Six years later 9/11

[Burgold]

I'm sure this thread will be taken the wrong way, but for some reason this thought is pressing on my mind this morning.

Do you think that the events of 9/11/2001 were historical or the marking of a new era? The first tremendous wave of patriotism that swept through this nation has subsided back into its usual selfish norms. The world unity (at least in rhetoric) has been long buried. The determination to find and destroy terrorism anywhere and everywhen seems forgotten. 9/11 still has tremendous resonance for most of us. We can recall that day vividly and it stirs our emotions, but has that day marked a change, a change in era?

Pearl Harbor began a new era and launched a new period of American history. Kennedy's assasination was a horrific point in our history, but I don't think it became symbolic of a new era beginning. Watergate, on the other hand, I think marked a new era, a new level of cynicism and distrust. Even Monica's red dress actually came to symbolize the start of a new era of unparalleled partisan goonery and stupidity.

9/11's legacy seems to be Iraq right now or it seems to be fading. If 9/11 has a carryover impact to the culture in its vigilance, in its economy, in its personality I can't quite see it. That may be because I'm living in it and can't see it. 9/11 should have marked a profound turning point. Has it? Is it? Or have we all reverted to the same habits and same patterns as before where those events are not pivotal, merely horrible.

It's strange, but reading this over is making my eyes water.

[The 12th Commandment]

I think it was/is a turning point in world history more than just American history. As much as I hate the thought, I believe it is a clash of cultures.

My guess is that the clash of cultures isn't going to be a crusade like war, it's going to be manifested ultimately by our developing the technology to replace fossil fuels. That's going to be one the biggest turning points ever.

[Kosher Ham]

I thought Monica had a Blue dress.

Not to take away from your thread though.

You say yourself that its basically the same as it was before, so why ask ?

Personally I dont see it as a new era so much. I see it as a more distrusting and overly protective (at times) nation at this point.

[Burgold]

That would be a good and profound change to have occurred out of tragedy. The only reason I can't see that right now is that I haven't seen the fierce mobilization of energy and thought towards that end. We're just nipping at the corners of it. When Sputnik was launched and the U.S. saw that... the race was on. It was an era change, there were huge dramatic shifts in education, money, the space race, etc.

[Burgold]

I thought Monica had a Blue dress.

I think you're right, but poetically the woman in the red dress has so much more flare

The reason I posted this is because sometimes its nice to be proven wrong. That's what I'm hoping for in this thread. KAO's thought is a very interesting long term result whose origion could be traced back to 9/11.

[twa]

"The determination to find and destroy terrorism anywhere and everywhen seems forgotten. "

I believe too many focus on Iraq and are not even aware of the resources and effort being put into the worldwide effort against terrorism.

Other than to condemn the kidnappings of course

A decent way to stay informed.

http://counterterrorismblog.org/

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Personally, I think that the events of Spetember 11th, 2001 have touched off a number of changes in American and world culture. The biggest and most obvious changes coming in America, but there have been changes overseas as well.

I think the biggest thing that has changed due to September 11th is a great widening of the gap between the two ends of the political spectrum here in the United States. Obviously there have always been major differences and disagreements between those two philosophies, but I really think that the last six years has seen a deepening schism that I don't believe can be breached, even if either side were truly interested in doing so; which they're not.

I also beleive that September 11th has caused a widening of the gap between Americans and foreigners on several levels. The biggest gap coming in the areas of trust and respect; where large groups on both sides no longer seem interested in trusting or respecting one another. Another part of this would be the 'Fortress America' and 'America First' concepts that some Americans have bought into over the last six years.

Lastly (for now anyway), I think that the entire mentality of how to deal with terrorism, both here in the United States and abroad has changed. We've seen airline passengers re-take planes from terrorists. We've seen the American government (and to a smaller degree the international community) stop taking terrorists and terrorist governments lightly, and being more willing to work (socio-economically and militarilly) against those groups.

Where will we be in another seven months when the actual anniversary comes around... who knows. The situation is very fluid at the moment. Many things are likely to change in that period of time. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Jaded-Dragon]

Strangely enough, after 9/11 I thought I saw something really beautiful happening in this country. There were flags flying high, politicians rallying together, the few moments of leadership that GW showed at ground zero.

All that went away very quickly though. Are we back to being the selfish beings we were before 9/11? For the most part I think we have reverted back to that form. We could of used 9/11 as an oppurtunity to to unite all of our allies, but we didn't even try. Insetad we alienated ourselves from the rest of the world.

Well, that's the way I feel anyway.:2cents:

[Burgold]

I think the biggest thing that has changed due to September 11th is a great widening of the gap between the two ends of the political spectrum here in the United States. Obviously there have always been major differences and disagreements between those two philosophies, but I really think that the last six years has seen a deepening schism that I don't believe can be breached, even if either side were truly interested in doing so; which they're not.

.

I think this rift really began during the Clinton years, with the Budget showdown that wound up causing Washington to close down, with the endless -gates and probably most symbolized by the "blue" dress. I think that era began than. The dems were no better when President Bush took over, especially since he was elected under such a controversial cloud. 9/11 didn't really excerbate it... I do think Iraq's aftermath did, because too many D's and R's are afraid of looking bad.

[The 12th Commandment]

I think twa is right to a point. There are a lot of little victories that we don't know about or that the gov doesn't tout publicly. I would expect no less from our leaders than to increase the level of protection for us at home and they've seemingly done a good job of that.

The other side of the coin, internationally, I'd say their decisions have made us less safe. It's hard not to pay too much attention to Iraq. A tremendous amount of our resources are being consumed there. I don't believe they are deriving the benefit that that level of commitment should. But Mass was right, only time will tell.

[twa]

Quote

""I think twa is right to a point."" :doh: :laugh:

I think too many are not aware of all the operations we have going( of course secrecy is partly to blame).

How many are aware of AZTEC or these?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/oef-chad.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/oef-ts.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/tscti.htm

I could go on and on, but everyone focuses on Iraq.

[Burgold]

But do these little victories represent a turning point, a change in conciousness, conscience, or way of being... Counterterrorism has been operating forever. I think a change in era is more defined by its cultural impact or economic impact. I will say, I was a bit nervous at the beginning with the Stallinist approach of "The state is more important than your parents, your friends... Any words that are against the state must be reported to the state. Any disagreement with the state is a sign of terrorism" that was beginning to germinate around the time of the Patriot Act.

(the above quote is an exaggeration)

[The 12th Commandment]

Quote

""I think twa is right to a point."" :doh: :laugh:

mad props.

[twa]

But do these little victories represent a turning point, a change in conciousness, conscience, or way of being... Counterterrorism has been operating forever. I think a change in era is more defined by its cultural impact or economic impact. I will say, I was a bit nervous at the beginning with the Stallinist approach of "The state is more important than your parents, your friends... Any words that are against the state must be reported to the state. Any disagreement with the state is a sign of terrorism" that was beginning to germinate around the time of the Patriot Act.

(the above quote is an exaggeration)

The "change "to me(and one I applaud) was going from treating it as as law enforcement issue to a true security issue and aggressively attacking it on multiple levels.

Your "exaggeration" is amusing, IF true 3/4 of this board would be under watch...Or are we? :paranoid:

[Burgold]

Burgold has been arrested and taken to a... Forget what you just read this is Burgold, this is not a NSA monitoring agent... keep talking... no one is listening.

[The Rook]

Not so much of a new era, but a downward spiral of malaise. Our dependency on oil continues, the morphing of the two parties into PR agencies, the wrong military response in the wrong place, the loss of civil liberties, and so on. Many people react with resignation to situations they would have felt intolerable in the past.

Hmm … didn’t mean this to be so morose.

:helmet:

[TradeTheBeal!]

Many of you are in a severe state of denial. 9/11 is the greatest act of treason and subversion of liberty in the history of the USA, if not mankind. Love your citizens, love your country, distrust those who steal power and point their fingers.

Boxcutters, my ass!

[Seabee1973]

I think you're right, but poetically the woman in the red dress has so much more flare

The reason I posted this is because sometimes its nice to be proven wrong. That's what I'm hoping for in this thread. KAO's thought is a very interesting long term result whose origion could be traced back to 9/11.

her dress did have some white in it :laugh:

[elkabong82]

I'm going to get blasted for this...

Anything positive that the American culture learned/gained from 9/11 was destroyed by the Bush administration and partisan politics from BOTH sides of the party spectrum. People were actually united as one for a while after 9/11, but the Katrina debacle and mindless issues (such as gay marriage and darwinism) have re-divided everyone into blue vs. red, coastal vs. middle America.

Almost the entire world sympathized with us after the attacks. We could have used that as a means for new levels of intercontinental prosperity and cooperation. Instead we go falling head first into a war for very questionable reasons, and subsequently everyone turns against us. Just like w/ the American people, a major opportunity to advance peace and unity was destroyed by one groups actions, and another groups' lack of action.

I remember a couple months after 9/11 I was up in New York. I was stuck on a bridge w/ a whole lot of other people. We were jammed up because everyone was pulled over allowing all the cleanup trucks from the WTC site to get through. We were all cheering them on and applauding. I have never witnessed first hand such overwhelming unity and brotherhood in my life.

The Bush administration was given one of the greatest opportunities in history to unite this country and finally make people see past race, sex, etc. Instead, they catered to their own special interest groups, and divided the people through stupid and menial issues as a way to distract and ensure their own people gained positions in office, and used the Iraq war to label disseneters as "unpatriotic". These moronic, juvenile games they played turned Americans against each other once again. Instead of black vs. white, it was red vs. blue.

The democrats were no better in any of this. They were so afraid of being unpopular, they sat back and did nothing as our culture continued to slip. The Iraq war is still a hot issue, and the only excuse the Dems who voted for the war have is that they were "tricked." Idiots like Hillary Clinton are so caught up in the high school clique that is now US politics, they can't even admit they were wrong for fear of losing voters. How the hell do you get "tricked" into voting for a war? Easy, when you're scared of losing your own power and fail to realize just how serious of an action war is.

9/11 did mark the begining of a new era, but only time will tell exactly what that new era is. One thing is for certain, this is a much different world since the attacks. Hopefully the next leaders can do things to remind us of the unity we all felt five years ago, and won't be as eager to divide us in order to distract and gain power.