Why does the GW D Scheme Kill Takeaways?

[Skins PR]

There's absolutely such a thing and the poster was saying that we would occasionally employ a 4-6 type set-up .. not that we used it as our primary set.

No there isn't. It's a 46... not a 4-6.

[cphil006]

Its not his scheme per say as it is the players. We lose Antonio Pierce, that hurt. Champ Bailey hurt. His scheme may be a reason, but not the main one. Sean Taylor has been doing his share in the forced fumble category.

[dockeryfan]

Two things.

1) McD5 brings up a very good point.

Gregg W is not just a ballbuster, he seems to motivate in a very negative way.

Parcells is a ballbuster.

Even Gibbs is very demanding in what he expects.

But they know how to motivate men. Extremely well.

Every thing I hear about Williams is the exact opposite.

So you get players that just get fed up being treated like kids.

What happens then?

Anonymous sources leaking to the press last year.

Archuletta not being spoken to by Williams for a good portion of the year. What kind of management is that? If you have an employee that just doesn't get it, you have to keep attempting to connect with him. 60 seconds is enough to let that guy know you are at least trying to support him. Hell you picked him, you can't throw him to the curb that quickly.

I hope to GOD that Williams can learn how to motivate by being around Gibbs, but I have major doubts.

2) DL is a dead thing people. He just values other positions more. He will always get the Joe Salave'as of the world...players who look like they are on the downside of their career and get a great year from them.

Wish all you want for the big name DL, you just will not get him with Williams. He'll always make a move for a Michael Barrow or Archuletta or a London Fletcher before he chooses DL.

[Passizle]

There's no such thing as a 4-6 and we don't run a 46.

You ever see the ESPN commercial for ESPN news? Yeah... You should watch that real quick like.

If you have not, go here and you will know what I am talking about.

gotta love youtube!

[grego]

i know i get flamed for saying shawn springs isnt that great, but he has forced 2 turnovers in the past 2 seasons. i know INTs isnt a great stat to judge corners by, but those are awful numbers for a #1 corner. he should be producing more picks than that and he doesnt. turnovers are the most important stat for a defense because they completely negate any offensive drive.

i actually have liked springs alot- when he's on the field anyhow.

its nice to have alot of INT's from your #1 CB, but it doesnt always work out that way. if there's a lesser CB you can exploit, you dont throw much at the #1.

terence newman is supposed to be one of the best, but has 4 picks over his last 32 games cuz henry gets much more action.

[NewCliche21]

In late 2005, didn't they start working on tip drills in practice and our takeaway rate shot up compared to weeks prior?

Great thread! I don't understand how takeaways can't be that much of a concern. To me, the goal of every single person on that field, offense or defense, should be to score a touchdown. I don't care if you're in a prevent defense and up forty points on the last play of the game, you still want that turnover and you want to bring it in for six. I don't see how any player can be satisfied just swatting the ball away.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

i actually have liked springs alot- when he's on the field anyhow.

its nice to have alot of INT's from your #1 CB, but it doesnt always work out that way. if there's a lesser CB you can exploit, you dont throw much at the #1.

terence newman is supposed to be one of the best, but has 4 picks over his last 32 games cuz henry gets much more action.

but the fact he has 1 pick per year for the past 2 seasons is not good. and hes not dropping picks like rogers does. springs is never in position for interceptions, and spare me the "teams stay away from him" business. teams stay away from champ bailey and he managed 10 picks, springs has plenty balls thrown his way.

[dfbovey]

It's a somewhat faulty scheme. A team that can generate a pass rush with it's front 4 can cause more turnovers. If you have to rely on using your playmakers from the back 7 to create pressure, you take them out of their natural position where they could clean up on errant throws caused by the front 4.

I believe that the Greg Blache coached Bears defense had the same exact issue.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

It's a somewhat faulty scheme. A team that can generate a pass rush with it's front 4 can cause more turnovers. If you have to rely on using your playmakers to create pressure, you take them out of their naturalt position where they could clean up on errant throws caused by the front 4.

I believe that the Greg Blache coached Bears defense had the same exact issue.

exactly what i posted on the previous page. when you rely on guys from the back 7 to come up to the line to create pressure, you take them out of coverage which drastically limits your turnover capability.

[Peregrine]

Couple of very good posts in here. Many people can have an immediate impact, but it takes someone a bit more special to have a long lasting impact. If players dont respect you, they wont give it their all. If players have that respect, when they fail, they will bust their butt to make it right.

Management is management is management. The NFL is no different. Tom Coughlin is a good example of a coach players respected, until they found out more about him. Hopefully that wont be GW.

[daveakl]

You ever see the ESPN commercial for ESPN news? Yeah... You should watch that real quick like.

If you have not, go here and you will know what I am talking about.

gotta love youtube!

Ok, let's get this cleared up real fast.

The 46 defense was named after safty Doug Plank who played for the Bears when Buddy Ryan was there. He named it 46 because his legend was that he would never learn the names of players, just their numbers. 46 was a safty and the "46" defense is when you play 8 men in the box. Thus, when playing a 46 defense #46, the safty, was put in the box to help stop the run. So, there is such thing as a 46 defense, but it is no different than anything teams run where they bring a safty into the box. The reason the Bears ran it so well was that they had very athletic lineman that could drop into coverage and let the LB's or CB's blitz. We have run this type of system in the past when we would bring the CB's and have D-lineman drop 5 yards off.

[Vladimir L]

Last year was a fluke due to injuries mostly.

Like it was said before Carlos Roger & Sean Taylor cant cover all the other guys. The inside tackles were injured they dont provide much pressure but have been solid with stopping the run in the past. Our linebackers aside from Washington werent very talented. Lemar is solid and Holdman sleeps on the field. Our untalented and talented linebackers were injured. Spring also was injured mostly through out the year. Having Arch didnt help I dont think hes ever had more than 3 INTS in a season.

Injuries will do this to a defense. Players play and you need talent on the field.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Last year was a fluke due to injuries mostly.

Like it was said before Carlos Roger & Sean Taylor cant cover all the other guys. The inside tackles were injured they dont provide much pressure but have been solid with stopping the run in the past. Our linebackers aside from Washington werent very talented. Lemar is solid and Holdman sleeps on the field. Our untalented and talented linebackers were injured. Spring also was injured mostly through out the year. Having Arch didnt help I dont think hes ever had more than 3 INTS in a season.

Injuries will do this to a defense. Players play and you need talent on the field.

but injuries happen every year and need to be accounted for, especially injuries to our older players (which is 90% of the injuries we had last year). is it a complete shock that every injury problem on our defense affected players 30 or older? these types of nagging injuries on old players dont go away, they compound, and if we dont start using the draft to bring in younger guys who can be decent in spelling efforts, were gonna be in real trouble very quickly.

[Morneblade]

I think that the best way to force turnovers is apply pressure. That's pretty obvious. However, last year, when we couldn't apply any pressure with 4 down linemen and had to send extra blitzers we didn't have the balance you need. I'm talking about the balance between players that are blitzing and players that are covering. If you have Champ Bailey and Nate Clements opposite each other, then you can usually count on those two receivers being locked down and you can send extra blitzers. However, when you have CR and SS, when you send blitzers (Lamar, Warrick, and Marcus, AA, or ST) you are going to have problems in coverage. When we get a good balance of blitzers and pass defenders and have the ability to mix the defense up more, then turnovers will come.

Or just get it done with a front 4 that can do it on it's own, without NEEDING to blitz all the time to get said pressure. Like GOOD defenses do.

[Morneblade]

but injuries happen every year and need to be accounted for, especially injuries to our older players (which is 90% of the injuries we had last year). is it a complete shock that every injury problem on our defense affected players 30 or older? these types of nagging injuries on old players dont go away, they compound, and if we dont start using the draft to bring in younger guys who can be decent in spelling efforts, were gonna be in real trouble very quickly.

Quoted for truth.

And the fact that it should be obvious.

[dfbovey]

Injuries play their part, but people seem to forget that we had guys like Rufus Brown starting at corner for us in previous years due to injury.

I think that there were definitely many key factors in the fall of our defense last year.

1- Loss of key talent catching up with us. Lavar, Pierce, Clark, Smoot

2- Not effectively filling those spots... Archuleta, Marshall's inconsistant play at MLB, Holdman replacing Lavar.

3- Injuries and aging players in key spots. Eroding skills. Springs, Daniels, Salavea

4- All of the above contributed to a watered down scheme, where GW was basically neutered and untrusting of his players to execute.

5- Without the injuries and when the team was running it's scheme without hinderance... the blitzes were not effective. Teams seemed to have figured it out.

[dfbovey]

but injuries happen every year and need to be accounted for, especially injuries to our older players (which is 90% of the injuries we had last year). is it a complete shock that every injury problem on our defense affected players 30 or older? these types of nagging injuries on old players dont go away, they compound, and if we dont start using the draft to bring in younger guys who can be decent in spelling efforts, were gonna be in real trouble very quickly.

True, when this defense was hitting on all cylanders... I believe we had injuries to our secondary where guys like Rufus Brown were starting and playing well for us. I think it's things like that which gave Williams a little bit of an ego... thinking players were interchangable in his system.

[jrfriedm]

There's absolutely such a thing and the poster was saying that we would occasionally employ a 4-6 type set-up .. not that we used it as our primary set.

:doh: You will never, ever see an NFL defense run a 4-6 (four down linemen and SIX linebackers). NEVER. A coach would have to be stupid to even consider using such a thing.

[TheDoyler23]

It seemed like our D forced a bunch of fumbles that went right back to the opposing offense, but that happens to everybody besides Brunell (His fumbles result in other team's TD's).

INT's happen when you upset the timing of the opposing offense, be that a solid pass rush, a jam or WR's at the line, or safety coverage that forces WR's to break/change their routes.

Opposing offenses have time, they have all the options available. If you limit them, the QB has to make a progressively better play to gain yardage and the D must capitalize on mistakes.

We didn't force enough mistakes and we didn't capitalize on the ones we did.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

:doh: You will never, ever see an NFL defense run a 4-6 (four down linemen and SIX linebackers). NEVER. A coach would have to be stupid to even consider using such a thing.

no, but a 46 is 4 downlineman, 3 linebackers, 2 corners, and a saftey, all up on the line and in the box.

[Beer is Food]

If the D-line can pressure with out help from blitz, then there would be more turnovers.

[NewCliche21]

no, but a 46 is 4 downlineman, 3 linebackers, 2 corners, and a saftey, all up on the line and in the box.

BLC > jfriedm

[daveakl]

no, but a 46 is 4 downlineman, 3 linebackers, 2 corners, and a saftey, all up on the line and in the box.

Not really. A 46 defense is just bringing the safty into the box and putting 8 there.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Not really. A 46 defense is just bringing the safty into the box and putting 8 there.

.....how is that different than what i said? haha

[jrfriedm]

no, but a 46 is 4 downlineman, 3 linebackers, 2 corners, and a saftey, all up on the line and in the box.

Right, but that is different than a 4-6. The 46 defense was actually named after the Bears strong saftey who wore #46, I can't remember his name, but 46 doesn't discribe the type of postitions on the field rather that players own defense.