much credit last year?

I keep trying to find this Houston game your talking about bud, and guess what you once again are just plain wrong.

Here are his #'s against Houston

7/15 87 yds 1 td, rushed 4 for 44 1 td

Yes that one - the one where they put up 197 total yards. Did I studder? And these are great numbers for Fantays Football, but hardly "elite QB numbers"

Scouts Inc. Take on that game:

The Titans' victory over the Texans goes to prove that you can win in most every statistical category but still lose where it counts the most -- the score. Five turnovers for Houston, as compared to none by Tennessee, proved to be the most crucial stat of the game. Houston outgained the Titans 427 yards to just 197 yards in total offense. The Titans asked quarterback Vince Young (above) to not lose the game and he played a safe game, completing seven of 15 passes. Meanwhile, Houston quarterback David Carr threw one interception and fumbled twice, one being returned for a touchdown by defensive lineman Tony Brown. Tennessee's swarming defense was the difference, producing four sacks, two interceptions and recovering three fumbles.

So might I ask WHAT THE **** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Many people here are asking you the same quesiton!

So where are you making me look like a fool? I must have missed that part.

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Lol Elkabong, I didn't even start the talk about Vince but hey good try. As far as the qb's go yes majority of them are elite, Garcia was nasty last season. Romo sits to pee had elite games that got him there. Eli and Grossman are really the only two exceptions on that list, and that made the playoffs in the tough tough NFC.

LOL Mahoney, you're the one who keeps talking about Young, and not the thread topic at all.

A QB doesn't get to be elite after just one good season. You yourself just admitted there are exceptions though, which means you just proved yourself wrong. Thanks for making it easy. Now take a deep breathe, and realize you called Garcia and Romo sits to pee elite. McNair and Green aren't elite, but you ignored them.

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Lol Elkabong, I didn't even start the talk about Vince but hey good try. As far as the qb's go yes majority of them are elite, Garcia was nasty last season. Romo sits to pee had elite games that got him there. Eli and Grossman are really the only two exceptions on that list, and that made the playoffs in the tough tough NFC.

So, you're saying the Super Bowl participant was NOT an elite team?

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I did a little research probably no correlation, but just take a second to think about it.

I looked at the top 5 qb's by passer rating for each of the past 3 years.

2004:

Manning

Culpepper

Brees

McNabb

Roethlisberger

-Everyone in playoffs McNabb in SB

2005:

Manning

Palmer

Roethlisberger

Hassleback

Bulger

-All in the playoffs, and two of them played each other in the SB

2006:

Manning

Huard

Brees

McNabb

Romo sits to pee

-Every team again in the playoffs, and yes I know McNabb didn't play all season long but he started with a bang. And once again you find the team that won the superbowl had a top 5 qb.

I understand I am a punk, I don't watch any football have no idea what I am talking about and am easy to prove wrong. So please let me know what is so skewed about these numbers and lets see the correlation.

I got bored so I continued, these are the Top Defenses for the past couple of seasons.

2006:

Baltimore

Jacksonville

Oakland

Miami

Chicago

-2 got to the playoffs, but Chicago was a fluke.

2005:

Tampa Bay

Chicago

Carolina

Pitt

Baltimore

-4 of the teams made it to the playoffs, 1 lost 1st round, 2 2nd round, and Pitt one it all but they also had the 3rd rated qb.

2004:

Pitt

Buffalo

Skins

Denver

Tampa

-Only two of these teams made it to the playoffs.

If you aren't seeing the correlation here, I guess this discussion is just over.

Except all the teams who played in the Superbowl the past three years had great defenses their respective years, as was already pointed out earlier.

I like how you put your biased opinions in there, like Chicago was a fluke, and also put in facts that only represent your side of the argument, like pointing out how far teams didn't advance in only in the defense section, not the QB section.

Also, there was nothing good about Oakland in '06, their pass rush D was ok, that's it. The Rams didn't make the playoffs in '05.

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Usually thats what you did in an argument put in your opinion, I don't see you over there saying anything that isn't bias. And just so you know 21st ranked defense won the sb, this year, itwas the 3rd the year before that, and 9th year before that. The teams that lost the superbowl were ranked 5, 16, 11. Notice how the top qb's are all up there but many of the teams that make it to the playoffs and deep in the playoffs, have mediocre defenses.

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And to you Riggo, yes I am saying a team that played in the Superbowl was not an elite team. Would you like to make any sort of wager about the bears this season? Probably not but if you do I am up for the taking. There D is getting Briggs back they only lost Johnson, so you would assume this elite team will make it far again, or do you believe that their awful qb might prevent them from going far again thsi season.

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And Elkabong for the last time I did not bring up Young I defended him when someone else brought him up so drop the argument its pointless.

Edit: Funny how none of you have a response for the correlation between elite qb's and teams going far in the playoffs.

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Ok so that makes up for four of their games, and I did search that. And yes I did watch the superbowl the bears lost because they had absolutely no offense and a horrible qb. And I think you mean starter for the colts bud, Bob Sanders only one guy. Oh yea did you watch the rest of the playoffs and the 34-38 game with indy and NE, that was a real defensive game. Your arrogance makes you look stupid and the fact that you have to go as low as to call me a punk is almost amusing. I cannot wait til VY tears this season up and you can have your sig all off season haunting you day by day.

No haunting is going to happen to me buddy. Sorry for the punk comment, but you remind me of my younger brother(who is a punk, as much as I love him). You spit all this stuff out and (key word here) "think" you are right about everything you post.

I dont know if you caught a side by side comparison of the JC vs VY stats posted earlier on this thread, but in case you did not...

Dont bother trying to reason with BMahoney. He is blinded by love of VY. He will argue up and down how much of a talented QB he is because he "single handedly" took "the worst team in the NFL" to the playoffs almost (with an 8-8 record to boot. Wow... that team was awesome to go 8-8)

All the while, completley, disregarding the fact that he was...

26th in passing yards

61st in completion %

42nd in yards per game

22 in TD's

18th in interceptions

17th in getting sacked

25th in yards lost for sacks

53rd in passer rating.

Sure... he will tell you that he gets games won. He is a good runner. I think thats kind of hard to do "single handedly" with stats like that.

I have an avatar/sig bet on who will be the better QB in 07... Campbell vs. Young.

Just for good measure, here are Campbells stats to add insult to injury.

36th in passing yards

59th in completion %

30th in yards per game

28th in TD's

37th in interceptions

44th in getting sacked

41 in yards lost for sacks

33rd in passer rating

Campbell also played in 6 less games than Young.

All ratings are based on active QB's in the NFL (70 players total) for the 2006 season.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

BTW, by reading some of your posts, you dont seem to be much of a Redskin fan.

First there is the VY vs JC deal, then there was talk of the D. In this thread, you had a dis on Rogers catching INT's.

You must be a closet fan of some other team. I cant wait for you to eat crow...

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