KC Joyners QB over/under rated

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Aikman went to 6 pro bowls and these are his stats in those years:

Yr---gm--cp--att--%---yds-ypa- t--i

1991 12 237 363 65.3 2754 7.6 11 10

1992 16 302 473 63.8 3445 7.3 23 14

1993 14 271 392 69.1 3100 7.9 15 6

1994 14 233 361 64.5 2676 7.4 13 12

1995 16 280 432 64.8 3304 7.6 16 7

1996 15 296 465 63.7 3126 6.7 12 13

6 Pro Bowls, those are always decided before the seasons over so don't tell me it was his postseason excellence that got him the votes.

6 Years 6 Pro Bowls in a row and I bet that I could find QB's on **** teams that had those stats.

BTW, here are Steve Young's stats for the same 6 years on a team that didn't have the best OL in the league or Emmitt Smith.

1991 11 180 279 64.5 2517 9.0 17 8

1992 16 268 402 66.7 3465 8.6 25 7

1993 16 314 462 68.0 4023 8.7 29 16

1994 16 324 461 70.3 3969 8.6 35 10

1995 11 299 447 66.9 3200 7.2 20 11

1996 12 214 316 67.7 2410 7.6 14 6

Steve Young put up 2x the numbers but only made 5 Pro Bowls because Aikman's 1991 was better, or was it?

BTW here are Favre's 1994 stats when he DIDN'T go to the Pro Bowl but look at Aikmans numbers for that year and acknowledge.

1994 16 363 582 62.4 3882 6.7 33 14

what does that have to do with what you said, about Brunell???........in case you didnt know, Steve Young is in the HOF.

[SkinsFTW]

what does that have to do with what you said, about Brunell???........in case you didnt know, Steve Young is in the HOF.

You might want to check my post again.

BTW, Brunell never had Emmitt Smith, or the advantage of having a whole team signed at the start of free agency. Your teams 3 1990's SB's should be more than suspect compared to the Redskins Strike year wins. Your team lost on purpose in 1989 then built through the draft from 1989-1991 and with the Hershel Walker trade had a team with depth when everybody else had to deal with free agency for 2-3 years.

Then Aikman puts up garbage numbers from 1991-1996 and goes to the Pro Bowl each and every year, which also gets him a first ballot HOF. It is BS. Curtis Martin just retired and he deserves the HOF, IMO Aikman and Irvin don't.

[Passizle]

TonyRomoProTroll,

Just because Campbells name was mentioned to reflect an opinion about another quarterback, does not mean Campbell is over-rated himself. Does anywhere in the article (that no-one but insiders can read) state that Campbell is over rated?

[ThePreciating]

I can't tell you how sick I am of the term "metrics". Over the past six months the term has been discussed and argued in many way too threads. :doh:

Maybe it's just the word because it reminds me of school when they forced the metric system down our throats.

Hey man, I love the English system as much as anyone. But Mr. Metric was right when he created his system. The 10 base is so much easier than the 12 base. Centimeter, decimeter, meter, dekameter, hectometer all can be figured out from the words themselves. Good luck with inch, foot, yard, mile.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

You might want to check my post again.

BTW, Brunell never had Emmitt Smith, or the advantage of having a whole team signed at the start of free agency. Your teams 3 1990's SB's should be more than suspect compared to the Redskins Strike year wins. Your team lost on purpose in 1989 then built through the draft from 1989-1991 and with the Hershel Walker trade had a team with depth when everybody else had to deal with free agency for 2-3 years.

Then Aikman puts up garbage numbers from 1991-1996 and goes to the Pro Bowl each and every year, which also gets him a first ballot HOF. It is BS. Curtis Martin just retired and he deserves the HOF, IMO Aikman and Irvin don't.

you said

Which brings me to a new Troy Aikman thread I need to start. That dude went to the Pro Bowl in years where he truely sucked. Brunell in 05 outshines every single Aikman year.

in which I replied

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: pricless!!!!!!!!

in which you replied

Aikman went to 6 pro bowls and these are his stats in those years:

Yr---gm--cp--att--%---yds-ypa- t--i

1991 12 237 363 65.3 2754 7.6 11 10

1992 16 302 473 63.8 3445 7.3 23 14

1993 14 271 392 69.1 3100 7.9 15 6

1994 14 233 361 64.5 2676 7.4 13 12

1995 16 280 432 64.8 3304 7.6 16 7

1996 15 296 465 63.7 3126 6.7 12 13

6 Pro Bowls, those are always decided before the seasons over so don't tell me it was his postseason excellence that got him the votes.

6 Years 6 Pro Bowls in a row and I bet that I could find QB's on **** teams that had those stats.

BTW, here are Steve Young's stats for the same 6 years on a team that didn't have the best OL in the league or Emmitt Smith.

1991 11 180 279 64.5 2517 9.0 17 8

1992 16 268 402 66.7 3465 8.6 25 7

1993 16 314 462 68.0 4023 8.7 29 16

1994 16 324 461 70.3 3969 8.6 35 10

1995 11 299 447 66.9 3200 7.2 20 11

1996 12 214 316 67.7 2410 7.6 14 6

Steve Young put up 2x the numbers but only made 5 Pro Bowls because Aikman's 1991 was better, or was it?

BTW here are Favre's 1994 stats when he DIDN'T go to the Pro Bowl but look at Aikmans numbers for that year and acknowledge.

1994 16 363 582 62.4 3882 6.7 33 14

:whoknows:

[TonyRomoProBowl]

TonyRomoProTroll,

Just because Campbells name was mentioned to reflect an opinion about another quarterback, does not mean Campbell is over-rated himself. Does anywhere in the article (that no-one but insiders can read) state that Campbell is over rated?

no! Thats why i said "mentioned"...He is not over rated by KC nor (as a Dallas fan) Do i think he is over rated. I was just showing the mention of his metrics being so bad and in the catogory with Farve and Frye....

[Riggo#44]

no! Thats why i said "mentioned"...He is not over rated by KC nor (as a Dallas fan) Do i think he is over rated. I was just showing the mention of his metrics being so bad and in the catogory with Farve and Frye....

...and Vince Young, but he's not overrated is he? He's only on the cover of Madden.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

...and Vince Young, but he's not overrated is he? He's only on the cover of Madden.

so the pro bowl means nothing, but the cover of Madden...thats superstar status right there:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Vince young is over rated by the way. When its all said and done, Campbell may just be a better QB then Young, yet he is perched up like he was some kind of phenom (sp?)

[jrockster21]

9 fumbles in 10 games.

0-1 in playoff games.

0-1 against the 2nd worst team in the NFL last season.

0-1 against the Skins.

Nuff' said.

[Riggo#44]

so the pro bowl means nothing, but the cover of Madden...thats superstar status right there:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Vince young is over rated by the way. When its all said and done, Campbell may just be a better QB then Young, yet he is perched up like he was some kind of phenom (sp?)

No the Pro Bowl means nothing - only Cowboys fans still think it has any value or any indication fo a players worth.

The cover of Madden is typically for the most hyped player from the previous year. And Young, like Vick before him, did nothing to really deserve it.

[skinsngibbs4life]

so the pro bowl means nothing, but the cover of Madden...thats superstar status right there:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Vince young is over rated by the way. When its all said and done, Campbell may just be a better QB then Young, yet he is perched up like he was some kind of phenom (sp?)

yeah, he only took one of the least talented teams in football and led them to 8 wins in a tough afc

[BMahoney]

Wow since when is VY overrated? He won the Natl Champ going in as a complete under dog. He started his 1st season 3rd game of his NFL career, and took an awful Tennessee Titans team into playoff contention. He is on the cover of madden because he was incredible last year, and Im sure with the rumor of the injury numerous higher profile players would not agree to be on the cover, purely on superstition and that they don't need anymore fame or money.

[shagman]

Romo sits to pee underrated? He has to be the most overrated QB for how little he has done.

DING, DING, DING, its settled!

To compare Jason Campbell with Brett Favre is ridiculous. This whole article sucks. There are many other factors that go into the mathmatics than the ones provided. The fact is, Tony Romo sits to pee and Jason Campbell have yet to be fully tested. Time will tell with both of them. The whole thing about TR being underrated though????? WHAT? He was in the limelight more than any other QB than I can remember without even accomplishing anything even before he botched a snap to lose in the playoffs.

[Riggo#44]

Wow since when is VY overrated? He won the Natl Champ going in as a complete under dog. He started his 1st season 3rd game of his NFL career, and took an awful Tennessee Titans team into playoff contention. He is on the cover of madden because he was incredible last year, and Im sure with the rumor of the injury numerous higher profile players would not agree to be on the cover, purely on superstition and that they don't need anymore fame or money.

Yeah, and Travis Henry had nothing to do with that...

Michael Vick has played in the NFC Championship game, I wouldn't say he was the reason they were there, would you?

[TonyRomoProBowl]

yeah, he only took one of the least talented teams in football and led them to 8 wins in a tough afc

words of the oh so popular Bubba from ES...Win/Loss record, is the WORST stat to judge a QB.

[BMahoney]

In response to Riggo:

-Obviously every rb has something to do with their teams offensive production would I say he helped them alot, NO. The guy had 60 more yards then Betts did and he started all season, he is a descent back in the NFL nothing that great about him whatsoever. If you would like to continue this I will find the numbers, and make you look like a fool so stop now.

To Pro-Bowl: Despite what Bubba may say, IMO one of the best ways to judge a qb is by their W-L record. Look at every elite team in the NFL, with the exception of the chargers every single team had a proven qb, that is one of the best in the league.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

To Pro-Bowl: Despite what Bubba may say, IMO one of the best ways to judge a qb is by their W-L record. Look at every elite team in the NFL, with the exception of the chargers every single team had a proven qb, that is one of the best in the league.

I tend to agree with Bubba on that one......Both Dallas and Washington's QB (Rom & Campbell) would have a better W/L record, if their Def. didnt let them down so much!

[pointyfootball]

I'm sorry...I can't keep up.

Did someone really just say that Brunell in 05 was better than any of Aikman's seasons? I hate the cowboys and even if I were high as a kite I don't think I could come up with a statement like that.

[Passizle]

Yeah, and Travis Henry had nothing to do with that...

Michael Vick has played in the NFC Championship game, I wouldn't say he was the reason they were there, would you?

Dont bother trying to reason with BMahoney. He is blinded by love of VY. He will argue up and down how much of a talented QB he is because he "single handedly" took "the worst team in the NFL" to the playoffs almost (with an 8-8 record to boot. Wow... that team was awesome to go 8-8)

All the while, completley, disregarding the fact that he was...

26th in passing yards

61st in completion %

42nd in yards per game

22 in TD's

18th in interceptions

17th in getting sacked

25th in yards lost for sacks

53rd in passer rating.

Sure... he will tell you that he gets games won. He is a good runner. I think thats kind of hard to do "single handedly" with stats like that.

I have an avatar/sig bet on who will be the better QB in 07... Campbell vs. Young.

Just for good measure, here are Campbells stats to add insult to injury.

36th in passing yards

59th in completion %

30th in yards per game

28th in TD's

37th in interceptions

44th in getting sacked

41 in yards lost for sacks

33rd in passer rating

Campbell also played in 6 less games than Young.

All ratings are based on active QB's in the NFL (70 players total) for the 2006 season.

[BMahoney]

Of course anyone could have a better w/l record if their D played better, but a qb has more control of the game then any other player on the field. He is pretty much the field general, so if he excels so will his team. Thats why you find qb's with horrible defenses who still do incredible (Manning), or Qb's who can pretty much compete passes to any receiver in the NFL (Brady).

[doncherry]

Favre will be a first ballot HOFer, and he was never very good. He was coached for several years by Holmgren and his minions but besides those years Favre has been just a guy who plays hard and makes a lot of dumb mistakes. He has put up great numbers with average receivers, but he was never elite like Marino or Elway.

Which brings me to a new Troy Aikman thread I need to start. That dude went to the Pro Bowl in years where he truely sucked. Brunell in 05 outshines every single Aikman year.

This is, top to bottom, one of the most moronic posts i have ever read here, and that says A LOT.

[BMahoney]

I said he led the team yes, would you rather me say it was their rb who had 7 total TD's and 60 more yards then Betts. Or was it their 32nd ranked defense that took them there, I mean cmon all I said was the qb of a team led them to 8-8, really not very far fetched.

[Riggo#44]

In response to Riggo:

-Obviously every rb has something to do with their teams offensive production would I say he helped them alot, NO. The guy had 60 more yards then Betts did and he started all season, he is a descent back in the NFL nothing that great about him whatsoever. If you would like to continue this I will find the numbers, and make you look like a fool so stop now.

You go ahead, get your numbers there chief. Be my guest. :laugh:

Fact is he's a rookie QB, with a 50% completion percentage, and a very high INT%, backed by a strong running game, he piloted the 30th ranked passing game. He made a lot of plays, and won some games - with his legs - as does Vick.

Young might be a very good QB. But what has he done in the NFL to warrant the praise he's been given?

To Pro-Bowl: Despite what Bubba may say, IMO one of the best ways to judge a qb is by their W-L record. Look at every elite team in the NFL, with the exception of the chargers every single team had a proven qb, that is one of the best in the league.

You mean like Chicago? :laugh:

What about Cincinatti (with Palmer) or St. Louis (with Bulger) both finished 8-8 and missed the playoffs? :laugh:

Seattle made the NFC title game despite Hassleback being largely ineffective and hurt.

Baltimore won 13 games with a very average Steve McNair. Would you call Jeff Garcia elite?

[BMahoney]

your 1st point that Henry was so good and led them:

Henry ran for 1211 yards with an avg of 4.5 scoring 7 TD's. Wow do you really consider those good RB numbers. Oh btw Betts was 60 yds shy of beating Henry in rushing yards and VY scored as many rushing TD's as he did.

To your second point:

-The bears an elite team in the NFL you are a joke, the only reason they made it to the playoffs was because of Grossman at the beginning of the season and because of who they play maybe you didn't see their schedule bud. Who do they play um green bay twice minnesota oh yea and detroit

-Bengals again maybe look at who they have to play thoughout the season bud, its harder to make it to the playoffs when your playing PIT, NE, IND, BAL, DEN, KC, NO.

-Bulger I guess there are exceptions for everything.

-Wow if you don't understand that Steve Macnair is a proven vet that can get wins your just dumb

-No Jeff Garcia is not elite... did he play elite in Philly for the end of the season, **** yea he did and please disagree with that to show us how truly moronic you can be.

[Riggo#44]

Of course anyone could have a better w/l record if their D played better, but a qb has more control of the game then any other player on the field. He is pretty much the field general, so if he excels so will his team. Thats why you find qb's with horrible defenses who still do incredible (Manning), or Qb's who can pretty much compete passes to any receiver in the NFL (Brady).

QB's get an inordinate amount of credit and in equally inordinate amount of blame. You mean to tell me Young "single handedly" beat Jacksonville while putting up 98 total yards and 3 offensive points? Or Houston with 197 total yards and 14 points on fumble and INT returns?